Goosemoose Pet Portal

Hi all
We have three girl hooded rats. Lily Rat has gone runabout under the house about four times. She stays away for 24 hours at a time. Now there is a wild male rat hanging around their cage. ( he is in love, or lust). I am sure Lilly is pregnant! We are delighted, but had always intended for her boyfriend to be a show rat, not a gypsy, wild rat. The pet store said that they would sell any baby rats we had. My question is, will the babies be pet rats? or wild rats? Will the pet store want her babies. There are no snakes in New Zealand (where we live) so the babies will go as pets, not food. Any good advice welcome. We have never had baby rats. I can't wait. marc

There's a wild rat IN your house, hanging about your cages??  Shouldn't you be seriously concerned about diseases and contamination?  I just don't know what to say to this happening.  I go nuts trying to keep the wild rodents out of my house because of disease and damage, so I would not be thrilled with this situation at all.  Maybe you should consult a good vet and see if there are any concerns you need to address during her pregnancy.  

Wow.  I pray she doesn't get sick or anything.  

Tunes is right. Good advice.....talk to the vet to see what may need to be done while the female is pregnant. Possibly a way to avoid the high chances of some type of infection.
Not every rat or mouse (wild that is) carries disease. We all have reason to be worried though. I mean look we get a new fancy rat and quarantine it before introducing it to our other rats so its kind of scary that a wild rat is hanging around. How long have you known this? Hopefully it has been around a while so you can rule out the chance it passed around any kind of disease.

I would NOT recommend giving the babies to the pet store  :-\ NOT a good idea!  There is always the chance they'll be bought for feeders, and you never know the people taking the babies, so you wont know if it's a good home or not. Plus, these rats may be 1/2 wild, which would probably make them more skittish/agressive than a normal domestic rat.  I'd want to be sure they were going to a great home if that's the case, and I can guarantee you wont get that by using the pet store.

Also, I agree with the others. Take her to the vet right away...Who knows what diseases she could have!  I'd suggest keeping her away from the other rats, just in case she does have something.  I'd also suggest you find a way to keep your rat inside to prevent this from happening again.

Please check the refrence desk, it has heaps of information about caring for pregnant rats/babies.

All very good advice, i suggest you take it.

Wow, this is troubling.

The babies will be half wild rats, and their instincts may not make them good pets. Its' a bad situation. I would not give them away or sell them to anyone, unless an experienced rat person (adult) was willing to take them as rescue rats.

Certainly do not give them to the petstore. Any petstore that would sell rats that were part "wild rat" has a serious problem (and I think the dept of health would agree).  there should be no risk that these will be bought by a child wanting a pet.

Do ***not*** let wild rats near your pet rats -- they carry disease. It's bad news all the way 'round.:(

check out the article on rat reproduction on the rat fan club site. It'll be helpful.

You guys, 1/2 wild rats raised in captivity will NOT act aggressive as if they were born and raised in the wild, then suddenly caged. People here have or have had 1/2 wild babies before and they say they are even sweeter than domestic ones. It's all in the way you raise them. I hope you have a good vet, that does not reccommend aborting the babies because they're father is a wild rat. That isn't neccessary. I also suggest you find homes yourself, do not take them to a pet store. Unsuspecting people may not understand certain behaviors or the looks of them (they may look a bit strange to people used to pet rats). I suggest you secure the cage and use a live trap to catch the male and relocate him far away.

Cracker and Jack are part wild rat. They look very much like our pet ratties except for their snouts and something.........about their eyes. They only like each other.  They go INSANE around other rats and become so aggressive that they end up in bad moods with each other.  They do however love me and love each other but thats it. They do not trust anyone. They are jumpy.  As I said before they have these high pitch squeaks that set off my security alarm the other night during a fight. They dont fight much with each other now that they are over one years old.  They do not bite anyone though. They simply run away from others.  They will take treats from people they do not know but wont eat them right away. They bury them and take sample bites to make sure its OK first.  Same with new foods. This is all natural instinct of a wild rat to make sure they are not being poisioned.
I read all about this and it all hit home when it comes to describing a wild rat and my two boys. I will have to post their pictures so you can see the difference in the way they look.  They do not like to be held. They do not brux outside of their cage. They sniff and smell me like crazy when I touch them after touching other ratties and puff out for no reason! LOL
They also HISS.  My other rats breathe hard when angry but never hiss. These two boys do and its not a nice sound. Not sure if this is a normal trait of a fancy domestic rat or not but out of 21 rats the only two that hiss are my mixed.
Anyhow I would say that it would not be a good idea to give away the babies if indeed they had wild rat in them unless the new owner understand the differences that MIGHT appear in their personalities.
When I adopted out the two rescue girls babies to Sanitisplayground, I kept the ones that were not real social basically because I did not want them to go to a new home and be even more introverted.  They have come out of their shell alot more since they are divided up and I can give them alot of attention.  I gave away the babies that were more outgoing and friendly.

There you have it.........a briefing on mixed rats.  I know that there are others on this board that have them too that can tell you that there may or may not be noticeable differences in them.  I see it with my two boys and really didnt notice when I first got them when they were typical hyper baby boys.  They were way too young when I got them (just 5 weeks old) and I was mad they were taken from their mom so young........and thought that is why they were so aggressive.  It wasnt until later on when I talked to the owner of the pet store that I found out that my new babies were part wild rat.  In fact only four babies survived that litter.

Perhaps this is why domestic rats are terrified of hissing noises. At least all the ones I've ever met have been.

Jessi

I never noticed with the other rats if hissing sounds scare them. Sudden noises of any kind scare them if everything is real calm but if its all chaotic nothing startles them!!

The hissing sound is bizarre and it means a very angry rat when you hear it. I usually take one out and put him in their spare play-time out cage for an hour to let them get out of their bad moods.
Like I said the older they get the less aggressive they seem.
I have an old sheet on the top of the cage and they LOVE to pull it in and make all kinds of little cozy corners to hide in. They are very unique rats.

I wouldn't be delighted.........
The same thing happened to me and the poor babies, well they are about 6 months now are always frightened although I did everything to socialise them.......

It's so not fair on them!  Don't give them to a pet store, they will be terrified!  

I thought wild rats couldnt breed with domesicated rats.  Doesnt the female have a miscariage.  Or the babies are still born.  Thats what I always heard.

Er, why would domestic rats be unable to breed with wild rats? They are the same species....

Heather - please remember, temperament is VERY heriditary. You could end up with friendly babies, you could not.

Hi again
Thank you so much for all your good feed back. We live in the country, so the father rat is not a sewer rat. Lily is healthy and definately pregnant. I just hope the babies are healthy and happy.
The idea of getting a live cage and taking the wild rat far away is a good idea. Ever since I had rats for pets, I don't want to kill any rat if I can help it.
A friend's kid left the cage open and that is how Lily got away in the first place. She loved it and kept on running away. I had nighmares of her getting eaten by a cat (they go under the house where she was) Once she wanted to go so bad, I just let her go. I couldn't be her jailer. Now that she is pregnant, she is much more settled. The other rats, Miriam and Poppy have never wanted to go on big adventures, just Lilly. She definately wants these babies. I hope they are pets. My two boys are excited as anything.
I certainly never imagined that this would happen!
It is fantastic to have other people out there who care about rats to talk to. Thank you to all!! marc

They might end up friendly babies, and I certainly hope that they do, but the formula I'd heard was that it takes about 20 generations of breeding in captivity before you can really call an animal domesticated.  Wild animals that have been hand-raised can be very sweet, but they aren't predictably so, especially if/when they're stressed.  These babies should (hopefully) learn to be more friendly and trusting from their mother and their upbringing, but I still wouldn't recommend them as a pet for, say, a young child, or anyone new to rats; it's just the uncertainty.  You can know that they're docile, but you can't guarantee it.

Good luck to you and Lily, either way it turns out...

I thought I posted up above...........I have two males that are half wild rat.

They are FINE with each other.  They love me to death and play and act like normal rats except they are not as trusting with strangers and other little odd things I described.  
It does depend on how YOU raise them making sure you handle them as soon as mom rat allows you to handle them. Each mother rat is different.
Oreo let me touch hers from day one while Charlotte, who never bites, tore me to bloody shreds for weeks even when I went to simply feed her!
She is back to her old sweet self now btw.
Again I want to stress that just because they are part wild will not make them some crazed rat.  There is a chance they will be shy thats all.

My two part wild boys look almost the same except in the snout and ears.......and its even hard to tell unless you really know the difference.

Dont worry ok? It will work out. just do your best to keep all the babies if possible.  

Im not sure if I misread this but does this mean you actively allowed her to run about unsupervised? I would advise you never do this. She could come to much more harm than being impregnated by a wild rat, you're lucky the wild rat didn't kill her. Especially if you've got cats. I hate as much as anyone else the idea that we have to keep animals like rats caged but it is for their safety.
As for the babies, I agree with everyone that you should either keep them all or put a HUGE effort into finding them rat knowledgable homes. Ideally, you should keep them all since you bred them. But whatever you do, do NOT place them in a pet shop, not just because they're half wild. I'd say the same thing if they weren't. You just don't know where they'll end up if you put them in a shop.

I read that it was illegal to house wild rats because they can carry so many diseases and are harmful to other pets.

 ???

You didn't read her post. ;) In New Zealand, there are NO SNAKES...

The other problems with the pet stores - that you don't know who will buy them, for instance - do still stand, though.

Are you not allowed to have pet snakes, then? I would imagine so, but I Googled it and all I found was travel info (that made me want to go there).

Jessi

I understand this, but also remember that the babies are half DOMESTIC too. While certain instincts will stay with the babies, if raised properly, handled from birth and time spent socializing them, I see no reason why the babies couldn't be made into loving, trusting animals. I would work with them if I were closer, but I'm in the United States. Since the mother is domestic, I'm sure the babies will take to her attitude towards people. Young ones tend to follow their mother's behaviors.

No... because there aren't any in the country... ;) And no, you aren't allowed to import them... they don't want any snakes in there for a reason (wildlife etc) :)

Hey wow, a kiwi.

Yep, no snakes.  No imports, as they'd have a field day with all of our native flightless birds (much like the wild rats have)...

It's big huge news if a snake sneaks in in a crate that's been imported.  


Whereabouts do you live, Clarky?  PM me if you like...  :)

Do you all then say "Ooh, it's a snaaaake..."

http://starterupsteve.servepics.com/swf/badger.html?

*slap*

Bad Rhinecat!  :BlueDumboSmileTongue:


We don't have badgers either... ;)

I would not want the babies aborted either... but having them be half wild does give you a greater problem and greater responsibility, since the pet shop would land them in homes that may not be rat savy. And the liklihood of problems IS there, and its' a good liklihood.

You said the father was not a "sewer rat". I'm in the US, not New Zealand, so I'm not sure what type of rats you have. Weather in the country or city, most rats around here are Norwiegan (sp?) rats (same as pet rats, i think, except not domesticated).

The wild ones still carry disease, even if they don't live in sewers. I'd be very, very careful.

Good luck. Perhaps you could post a thread asking those who have half wild rats to post, or to PM you, so you can get a lot of experience shared. That's always the best thing... words of wisdom from those who have been there (and thanks, sugarfoxx, for sharing about yours!)

Yeah, we have r. norwegicus, r. rattus and r. exulans here....it'd most likely be norwegicus, the ship rats tend to stay in the forests and pacific rats are nearly extinct on the mainland.

 I know just how you feel. My boys love to get out and play. Well,okay, sleep.  ::)

 However I'd really suggest you try to confine her to one area. Set aside a single ratproofed room or just a bed, couch or desk where you can keep an eye on her. Just letting her roam about with cats and wild rats around is just asking for trouble.

 That being said, best of luck with your babies. Give them lots of love and with luck, you'll end up with very affectionate ratlets.

 Please keep us posted.

I didn't know snakes were the only things fed live rodents...I didn't necessarly mean snakes. I read the post, don't worry ;)

...well....we don't really keep reptiles as pets...all of our reptiles are endangered :P

What else do people feed rats to?

Yes that is very true.

I recently had a litter.
Pet store rat, pregnant in the box, going to be fed to a snake situation.
I never got to know the mother rat and she was very agressive to me because when i got her she was VERY pregnant.
She is still agressive, although 4 weeks later she is doing alittle better. But the mother has taught her babies to bite, well nibble at the moment.
Some don't do it as much as other but as soon as you put your hand in the cage they go straight for the fingers and I have done nothing but socialize them ALL day EVERYDAY and tried to raise them the best I can, I even ended up ignoring my b/f over the rats!

I think that they learn from the mother and if your mother rat is very well behaved then you may have little problems, she will teach them top be sweet rats, but being half wild, there is a good chance they could be agressive.
There is a 50, 50 chance of it going either way or mixing. They could be sweet most of the time and be aggressive everynow and then. Or they could be agressive most of the time and be sweet every now and then.

I suggest you GO FIND recources on caring for a pregnant rat, treating the babies etc. You especially will need to know as much as you can about raising them to become the best of their ability.

Good Luck and for your sake, I hope she isnt preggers.

No clue, but I didn't know you didn't keep reptiles of any kind either :).

[
Large lizards, like the large types of monitors, and very large frogs, like Budgett's frogs and Argentinian horned frogs. The frogs can't eat adult rats, but they can eat young rats. Also, apparently some idiots (go look in Random Chatter) like to feed their iguanas (who are strict vegetarians!) rats.  ::)

Also, and this would be a worry of mine if any rats went to pet stores, even in NZ, people train dogs to fight, race, and hunt and kill rats using rats as a lure, e.g. dogfighting, lure coursing, and "ratting".

Hope this is coherent, must sleep.

Jessi

Hey! Bella does that huffing noise when my pug goes near her cage. It's honestly, the funniest sight. LOL!!!

Yes they huff and it can look funny but that means the rat is actually scared to death.  I dont like when my ratties huff........I am afraid they will go into shock from being so scared. My friend had a rat die from shock when the cats were allowed to roam around the cages.  

OMFG!  :shocked2:
that means i'm not gonna let the dog near her. Thank you so much for telling me.

I would think that would be fairly normal behavior for babies, or atleast any babies that I ever raised. I would be more concerned with the babies that didn't immediately come over to my hand and start nibbling my fingers or fingernails. Some of them would chomp down a little hard at first, not deliberately...just out of curiousity, but they would grow out of it. Once baby rats realize they've got teeth and a whole world outside of the nest they were raised in, all they seem to want to do is taste-test and nibble on everything.

Granted, I realize a pet shop rat is still different from a wild rat as far as personality, but I had a pet shop girl who delivered a few days after I got her. She wasn't friendly then, didn't have a chance to get to know me before she delivered...and even 2 years later when she died, she was a friendly girl but never really got used to being pet or picked up. But her babies were a delight...they grew into nosy, happy, friendly adults that didn't show any of their mother's caution or nervousness.

I hate to be a party pooper, but if I was in your situation I would abort and spay.   There are so many sweet and friendly rats that really need homes that it seems like it's best not to bring more possibly-hard-to-socialize-rats  into this world if you can help it.   Plus there is always a risk to the mother's health during delivery.

And I would try to catch the wild rat and have him neutered, too.   If they really are Romeo and Juliet you can keep him in a separate cage instead of subjecting him to relocation to a strange territory.   I always think their chances are so slim when you do that.     I know someone who rescued a relatively older wild rat that seemed okay with the cage, so it's not necessarily cruel to cage a wild one.  

As long as the girls are unspayed they will attract the wild boys.  Where there's one there have to be more.   And wild rats can give your pets and you parasites.   So you may have to take steps to rid the house of them.

"As long as the girls are unspayed they will attract the wild boys.  Where there's one there have to be more.  And wild rats can give your pets and you parasites.  So you may have to take steps to rid the house of them."

wow like with human men to....lol

Hi all
Lily had 10 or eleven babies on Friday afternoon. The wild father was there (at the birth) under the cage, and then crawling up the cage wire, then sitting on a ledge on the outside of the cage. My son and I watched him for about 30 minutes. We were only 10 feet away shining a flashlight on him. He is a very friendly looking rat. He has grey fur that is very puffy and soft looking. He often looked right at us. (he must be a sensitive new age rat!) After he was gone, we discovered that Lily had given birth. I had made a separate nest for Lily. When I opened the cage, Poppy and Miriam zoomed right out- no sign of lily. She was still in her nest with her babies.
She has been great with us. We can put our hands in the nest and pat her. We opened the end of the nest (a wine box) to have a little look at the babies. She then moved them to the other end of the nest. I think she will be a great mum. Not agressive to us people at all. I put Poppy and Miriam in another cage for the time being.
I'll send some photos when the babies look like rats. They are just little pink beans right now. I think that they will be really cute.

I might be reading this wrong but do your rats live outside in their cage or does the wild daddy make his way into your home?  Just curious.
Congrats on your new babies :party:

When you say the dad has grey fur, it's possible he's a domesticated rat, but living in the wild. Can you get a picture of him? In any case, you still need to set out a live trap.

Congrats on the new babies, but be very careful of dad rat.  Momma rats come into heat again within 24 hours after giving birth.  Chances are that he was there to get her pregnant again.  I would really find a way to keep him away from your females.

Congrats on your babies.   If your anywhere near me I would consider taking some babies off your hands. I see your in New Zealand so um.....thats pretty far from me!  Shoot!!
I have two half wilds that I adore and they adore me. They are going on two years old now......males.....BIG BOYS at that!


Please try to get that wild rat. Dont let him near them if at all possible.  
The last thing the new mom needs is to get pregnant again so soon. That would be very bad. It is also very possible to happen right away.  Sounds like Dad is already waiting. I doubt he is there to welcome the new offspring.  In fact make sure he cannot get to them at all.

Do they live outside or inside? I think someone asked you that already.  It sounds like you keep them inside and the wild rat is getting in the house somehow??



Thanks!

the male will probably have a quick hump through the cage wires. I think you should go get that man and take away his man hood all together!

Thanks for asking that question. I was wondering the same thing. It sounds to me as though they are kept outside as well...

if you catch the wild rat and he doesn't mind cage life you have to name him Cassanova. :cheeky:

Caging a wild animal who doesn't need medical attention is, in my opinion, a rather cruel thing to do. I wouldn't advise it.

Hi all
Our rats live inside our house in a cage made out of an old chest of drawers (bottom drawer to catch the poop, other drawers gone. Wire on the front). It is an old 150 year old frame house. The wild rat comes in through a rat hole somewhere. I have heard him banging around in the walls now and then over the last two years- but never worried about it as I'm not afraid of rats and I've never set eyes on him. That is what is so extraordinary- I never see wild rats- they are so private and now I have one sitting in my hallway! I definately need to move him away from my girl rats! I never considered the fact that he could be bonking them through the wire!  That would be a disaster!
regards

I dont mean to laugh or anything but......that word BONK.......I must be some old fart or something!!  :huh:  Is that the newest word to say ?  

BONK


It sounds.........PAINFUL!  LMAO

Sorry.......ahem.......I didnt mean to say that. ;D

Yeah I did.......... :cheeky:

It's non-American English.

I agree. Catching a wild animal and putting it in a cage would be cruel and absolutely unnecessary in this case. But I would definitely get him away from where your girls are. Altho, your girl got pregnant when she WAS outside the cage right?

...sure it's not "boink"?  I've heard of boinking before...

No, it's bonk :P

We use that term all the time here...

it was a joke hehe but still should be nammed cassanova.....

why do I keep pictureing lady and teh tramp with rats lol

Bonk... LOFL!!!!  :yelcutelaugh:
I'm sorry, but that's a really funny word to use in a case like this.

Bonk! Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
~Lisa  ;D

Hi everybody
Last night my twelve year old son caught the wild rat (we call him Jeremy) in an empty travel cage. We just put elastic on the cage door with a prop that had a long string. I put some tuna fish in the cage and waited about one hour. We were watching him with a mirror. After we caught Jeremy we drove him ten miles away and let him lose by an old derelict hall. He has started a new life. It is his own fault. He should have stayed under the house where he belonged!

Haven't you people ever seen "Four Weddings and a Funeral"?   :P

Good luck to Jeremy - may he be a happy dad to some wild woman rat in his new digs.  He may, of course, have brothers....  :cheeky:  so that's something to watch out for.

Good luck with the little eepers. I'd love to hear all about them as they grow up!

Poor Jeremy, he must be terrified >:(

Let's just hope he doesn't instinctually find his way back "home".  Please post pictures if you have any later.  :)

Jessica

wtf?

Um... Yeah! my thoughts EXACTILLY! :hyper:

Hi all
I am feeling a bit sad. I took Lilly's ten babies to the pet shop a few hours ago. They are four and a half weeks old and eating solid food.
I haven't written for ages so I'll tell you the intervening news.
The babies all look like their father, soft, grey and feral except for a tiny white tip on their tales (except for Rocket who somehow lost the tip of his tail- for a while I thought half of them had a bitten tail because everytime I'd put my hand into the nest to grab a baby, I was always getting the same one- Rocket). They also have pale whitey grey patterns on their tummies. They are the cutest little rats you can imagine- all very healthy. The whole litter survived (eating avocado and cashewnuts and codliver oil).
My best friends eleven year old daughter was in total tears because her folks wouldn't let her have the two babies that she and her friends had picked out, named and loved. She was offering to give him her life savings (about $300) if she could only have those rats. It was very sad. I think we all know the feeling.
Lilly was a great Mum. She wouldn't let us or her sisters near them for the first few weeks. She wouldn't bite, but she'd put her mouth around your finger if you stuck it in. We were peaking , but she would move the babies and block up the holes. When they got fuzzy she got more relaxed and less vigilant. I tried putting them in a clean nest, but she just picked them up and put them back in the stinky one.
The babies are sweet natured and very fast and alert. I have had tons of kids playing with them and never had a problem. I thought I had lost two or three, but when I took them to the pet shop, there were ten. Kids would lose a rat, but they must have crawled back into th big cage through the chicken wire.
I was really worried that no one would want wild looking baby rats, but when I took them to the pet shop (not a chain) the rat expert was delighted. She wants to keep one of the girls to breed from. She says that she will have no trouble selling them all. Before I took them to the pet shop, I took them to my eight year old son's school so he could show them off to the kids in his class. About four kids are going to try and convince their parents to get some of our babies. One of the teachers looked at them and shivered- yuk, rats- but the kids were all delighted and everybody got the chance to hold a baby.
I would have loved to keep them, but I can't. I have to go away for six weeks and organizing care for my three big girls is awkward enough. I pray that the babies all find good homes.
marc

 :worry: Like I said in a previously, I hope they go to good homes too!....... They will need alot of attention and sooo much patience (more than our domestic rattys)........  
If you weren't planning on definately keeping them you shouldn't of encouraged the breeding in the first place........
I feel sorry for the little ones as they are half wild and will be terrified in a pet shop...........
I had an escapee.... and have been put in this position ( I didn't encourage it at all), about 8 months ago.... so I know what I'm talking about.....  mine are still quite scared...., it's not fair on them!......  I think it's quite irresposible.....  :(

So, because of your mistake, you had these 10 babies who are half wild, and now a supposed "rat expert" wants to keep a baby she knows NOTHING about genetically and BREED her??

I think that's one of the most horrible things I've ever heard! Because of your indescretion, now there will be more and more litters born...and the cycle repeats itself...

**runs for cover**

 ::)

 :-[

Come on you guys. She made a mistake. Everyone does. Don't bash her. She's trying to do all that she can to give these rats somewhat of a better life. It's a lot better then setting them out in the wild.
Yes, they are half wild and half domesticated, but they need love too.

i agree with Afterglow.

But she came here asking us what she should do (aswell as generally telling her story) and we said that it would be ok to let the babies live, as long as they went to rat knowledgable homes and NOT a petshop, under any circumstances. I don't think anyone here advocates giving ANY rat you've bred to a pet shop, let alone one thats half wild.
And the very fact that someone wants to BREED from these rats is worrying. Yes they may have 'nice temperaments' but that alone is not a reason to breed. My boy Seven has a fantastic temperament, exactly the perfect rat, and I've been tempted a few times, but no. And I would be willing to keep all the babies too. But theres already too many rats that need homes and theres already people out there who breed and are doing a better job than me.
This wouldn't be so bad and Im sure no one would bash you if it weren't for he fact that we DID say not to give them to a pet shop and not to breed from them. If no one had said anything, you'd be firgiven for just making a mistake. But this can't be a mistake since a lot of people warned you.

Actually, no, it was not a mistake.  These people were hoping for a pregnancy between their fancy rat and a "wild" rat because they thought it would be "neat."  Everyone warned them that it was not a good idea, but they still thought it would be great.  There was no accident, it was deliberate.   They allowed a wild rat to have access to their female and allowed their female to run loose outside the house.  Is that an accident too?  

Sorry, I'm with the negative posts here as well.  This should never have happened, let alone encouraged, and hoped for because the owners thought it would be a neat thing to do.   I also can't imagine, with the very, very short gestation period of a rat, that they did not know they would be leaving for six weeks before encouraging Lily to get pregnant.  It's just a sad situation all the way around.  

EXACTLY, Tunes! Didn't the OP say they were "thrilled", or some other synonym? Come ON people! This was clearly no mistake!  >:( The OP said they KNEW this rat was inside their house for 2 years and still they let their fancy go under the house to be with him! That doesn't sound like an accident to me...on the contrary, it sounds like it was all part of the plan!  :huh: And to give these babies to the pet shop after 3 PAGES of posts telling them not to, and warning of the consequences....I'm completely speechless.  >:(

And now this genetic line will be perpetuated...and whatever problems the parents develop down the line will come out in the babies...who will also have babies...and round and round we go...OMG I better stop before I type out a venomous personal attack and click "post"..... :confused:

There's just one thing about asking for advice that tends to get overlooked:  asking for it in no way guarantees you'll follow it to the letter.  Nobody, to the best of my knowledge, has ever posted to the board saying "tell me exactly what to do and I'll hang on your every word", though most are grateful for whatever information is offered, and many do follow the advice given to some degree or another.

I think everyone's preferences and advice have already been made abundantly clear here, and while everyone may not be happy with the way things turned out, expressing violent, hissing displeasure over and over is neither going to change anything nor make the less experienced any more comfortable with asking for opinions here again.

True, but something had to be said. I find that if you constantly take the 'never mind, you messed up but we love you anyway!' Disney- approach, people will time and time again repeat their mistakes, or not realise the severity of the situation. It tends to make people sit up and think 'hmm....guess I DID mess up' a lot more than just saying 'nevermind' And if I can prevent this sort of thing happening again by letting someone know that I think they were wrong, it's worth it.

Letting someone know you think they were wrong is fine, and, given that they were asking for advice, entirely appropriate; I'm just not certain that someone needs to hear it a dozen different ways with the occasional personal attack thrown in.  I should hope that they've got the point by now.

Probably a little premature to have posted this in this particular thread, but I've seen these sorts of discussions go downhill fast before, and just wanted to toss in my own .02 before the topic got locked.

I personally think that when someone comes on here and makes a post about something and asks for advice. We shouldn't start giving them a hard time and making them feel bad. They don't come on here and make posts to hear the same bad comments over and over again. I understand that sometimes people may do things that some people don't agree with. I don't understand why the same bad thing needs to be posted over and over again, I think the first few bashes they get the point. This person obviously is trying to make the best they could out of their situation. I just don't like to read threads that are full of negetivitey, we should say how we feel without trying to make the person seem like they are a bad ratty parent. We shouldn't be so mean that it makes people not want to come back. Just my thoughts...

Ok it sounds like this is going downhill -- again. This person's rat got pregnant, had the babies, the babies are now weaned and in a pet store. I don't agree with how things were handled from start to finish, but it doesn't sound like we're going to be making any difference to this person's decision. It's just going to keep going back and forth about what coulda/woulda/shoulda been done. I don't see how anything positive could come out of the remaining conversation without a LOT of negative things being said.

-Melina