"Raw" diet

[swedish_massage13]

I was told by a friend of mine to research the "raw" diet before getting a ferret. Has anyone heard anything about it? Also, I have found a type of organic dog food at our local Whole Foods Market. It looks almost like the frozen sausage tubes that you can get and contains stuff like beef, liver, chicken, and whole eggs. Would that be a decent food for a ferret? My final question (for now at least) is... I have given all of my pets something called Brewer's Garlic and Yeast pills, which are an OTC that cause fleas and ticks to stay away from your pets. All of my dogs and cats have been on them... Would it be okay for a ferret as well?

~Holly

swedish_massage13@yahoo.com

[Pink]

I don't know much about ferrets, but I do make my four cat's food.  Just google raw diet, or BARF (biologically appropriate raw food).  If you have a yahoo account theres a great group called RawPaws that has a lot of ferret owners who would know a lot about raw diets, and possible commercial versions of them.

I would be extremely nervous feeding garlic to a dog, and would recomend IMMEDIATELY stopping the pills for any cats.  Garlic is of the onion family, which causes animals to go anemic.  Dogs are large enough that they can safely handle a small amount of garlic, but cats are not.  They can die from this, but I'm more immediately worried about all the health problems that anemia can cause, which could end up costing a lot in vet bills for you.  There are other ways to keep ticks and fleas off, namely a proper diet.

Pink

[KillerTheTurtle]

The problem with Raw diets for ferrets is the bacteria. Not because it will hurt them, but you would most likely have to wash their paws after and wash out their bowls and wherever they carry the food. The bacteria, if left uncleaned wit soap and water, will spread and possibly harm you or your pets. Unless you get a ferret (very rare) that is not messy at all and does not carry food around.
Also, dog kibble is not suitable for ferrets. There is not enough protien or any taurine. I feed mine California Natural cat food. It is all human grade and ranks as one of the top ten pet foods every year. http://www.naturapet.com/
With the supplement, I doubt you could even get a ferret to eat that pill. In the event of fleas, you could use Frontline SPRAY, not the applicator.
Read Ferret for Dummies. It explains diet and the raw diet, fleas and everything else.

[Pink]

I completely disagree with you killer.  If bacteria in raw meat was going to kill ferrets from infection they would have died off as a species long before now.  Our animal's systems evolved to handle the food they ate, for both ferrets and cats this is meat.  I don't have running water, and yet I have a clean six year record of feeding my cats raw.  If there was a sanitation nightmare, it would be my siltation, but the vast majority of Americans have running water so its not difficult to wash out the dish after your done using it.  I would be more concerned about the fact it would be difficult giving ferrets the amount of meals they need in a day, as I have heard they need food constantly.  I do not know that for sure, and wouldn't rely on it.  If the ferret did carry food around something as simple as feeding them small, frequent amounts of ground food would finish that.  Its hard to carry around and deposit ground meat.  If they still insisted, kennel feed them.  One of our four cats gets a slightly different diet, and is consequently fed in his kennel.  he loves his kennel, and completely relates it with food, so it is a very positive experience with him.

Does frontline spray have the same chemicals as the ones applied to the neck?  I would also be very nervous about using that, in my opinion anything strong enough to immediately kill things on our pets bodies shouldn't be in their bloodstream.  I don't have any experience with fleas or ticks as we don't have them in Alaska but from what I've heard on RawPaws people who feed their pets good diets don't normally have to deal with them as much.  In the wild its really only the sick who have troubles from parasites, the healthy ones may have a couple, but won't have health consequences from them.

Pink

[KillerTheTurtle]

You are right Pink -
I guess I was picturing my ferrets, in their set up, in my room eating the raw diet. They would carry it all over the carpet, leave bits, etc. And I don't mean bacteria from fresh raw meat, I meant bacteria from the raw meat that my ferrets would leave under the bed (and who knows how long it would be there) and the bacteria that could grow in the carpet. Mine take kibble and run all over the place with it and all I have is carpet. I honestly am all for the raw diet, especially for cats and dogs, I guess I just imagined all the horrible things my ferrets would do with raw meat if they were not enclosed.
I apologize for not thinking of the other options for feeding raw (in kennels, etc).
I was told by a vet that the Frontline Spray was fine; it does not stay in the system like that applicator does. Mine have never had fleas, so I do not have personal experience with it.

[Pink]

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh killer, most people are never willing to listen and you get a bit tired of that after awhile.  I've had vets act as if I am trying to kill my cats by making them a raw diet.  I know what I do is right, it saved one of my cats lives and stopped all the food allergies my other one had before I tried the diet.  Some cats do great on canned, I know that too as one of mine doesn't handle raw and I don't know why.  He's amazing with high quality canned though.

My roommate has two ferrets, so I know how they have to stash everything, especially shoes.  My 8 rats clean up any food stashes real quick, so its not much of a problem.

I've never used any type of flea or tick protection, as we do not need it in Alaska (I used to volunteer full time at a cat shelter with over 400 in a warehouse type room, we were extremely thankful that we only needed to deal with ear mites).  I'm just repeating what I have heard other cat owners say.  I cringe at saying that, being a scientist myself, but at lot of these people have a lot of practical experience, and it makes sense biologically.

Pink

[nakedrats]

I just got my 2nd ferret and I'm looking to start raw feeding.  My ferret has insulinoma and carbs are especially bad for her.  Raw feeding is great for preventing conditions like insulinoma by never overloading the ferret's system with carbs in the first place.  I'm on the NaturalFerrets yahoo group, which is devoted solely to raw feeding ferrets.

As far as messiness, my cats are far messier.  They've  been all raw for 3 months now and my feral kitty absolutely loves to pick up her meal and relocate it to somewhere "more convenient" to eat it.  It's really not a disaster because animals are habitual.  She's got 2 places she takes it, so if I'm missing one of the bone shafts, I know to look in the back of the hallway or under the dining room table.  For a ferret, I'd guess it'd be pretty similar.  I only had my new fuzzy for a week and a half and I already know that the crocheted eggs belong in the ferret playhouse.  My last ferret stored her toys in the fleece tent, in the green livingroom chair, or under the ottoman.  If I wanted some toys, I always knew where to go.  I'm planning on feeding inside the cage to make sure she gets to eat her own food, so the options should be pretty limited as far as stashing spots.  Also, if you are feeding the right amounts, there should be little left over to clean up.  If you feed edible-sized bones, they should eat the entire thing.  My cats eat drumsticks and will leave only the bone shaft (middle part missing the two soft rounded ends).

For food selection, I'd stick with intact meat on the bone.  Chewing up meat and bones cleans the teeth and prevents gulping.  It's also more sanitary.  Ground meat has mixed any surface bacteria into the inside of the meat, as well as exposing the nutrients to air.  I buy meat suitable for human consumption and rinse it with warm water before feeding. You also have to be worried about the contents unless you grind it yourself.  Dog foods are often mixed with vegetables because dogs are not obligate carnivores like ferrets and cats.  Ferrets and cats cannot utilize plant derived nutrients, so they end up pooping it all out.  You also need to feed a correct bone:meat ratio to keep the stool consistency normal.  Bone is a very cheap ingredient, so some ground mixes go a little heavy on it.  Too much bone will make your pet constipated.  Not enough bone will make them calcium deficient and have runnier poop.  The easiest and cleanest way to feed raw is whole prey.  Mice, rats, chicks and quail hatchlings can be purchased frozen from a number of online retailers and thawed for feedings.  It is the best diet because it mimics what a wild polecat would catch and eat in the wild.

[Pink]

Congrats on starting raw!  I started for very similar reasons, one of my cats cannot handle grains.  It wasn't until after I started feeding and she instantly was healthy again that I did all the research to find out how amazing it is.

I've always fed large chunks of meat, and grind the heart and liver with all the vegies, to get them to eat them.  I do all my grinding at home.  Keeps the teeth clean.  I don't do bone, as my cats have never handled  it well.  I just figured ground would be better if someone was having trouble with stashing.  My cats tend to be pretty clean, but one of mine used to have to bury her food with any cloth found within twenty feet of her dish.  She stopped real quick when my boyfriend's cats moved in and would steal anything she left behind.  We've stopped them all from stealing now, but they all eat quick.

Pink

[nakedrats]

Hey Pink,

Just as a side note, you don't need to bother with veggies for a cat.  They are obligate carnivores (in the way that dogs aren't) and really can't process plant matter.  Their system doesn't touch it and they just end up pooping it out.  All their nutrients are in the meat and organs. Their fiber comes from connective tissues (and hair if you feed whole prey) and they certainly don't need more carbs.  If you're feeding a variety of meats and organs, that's all they need.  Between chicken, beef, pork, rabbit, duck, game hen, whole fish, whole mice.....you're pretty much covered.  If you're worried about intestinal contents, get green tripe (not the bleached white stuff they sell for human consumption).  That's full of your "fresh from the food supply nutrients".

If you don't do bone, how to do balance your calcium/phosphorus?  Eggshells?  Just curious.  I started my cats on bone using chicken wing, and bone in chicken breast.  That's got nice soft bone to start out on.  They might do better now that they've gotten some jaw strength.  Marrow's great for iron and bone is exactly the balance of cal/phos they need.  My 9lb cats chew the ends off of chicken legs no problem.

I'm so excited!  My ferret is moving off of meat baby food and starting on chopped raw!  Her insulinoma has been doing great and she's even gaining some weight back now that she's lowered her carb intake and quieted down her pancreas.

Woo hoo!