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Author Topic: Leopard Geckos! -A bit of help? *UPDATE*  (Read 1001 times)
Rodent
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« on: July 19, 2008, 12:15:34 AM »

I recently started researching Leos (I've researched them before, but I started again today) and they seem like great reptile pets. I love lizards, and I used to have them, and now I miss them. I'll admit I didn't do my best with my anoles, but I plan to do MUCH better if I am allowed to get a Leo. I was going to get a few female bettas (I read in several places they did well together) in a ten gallon tank, but then I thought a Leo would be a bit more fun and interactive.
I'm going to need to convince my mom a little more, and hopefully break her down like I did with my ratties.  Blue Dumbo Smile
I figured some people on the forum must have some Leos, and I'd like a bit of help from you all to make sure I have my facts straight and don't mess up. I actually love doing research for pets that I may potentially get. It makes me feel better when I have them.

Alrighty, on to questions!

1. Housing - Is a 10 gallon enough for one? I would plan on eventually getting a 20 gallon, and my birthday is in September, so...  Cheeky

2. Substrate - Could I use paper as substrate for juveniles? And I also saw that sand with finer particals is okay for adults, but I'm a bit worried on this. I know with Bearded Dragons, sand really isn't good no matter the age, and compaction can also occur with leapard geckos. Would it be best to stick with paper towels?

3. Lighting/Heat - If I only have a mesh top lid, what would I be able to do to make sure the gecko would get the proper amount of heat/lighting? I know they are nocturnal, and UV lights aren't necessary. Could I use a lamp with a special bulb and put it over the top on their basking spot? Should heat pads only be used if there is no lighting at the top? I'd also appreciate information on good brands of these supplies, and what is the best way to go.

4. Hidey places - I know there should be a dry hide out, and a humid hideout. Where should each of these be placed relative to the light/heat?

5. Food/Vitamins - I plan on using crickets as a main diet, but I will also suppliment it with other things such as mealworms and waxworms(As a treat of course, since they are high in fat.) Do I need to gutload all of the food, or just the main diet with is crickets? I'd figure I need to to all, but I want to make sure. Is there a good brand of gutloading food sold in petstores, or could I make my own and use stuff such as fish food? (The feeders will also be fed veggies/apples to give them the water, and also benefit the leo with extra vitamins... Right?) And when dusting the food, I think I should do it one to two times a week. What are some good vitamin powders that I can use?
And for the calcium in a dish in the cage that can be available to the leo at all times, and good brands?

6. Handling - I read that the younger ones are more jumpy and skittish, and tend to hiss and run. I will try the hand-in-tank for a few minutes each day, and also try to hand feed them tasty treats, like the waxworm. When they get older and tolerate a bit more handling, do they ever just mind sitting with you will you do things? How long could they stay out of their cage without getting too cold?

Okay, I think that is it. I'm really sorry it's so long! I really want to do this right and provide a great home.  Smiley ANY help is greatly appreciated; I'd love all the advice I can get. Thanks in advanced!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 07:11:57 PM by Rodent » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2008, 12:56:28 AM »

Quote
1. Housing - Is a 10 gallon enough for one? I would plan on eventually getting a 20 gallon, and my birthday is in September, so...
Yes, a ten gallon is enough space for one. I prefer a twenty though, because it gives them a little more space, and it's easier to find room for all their hides. If I were you, I would do the ten if you were getting a baby, and then move up to the twenty as it gets bigger.

Quote
2. Substrate - Could I use paper as substrate for juveniles? And I also saw that sand with finer particals is okay for adults, but I'm a bit worried on this. I know with Bearded Dragons, sand really isn't good no matter the age, and compaction can also occur with leapard geckos. Would it be best to stick with paper towels?
Paper and paper towels work as a substrate, they just aren't very pretty.  Wink I am also paranoid about the sand...no matter how old the rep is, so I vote no on that one. My personal favorite reptile substrate is shelf liner. It's cheap and easy to clean. And it comes in cool colors! Reptile carpet, which you can buy at pet stores also works well.

Quote
3. Lighting/Heat - If I only have a mesh top lid, what would I be able to do to make sure the gecko would get the proper amount of heat/lighting? I know they are nocturnal, and UV lights aren't necessary. Could I use a lamp with a special bulb and put it over the top on their basking spot? Should heat pads only be used if there is no lighting at the top? I'd also appreciate information on good brands of these supplies, and what is the best way to go.
Monitoring heat is hard to do in a ten gallon because it's so small. You need to have a hot and a cool side, and with lights on a ten gallon, sometimes the whole thing ends up being hot.  Tongue I haven't used a ten gallon in forever...so I'm racking my brain to try and figure out the wattage you'd want to use... I think 50-60 watt should be good. Get a DIGITAL thermometer to make sure the temps are correct. ((Do this all BEFORE bringing leo home)) Digital thermometers are much better than the other kind, because they are much more acurate, and you can move the probe to different parts of the tank to record different temps. When it comes to brands of lights...I can' think of any I didn't like. Just make sure you getting on that says "basking" or "spot light". You want one that will focus on the basking area. You can use either lamp or heat pad, but both may make it too hot. Also keep in mind that burns sometimes happen with pads, so you have to be careful to make sure the floor isn't too hot. Reptiles don't have very good feeling on their tummies and will burn themselves easily. You also need some way to elevate the tank with heat pads so there's airflow under the pad.

Quote
4. Hidey places - I know there should be a dry hide out, and a humid hideout. Where should each of these be placed relative to the light/heat?
I prefer three hide outs. One dry on the cool side, one dry on the hot side, and one humid on the dry side. As long as you have atleast one that is right under the basking lamp so he can get closer to the light if he wants to.

Quote
5. Food/Vitamins - I plan on using crickets as a main diet, but I will also suppliment it with other things such as mealworms and waxworms(As a treat of course, since they are high in fat.) Do I need to gutload all of the food, or just the main diet with is crickets? I'd figure I need to to all, but I want to make sure. Is there a good brand of gutloading food sold in petstores, or could I make my own and use stuff such as fish food? (The feeders will also be fed veggies/apples to give them the water, and also benefit the leo with extra vitamins... Right?) And when dusting the food, I think I should do it one to two times a week. What are some good vitamin powders that I can use?
And for the calcium in a dish in the cage that can be available to the leo at all times, and good brands?
Be careful with the mealworms and waxworms. Make them only a TREAT, because leos easily get addicted to these tastey worms and wont eat anything else.  Tongue As long as the worms are just treats, I would only worry about gutloading the crickets.

Quote
6. Handling - I read that the younger ones are more jumpy and skittish, and tend to hiss and run. I will try the hand-in-tank for a few minutes each day, and also try to hand feed them tasty treats, like the waxworm. When they get older and tolerate a bit more handling, do they ever just mind sitting with you will you do things? How long could they stay out of their cage without getting too cold?
When you have your hand in the tank, be careful about how you go about it. Try to go sideways instead of coming down on them. Your hand coming strait at them is threatening, because their natural predators are birds. As they get older, they usually calm down A LOT and become very docile and easy to handle. Some leos will chill in your lap, but some just want to run away. As long as the temp in your house isn't below 60 farenheight, they should be fine to stay out for a bit.

Good luck! Grin
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2008, 01:29:24 AM »

Thank you so much!  Grin

Yes, I only plan on making the worms treats. Would once a week be okay? More, less?

I'll probably end up starting with a juvenile, so that should work out. He/she can stay in the 10 gallon until I can get a bigger tank. Like ratties, bigger is better, right?

A lamp may be what I go for; I'll get a digital thermometer before I get the leo to make the temperatures are good. On the dry side of the tank, what should the temperature range be, and what about for the cool side?
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 03:05:58 PM »

My leopard gecko's tank has slate tiles in the bottom. They help with the under-the-tank heater to distribute the heat on the warm side, and they stay nice and cool on the cool side. Easy to wash up with an old toothbrush and some water, and they look great:)

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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2008, 09:21:11 PM »

Nice set-up!
I love the stairs. Are they glued, and does your gecko use them?

And, does the heat pad stick to the bottom of the tank and you just prop of the tank to allow air flow, or does it sit on the ground and the heat generates upwards?
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2008, 03:22:20 AM »

I keep leopard geckos, and this year started breeding them.  I've hatched out like 5 of them so far.  I keep them in a rack system in large sterilite tubs.

First off, leopard geckos are much easier to keep than anoles, in my opinion.  They need heat but do NOT need UV light like anoles do.  Leopard geckos do just fine on belly heat from an Under Tank Heater, which can be controlled with a lamp dimmer or a low cost reptile thermostat.  Do NOT use a UTH without anything to regulate it, as they get far too hot without a thermostat or dimmer to control them.

If you are dead set on a lamp, I'd look into a ceramic heating element.  What I don;t like about lamps is that they use FAR more electricity and thus more  $$$ than a UTH.  A typical small UTH uses maybe 8-10 watts, while the smallest lamp is usually 60 watts.  Lamps also dry out the air so keeping a decent humidity level can be an issue

Not sure about waxworms but a lot of breeders feed them exclusively on gutloaded mealworms and they do fine.  Mine are on mostly mealworms with dubia feeder roaches about 1/2 the time.

Sand is NOT safe, paper towel is fine, i use it on babies through adults.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 03:39:25 AM by Willard » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2008, 03:51:05 AM »

After reading a bit more and looking at setups that people have, I decided a heat pad would be better. My mom would be glad to know that it would cost less in the long run, 

I will probably use paper towels at the start, but I think the slate Lindsay posted looks nice, and she said it works well. I'll have to search for that somewhere.

Also... If I use paper towels, and have an UTH, should I layer them on the hot side to make sure it doesn't make the bottom super hot and burn the gecko?

Waxworms would just be a treat that I'd feed it 1-2 times a week, because I know they contain a high amount of fat. I think I will feed both mealworms and crickets as a main diet.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 03:53:54 AM by Rodent » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2008, 03:13:31 PM »

No need for extra layers on the warm side, as it should be regulated with a lamp dimmer or a thermostat (ZooMed 500R sold online for $22.99 plus shipping).  You'll also need a digital thermometer with a wired probe so you can put the probe right on the glass over the UTH to keep track of the exact temperature at the warmest spot.  You want the warm side about 90-92 for leopard geckos.

With the thermostat above set properly it will keep it in a range from about 89-92 which is fine.   A lamp dimmer is cheaper, about $9, but you will have to check and adjust it every time your room temperature changes.


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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2008, 03:20:37 PM »

Okay. I think I'll get a lamp dimmer, seeing as it's cheaper. I don't mind checking it to see if it's the right temperature.
How do I connect the lamp dimmer to the UTH? Is it difficult?

Where is the best place to get one of those digital thermometers for a reasonable price? Again, sorry for a million questions.  Embarrassed
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2008, 03:32:36 PM »

The lamp dimmer works just like with a lamp.  You plug the lamp dimmer cord into the socket and plug the under tank heater into the lamp dimmer socket.  There is a dial or slider to adjust the temp up and down.  Using the digital thermometer with the probe right on the glass over the UTH, make small adjustments and then allow time for the temp to stabilize at the desired temp.  I would say 90 with a lamp dimmer to allow room in either direction.

Walmart sells the lamp dimmer and digital indoor/outdoor thermometer, both in the electrical hardware dept, NOT pet dept.   The thermometer is from "Accurite" and should be $11.88, with wired probe, 2 temp display and humidity display.  They used to have several models, but seem to have phased most of them out for the wireless models, which do not work for this type of application.  You want the corded , pre-made lamp dimmer and not the kind that's put in a wall.

Put the probe on the warm side glass right over the UTH and stand the unit on the cool side.  "Indoor" temp is cool side, "outdoor" temp is warm side and you will have the proper humidity reading.  The humidity sensor is in the unit so its better to put it inside the enclosure.  Don't let it get wet though.

There are other types of wired probe digital thermometers sold for the pet trade that will work as well.  A basic one with just the probe and one temp reading that can be mounted outside the tank goes for $5-$7 online, maybe $8 at PetSmart.


http://www.reptiledirect.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1141&HS=1


http://www.reptiledirect.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=112


http://www.reptiledirect.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=594

There are cheaper heat mats but this brand is the best, and they don't get as hot, allegedly.

The ZooMed Thermostat is a good reliable low cost option, I have a bunch of them.  I use one for my homemade incubator that hatches my leopard geckos.  I got 2 on clearance from Petco for $5 each last year.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 03:45:03 PM by Willard » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2008, 05:52:24 PM »

I use mealworms as my leopard geckos' staple food.  They rarely get crickets anymore- they're very bad at catching them  Roll Eyes
I would offer waxworms less often than once or twice a week...they're very addicting.
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2008, 07:17:41 PM »

Thanks so much, Willard! I'll be sure to look into it all.

I have an update, and I'm SO HAPPY! Since my birthday is in September, my mom said I could get the whole set-up with the gecko for my birthday, so now I won't have to pay for everything on my own. But, I am going to save up my own money for a 20 gallon tank so my gecko can have a nice tank from the start. Besides, it'll give more rooms for proper hides and give it extra walking/hunting room. Since I'll be getting the tank myself, my mom can pay for things like the heat pad and other accessories.  Blue Dumbo Smile

Star - Hmm, maybe once every two weeks then?
I'll try mealworms and crickets. If you pull off two of a cricket's legs, they shouldn't go so fast. xD What is good for gutloading mealworms?
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 06:04:25 AM »

I'd recommend getting the tank and heat set up well before you get the leopard gecko, so you can get the thermostat set uop and adjusted to the proper temperature.

As for the leo itself, check for local breeders or even those that can ship to you,  A local reptile show would be a good place as well.  Pet shops would be the last choice, unless you know of a really good one.
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2008, 10:22:57 AM »

Nice set-up!
I love the stairs. Are they glued, and does your gecko use them?

And, does the heat pad stick to the bottom of the tank and you just prop of the tank to allow air flow, or does it sit on the ground and the heat generates upwards?

Yes, the stairs are glued together with hot glue and then the underside was also sealed with some silicone so I wouldn't have to worry about them coming apart. They have yet to do so. Pixel uses the stairs when she climbs up, sometimes for down, but other times she just slides off the top level on her belly. LOL

The under-the-tank heater sticks to the bottom of the tank. I have the tank propped up a little so that the cord can dangle without the weight of the tank resting on it... this also gives some air flow underneath.
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 12:26:21 PM »

Willard - That's what I was thinking of doing. I have plenty of time to get things set up.
And I will do that. I'd rather get a gecko from a breeder, or possibly reptile show, knowing that they are probably healthier than the ones in the petstore.

Lindsay - Heehee!

Alrighty then, I shall prop it up to allow air flow. ^^
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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2008, 06:00:53 PM »

Just thought I'd add a hint for saving $$. Try lawn and garden type stores for live mealworms, some sell them for bird feeders. One near me sells cans of 500 live worms for $10 and they keep forever in the fridge. Let a few molt and you'll have darkling beetles, another crunchy treat different from what you normally get to feed reptiles. I think a good spirulina fish food would be ok for gut-loading. Spirulina is like the super food of all super foods as far as nutrients go.
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2008, 08:59:11 PM »

Thank you, Mousie!
I'll see if I have a garden store near that may sell mealworms.

And I will also get some Spirulina fish food.
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2008, 08:26:31 AM »

I started with 50 or so mealworms and started my own mealworm colony/culture. At one point I had many thousands of mealworms.   Unfortunately I let the colonies mostly die out so now I'm waiting on my last 30 to start breeding again.

Anyway, it's really worth it to "grow" your own mealworms, and pretty cheap and easy to do.
2 or 3  $1 shoebox sized sterilite tubs will provide plenty of space to do it.   They do take some time to get started so, if allowed, you might want to look into starting them now so you have a good practically free food source when you get your gecko.

If you stick to purchasing them and refrigerate them, just make sure to keep some out at room temperature and fed a good food source 24 hrs prior to feeding them to your leopard gecko.  Feeding them right out of the fridge will result in much less nutritious mealworms and will lead to health problems.

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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2008, 10:50:58 PM »

I think I may want to try and breed crickets and mealworms.

I'll definately get started a bit before getting my gecko to make sure the food source is all healthy for him when he gets here.
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« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2008, 08:14:09 AM »

Crickets are much more difficult to breed than mealworms.   For mealworms all you need is the food/substrate and a piece of carrot or potato for a moisture source.   Crickets need the proper moist environment to lay and incubate their eggs,  Probably a heat source as well.  I had zero luck breeding crickets.  Plus they stink and are noisy.
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2008, 10:08:11 AM »

Oh, hmm. Well, that's no good. I guess I will just have to stick to buying them then.
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