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"Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Topic: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA (Read 830 times)
Sorraia
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"Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
«
on:
November 22, 2008, 06:52:31 PM »
This has me MAD. There is a proposed luxury tax on veterinary care in California. I hope it does NOT pass. It's not like it isn't hard enough to get some people to take their pets in to see the vet. This will really only have bad results:
- Fewer people will take their pets to the vet because they can't afford it.
- More pets turned into shelters by the decent people who realize they can't afford it.
- More animals being put to sleep. Surrender rates are already rising, and adoption rates are way down.
- More tax dollars spent to put those animals to sleep. Guess what that means? Less money for other expenses.
Who will join me in protesting if this passes?
http://inthedish.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/new-luxury-tax-proposed-on-veterinary-services-in-ca/
Quote
In a recent announcement, Governor Schwarzenegger recommended broadening the Sales and Use Tax to include “luxury” items such as veterinary services
Quote
Under the governor’s proposal, essential veterinary services like routine exams, vaccinations and prescription medications would be lumped into the category of taxable services such as “appliance and furniture repair, vehicle repair and golf.” All other medical professions were excluded from the sales tax proposal.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/081114/aqf071.html?.v=1
Quote
The current proposal to tax veterinary medical care is contained in the administration's "Governor's Budget: Special Session 2008-09" document. The proposal recommends that on February 1, 2009, the sales and use tax be broadened to include services, such as "appliance and furniture repair, vehicle repair, golf, and veterinarian services."
Other reports all over the radio stations.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #1 on:
November 22, 2008, 07:22:30 PM »
Unbelievable. Again, because the animals are viewed as property..needing 'repair'.
I don't think appliance or furniture repair, vehicle repair and veterinarian services should be considered a 'luxury'. You need to keep appliances running, vehicles running to get to/from work, and animals NEED medical attention when necessary. These are not luxury services. I can see taxing things on luxury items SUCH AS doggie daycare, over-the-top grooming services, etc but not basic necessities such as medical care.
A lot of new taxes were added to many things in Chicago recently, as well. They are trying to bridge a budget gap so are taxing everything they can think of.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #2 on:
November 22, 2008, 07:29:04 PM »
We have a national tax like that here in Canada. It's called the Goods and Services Tax. It's a money grab thought up by fat cat politicians who have no idea what it means to have to struggle to make ends meet.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #3 on:
November 22, 2008, 07:29:37 PM »
Wow, this sounds like a joke.
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Sorraia
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #4 on:
November 22, 2008, 07:49:00 PM »
Quote
I don't think appliance or furniture repair, vehicle repair and veterinarian services should be considered a 'luxury'. You need to keep appliances running, vehicles running to get to/from work, and animals NEED medical attention when necessary. These are not luxury services. I can see taxing things on luxury items SUCH AS doggie daycare, over-the-top grooming services, etc but not basic necessities such as medical care.
I can KIND of agree with a tax on appliance/furniture repair (especially furniture), as long as it isn't TOO much. Like you said, appliances are necessary to live. You NEED a working refrigerator to keep food from spoiling, you NEED a working stove/microwave/oven (at least one of those) to cook that food. Food is necessary no way around it.
Vehicle repair (they are also talking about raising the vehicle registration fee, at first it was something like $20-100, now they are talking about TRIPLING registration fees! NO!) that's more iffy, because people absolutely NEED their vehicles to get too and from work. The city I live in has POOR public transportation. If you want to rely on public transportation here, you better not need to get to work at any particular time, because it is NOT going to happen. If I relied on public transportation just to get to the office (no way with my field work), I would have to plan on a TWO to THREE hour commute very day. SERIOUSLY. In my own vehicle it takes me maybe 15 minutes. NO. Vehicles are a necessity here.
I absolutely agree with the notion about adding taxes to pet things that are TRULY luxuries, like doggie day care, pet boutiques, etc. Absolutely NOT medical care. Heck, I would even agree with adding an additional tax to animals sold in pet stores, or maybe even pet supplies (nothing too outrageous, especially on necessities like food), things that happen BEFORE you get the animal. But NO WAY should NECESSARY MEDICAL care be taxed. Go ahead and tax procedures such as cropping and tail docking, but not routine care, medications, vaccinations, diagnostic procedures, or even spays/neuters.
I can think of a few other things they can go ahead and tax that ARE luxuries. Sure we (those who use them) won't like it, but if they need money, better to go after the actual luxuries instead of necessities. Things like amusement parks, entertainment (movie productions, movie theaters - not that they don't cost enough already, sporting events), plastic surgery (like breast enlargement and botox). But you know what they are doing? Going after things they claim to be "luxuries" but KNOW darn well that people can't live without. A car might be considered a "luxury" if public transportation or alternatives (such as walking or riding a bike) is available, but they KNOW cars are a necessity for most working people who commute to and from work.
It has not passed yet, and I sure hope it isn't passed. I wish this were a joke, but it is currently in the process.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #5 on:
November 22, 2008, 09:57:40 PM »
I have two things to say...first of all, a "luxury" tax shouldn't be applied to anything that's a necessity. And since state law says that you
must
provide medical care for your animals, it cannot be considered a luxury.
Secondly...is there any tax that people are going to welcome? Of course not. But we expect the government to fund schools and law enforcement and health care for the needy and the defense of our country and to maintain our roads and just a million other things...but no one wants to pay for it.
Taxes suck...but so does paying the rent or paying for utilitlies, and we do that and expect to have to do it. But somehow, we think our government should do the job we want them to do without any money. That simply doesn't make sense.
Americans want their big houses and all the new toys and clothes and goodies, and we aren't willing to give any of that up to pay for our infrastructure. Frankly, if they start funding schools correctly, I don't care if they triple my vehicle registration. Yeah it'll suck, but it sucks even more that schools can't afford PE or music, or hell, even teachers and basic supplies.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
«
Reply #6 on:
November 22, 2008, 10:03:10 PM »
You can sign a petition
HERE
. I don't know if it's only for Californian's, but I received info on it in email. It can't hurt to sign, no matter where you're from, right?
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #7 on:
November 22, 2008, 10:21:58 PM »
Thanks, Pie. I signed.
I understand that the government needs to charge taxes in order to be able to run things. But to charge MORE taxes on necessities is just not cool.
I'm one of those that cringe when I see a "new school tax" on the break-down of my taxes. I have not had a child that would end up clogging the school system. I do not attend that school. I do not feel I should have to pay for something I will personally never use.
-Melina
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
«
Reply #8 on:
November 23, 2008, 01:44:38 AM »
That is SO not ok.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #9 on:
November 23, 2008, 02:30:21 AM »
I just don't see how the Governator can simultaneously cut 2.5 Billion dollars from education AND raise taxes to fund it. I would not have a problem with paying higher taxes if it meant the schools got more money, but it won't. And as for calling veterinary care, auto repair, and appliance repair luxuries . . . I certainly don't see it. What would really be a luxury is if when an appliance or car broke down you just bought a new one. As for vet care, I agree with the poster who said since the laws in CA require you to provide necessary care for your animals, there is no way providing that care is a luxury.
I signed it and I really hope it doesn't pass.
I also wrote to Schwarzenegger and my representatives. I suggest anyone who lives in CA and opposes this write to the governor and your representatives as well. Messages to your officials will have more effect than online petitions.
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Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 03:10:01 AM by Rattiemama
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #10 on:
November 23, 2008, 03:25:27 AM »
I can't believe this. I've been telling everyone about it all day. This is absolutely absurd.
Would they ever dare taxing human doctors? Vets come out of school with more student loans, and earn far less than any human doctor.
I will be a vet someday. I've considered Cali as somewhere I could possibly settle down and set up my own practice eventually. Or, just a place to work through my first few years of being a vet before I decide exactly where I want to go. No definite plans, but Cali was high on the list. There is NO way I would be willing to practice in a state with such a horrible law. There are 49 other states, and may countries, for me to move too, and I will.
This law is stupid, it drives the people away from vet care, and the vets away from the people. It accomplishes nothing.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #11 on:
November 23, 2008, 05:24:30 AM »
Quote from: TheChicagoCrew on November 22, 2008, 10:21:58 PM
Thanks, Pie. I signed.
I understand that the government needs to charge taxes in order to be able to run things. But to charge MORE taxes on necessities is just not cool.
I'm one of those that cringe when I see a "new school tax" on the break-down of my taxes. I have not had a child that would end up clogging the school system. I do not attend that school. I do not feel I should have to pay for something I will personally never use.
-Melina
This is the most ridiculous argument and I hear again and again..."I don't have kids in school, so I shouldn't pay taxes for school." Um...but you attended public school yourself, did you not? And I'm sure when you were in school you weren't paying taxes. Furthermore, the education of the population is good for everyone in the population. The kids in school today are the ones who will be running the country in the future, and do you really not want those people to have the very best education?
There are a gazillion government expenditures that don't impact me directly that our tax dollars go to. The foster system, for instance. I was not a foster kid, my kid will never be a foster kid, but I think we should fund it.
So, great...you made a choice not to have kids. Good for you, but that doesn't mean you don't benefit from the public school system. The public school system creates jobs, and provides a base education for the next generation so that generation can use that education to take care of you in your old age. It provides the base that allows students to go to college and get those medical degrees you need your doctor to have, to get those legal degrees you need your DAs and judges to have. Funding schools is more than making sure your own child gets the education he or she needs. America cannot be a prosperous country without a properly educated population.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
«
Reply #12 on:
November 23, 2008, 05:50:54 AM »
Quote from: strangeduck on November 23, 2008, 05:24:30 AM
Quote from: TheChicagoCrew on November 22, 2008, 10:21:58 PM
Thanks, Pie. I signed.
I understand that the government needs to charge taxes in order to be able to run things. But to charge MORE taxes on necessities is just not cool.
I'm one of those that cringe when I see a "new school tax" on the break-down of my taxes. I have not had a child that would end up clogging the school system. I do not attend that school. I do not feel I should have to pay for something I will personally never use.
-Melina
This is the most ridiculous argument and I hear again and again..."I don't have kids in school, so I shouldn't pay taxes for school." Um...but you attended public school yourself, did you not? And I'm sure when you were in school you weren't paying taxes. Furthermore, the education of the population is good for everyone in the population. The kids in school today are the ones who will be running the country in the future, and do you really not want those people to have the very best education?
There are a gazillion government expenditures that don't impact me directly that our tax dollars go to. The foster system, for instance. I was not a foster kid, my kid will never be a foster kid, but I think we should fund it.
So, great...you made a choice not to have kids. Good for you, but that doesn't mean you don't benefit from the public school system. The public school system creates jobs, and provides a base education for the next generation so that generation can use that education to take care of you in your old age. It provides the base that allows students to go to college and get those medical degrees you need your doctor to have, to get those legal degrees you need your DAs and judges to have. Funding schools is more than making sure your own child gets the education he or she needs. America cannot be a prosperous country without a properly educated population.
I agree with this concept. There are lots of things we need to fund even if we do not personally use them. Highways, for instance. Your tax dollars make sure there are good roadways for interstate commerce, and this is worthwhile even if you do not use them. And, I agree that an eduated population is vital for a healthy state/country.
That being said, there really needs to be more oversight. I currently work in a school system and have seen evidence of staggering corruption. I personally feel that teachers need to be paid well, but it seems to me that the huge taxes paid go not for salaries and equipment but many times for unneccessary spending. I support the idea of paying school taxes but not for irresponsible spending.
And taxing veterinary services? How stupid is that. Schwartzenegger is a wealthy actor turned politician, and while there is nothing wrong with that, he needs to have a reality check when it comes to critters and their health.
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Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 05:55:45 AM by Lucille
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #13 on:
November 23, 2008, 06:28:57 AM »
Nope, I did not go to public school. My children, if there are any, will not go to public school either. But that is a whole 'nother discussion. I should not have to pay NEW school taxes when the CURRENT schools are floundering, and as the previous poster mentioned, the money isnt going where it is needed.
Arnold has signed on for some really insane bills during his time in office. Cali is supposed to be the 'leader' when it comes to animals and guardianship and all that it entails. He will seriously stifle those efforts by taxing their very necessary health care.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #14 on:
November 23, 2008, 06:56:26 AM »
This entire proposal is just asking for animal abuse. There are people already hesitant to take their pets to the vet because of the cost, and this just gives them more of an excuse not to.
I'm glad I no longer live there if that sort of thing would pass. I've been paying a lot over the past two weeks alone on one of my cats to go to the vet. (he isn't doing well...)
*sigh*
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #15 on:
November 23, 2008, 09:28:12 AM »
Sure, no one likes paying taxes, but it is a necessity for the government to run. HOWEVER that does not mean anything and everything under the sun should be taxed! Veterinary care should NOT be taxed. I already know people who DO NOT take their animals to the vet unless the animal is near death. Do you think taxing veterinary care is going to change those people's mind? No, if anything it will make more people like them, because people just CANNOT afford it right now.
Some people WILL pay a tax on veterinary care. Others will not. Quite frankly, what is MORE likely to happen if this tax passes:
- More animals neglected and abused, denied necessary medical care.
- More animals abandoned.
- More animals surrendered to shelters.
- Fewer animals adopted from shelters.
- More animals euthanized in shelters -> more spending of our taxes.
- No net gain of money to pay off the budget.
Personally, I WOULD be willing to pay taxes (because taxes are necessary) on non-necessities. My computer, television, CD player, and DVD player are all luxuries. I WOULD be willing to pay a tax (nothing outrageous) on those. A luxury car or one with all the "add-ons" is non-essential compared to your basic car that will get you from A to B, add a tax to those. Add a small increase to vehicle registration (NOT tripling it). Add a tax to non-essential pet items, such as high-end pet boutiques and pet daycare. Add a tax to kennel services. There are SO MANY other things the government can add a tax to BESIDES veterinary care.
Another thing I cannot understand: This state has such a high deficit, WHY is it spending more money? Several propositions that passed during this last election that call for increased spending:
Prop 1A, Safe, reliable high-speed passenger train bond act - estimated $19.4 BILLION
Prop 3, Children's hospital bond act - estimated $2 BILLION
Prop 12, Veteran's bond act of 2008 - estimated $1.8 BILLION
So out of those three propositions that passed, that's over $20 BILLION in costs. Why were these propositions even allowed on the ballot??? If the state needs money so badly it has to tax ESSENTIALS such as veterinary care, WHY is it allowing more money to be spent?
And as far as public education and the taxes that pay for it - public education in this day and age is a joke. Children are NOT growing up with the education they should have, and it isn't because they aren't being taught, it's because it isn't even allowed on the curriculum! Children are getting burned out by tests, and learning to despise school. The quality of education has gone down since I went through public school. As far as I'm concerned, strip it all. Offer up private school and home schooling. Sure the education of our population is going to get worse for a time, but you know what? Public school hasn't helped that much either. That's just my personal opinion. Cutting out education from the state deficit means a lot more money that can be spent somewhere else.
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Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 05:22:28 PM by Marybelle
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #16 on:
November 23, 2008, 12:19:23 PM »
Just to clarify my position....In no way should veterinary care be taxed, and calling it a "luxury" tax is so completely ignorant that only our body builder turned bad actor turned bad governer would be willing to do so publicly.
Schwartzenegger is the biggest example of "fat cat" politician I've ever seen. He got into office basically by promising to repeal the raise in vehicle registration fees, which he immediately did because this was something that affected him and his hummers personally. However, he has repeatedly cut funding to everything, schools, hospitals, law enforcement...and we still don't have a balanced budget. I still cannot fathom how he was re-elected.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #17 on:
November 23, 2008, 12:27:41 PM »
Quote from: strangeduck on November 23, 2008, 12:19:23 PM
Just to clarify my position....In no way should veterinary care be taxed, and calling it a "luxury" tax is so completely ignorant that only our body builder turned bad actor turned bad governer would be willing to do so publicly.
Ah, thanks for the clarification!
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #18 on:
November 23, 2008, 12:54:09 PM »
Quote from: Sorraia on November 23, 2008, 09:28:12 AM
So out of those three propositions that passed, that's over $20 BILLION in costs. Why were these propositions even allowed on the ballot??? If the state needs money so badly it has to tax ESSENTIALS such as veterinary care, WHY is it allowing more money to be spent?
If the state government could pick and choose which propositions were "allowed on the ballot" that would entirely defeat the purpose of the initiative petitions, which allow citizens more direct control over their governing laws. In order to get these measures on the ballot, people had to collect signatures of CA voted amounting to 8% of the population and submit them, and the initiative to the CA Secretary of State along with a fee. There is then no choice on whether to "allow" them on the ballot or not. The voters then get to decide.
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Re: "Luxury tax" on veterinary care proposed in CA
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Reply #19 on:
November 23, 2008, 01:16:10 PM »
Quote from: Rattiemama on November 23, 2008, 12:54:09 PM
Quote from: Sorraia on November 23, 2008, 09:28:12 AM
So out of those three propositions that passed, that's over $20 BILLION in costs. Why were these propositions even allowed on the ballot??? If the state needs money so badly it has to tax ESSENTIALS such as veterinary care, WHY is it allowing more money to be spent?
If the state government could pick and choose which propositions were "allowed on the ballot" that would entirely defeat the purpose of the initiative petitions, which allow citizens more direct control over their governing laws. In order to get these measures on the ballot, people had to collect signatures of CA voted amounting to 8% of the population and submit them, and the initiative to the CA Secretary of State along with a fee. There is then no choice on whether to "allow" them on the ballot or not. The voters then get to decide.
Then the public needs to be better educated about these propositions and the current financial situation of the state.
Honestly, what happens when the state can't afford these propositions (and more in the future that may be passed), and the people can't afford to pay the taxes? How does that help the economy?
It's a downward spiral that won't get better unless drastic measures are taken. The economy needs stimulation, the most effective way to do that is by spending money, buying things. However when everyone is being taxed into oblivion, no one is going to be spending money. Maybe that state will be able to pay a small proportion of its debt, but in the mean time every other business is dying, because it can't survive without people spending money. What happens when people can no longer afford to feed themselves because their taxes are so high?
I guess California's population is just doomed.
BTW, Not saying this is what you support or are saying or anything of that nature. These are just my thoughts in response to what you said regarding the propositions.
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