Goosemoose Pet Portal

about mistakes they made with their first rats?

My first two girls were very spur-of-the-moment acquisitions. They were lab rats, about 3 months old, due to be gassed at the end of a biology project. I brought them home even though I didn't have the first idea about rats. Poppy and Lupin were extremely well loved but I still sometimes have horrible pangs of guilt about mistakes I made.

For the first month or so they were in a tiny 'starter' cage on pine. Fortunately I soon got them on different litter and in a bigger cage. But there are so many things I wish I'd known or thought about.

I didn't recognise the signs of myco and as a result my old girl only started treatment two days before she died. I didn't clean their cage out often enough and believe now that that was probably one of the reasons Poppy had such bad bumblefoot.  :-[

Even though I gave them an hour out of their cage a day I didn't spend much more time with them other than that (I was often at my boyfriend's before I moved in). I wish I'd given them more toys, and more nutritious food, more hammocks and stuff like that, and had made life more exciting.

Lupin had a nasty lump appear under her  chin a couple of weeks before she died - the vet assumed it was just an extension of the tumour she had, saying that it was rare for rats to get abscesses, and I didn't question it. As a result it got so nasty that she couldn't eat and I had to have her put down. I even wish I had had that done differently. For her last 3 months Lupin was on her own and quite low - I didn't get her a new pal because I was keen to have boys this time. Selfish, and I feel dreadful about that too.

It's only really since I've had my boys that I've started coming on this board and have learned sooo much. They are completely spoiled, have a huge cage, get loads and loads of fuss and probably spend far more time at the vets than they need too! (I'm a worrier).

My girls were over 2 1/2 (Lupin was nearly 3) when they died so I know I didn't do it ALL wrong.  They were very very loved, and not badly cared for, but I still get weepy when I think of things I could have done differently. Sometimes I wish I could have them back to say sorry for mistakes I made.

I'm rambling, and am probably being silly (and making people miserable!) - this is a kind of 'confession' I guess! Does anyone else ever wish they'd known as much when they had their first rats, as they do now?

We all learn new things every single day.  ;)

My first two rats, Nicky & Bert, were in a 10-gallon tank with pine. Eventually, I upgraded them to a "massive" 20-gallon tank when they started fighting.  ::) They got hamster food, too... but, like you, they lived to be 2 1/2, so I mustn't have done tooo badly. ;D

Hey, we all have to start somewhere -- boards like these weren't around when I started six years ago... it's one of the reasons I started the board in the first place.  ;D

Now my boys live in a palace, on a homemade diet, with a better environment and a more knowledgable mom.  ;D

Yes, definitely!

Our first two rats were patchwork girls that my daughter took in for someone who couldn't keep them any more.  They were on pine when they came to us, I did some research and quickly changed that, but like you Ali, didn' t recognise the signs of Myco.  Rubella died of pneumonia I think, we took her to the vet, but it was too late and Abby died a few months later.  I feel sad because they were fairly young - probably less than six months old when they died and they were very sweet girls.

I love my rats (ooops slip of the tongue - OUR rats ;) ), but I do sometimes feel there is a black cloud hanging over us, because their life span is so short and we are all so attached to them.

My first rat, Tybbie Lou, was squealing over a python tank, when I swooped in and said "My God!  I'll take her, please, stop!"  She came home with me in a cardboard box   :-\

She lived alone, on pine, in an aquarium or cage, depending on where we were.  I was a college student, so she did get a lot of out time, and really enjoyed eating my curtains :)  I was living overseas when she passed, but my mom (I will not have rodents in MY house) spent the whole evening holding her until she passed.  She had a good life, but it could've been better.   :)

Oh, Honey, absolutely! We do definitely live and learn. The first ratty I lost was Goblin, who was barely over a year old. He'd developed pneumonia, and although I knew about myco at that time, I'd taken him to a vet who didn't know squat about rats, as I found out all too late. She and her vet tech messed up Gobby's care so badly, and I didn't know any better. He was gone 5 days after I first took him to them. They gave me Baytril, but they'd put it in a huge syringe rigged with rubber bands and gave me a smaller feeding syringe to dose it in! They claimed this was the best way to do it. When the first batch they gave me ended up sprayed across the living room and soaked into the arm of the loveseat, however, I asked them to please give it to me in an injection vile with a regular syringe (which is how the wonderful vet we finally have now does it), but they refused, saying this was the best way. They replaced it in the same set-up. Plus, the dose they'd prescribed, as I found out the day after Gob died, was way too small to even be therapeutic!  And because of the stupid syringe they put it in, it had too much air contact and began to crystalize right away. I stupidly thought the whitish appearance was normal and continued squirting that crap down my baby's throat, thinking I was helping him. Sigh!

Five vets later, I've found one who is outstanding with my precious babies, and I've learned a thing or three myself about their care. I've lost a total of 6 ratties now (and currently have 5 others), but it's finally to a point where I know I don't have to feel so guilty anymore because I know I'm making good, educated decisions and working with a competent, caring vet and staff when it comes to caring for my ratties. But yep, I'll always carry the guilt of feeling I made some tragic mistakes with the first few that I lost.

my philosophy in life is that its not that we make mistakes that define a person, but how they learn from their mistakes and how they deal with the mistakes that they make. (and believe me, I have made some big ones in my life)

Touche, Knuckles, touche!  :)

I was actually thinking about this the other day.  I feel bad that my first 4 rats were males, all alone without a playmate, in aquariums with pine bedding and no toys.  I didn't know.  I do know that I loved Ben, Socrates, Milton and Jack.  I know that they loved me back despite my insufficiencies.  I am a better person having them in my life.

Boy, does reading all that make me feel better!

I made mistakes with my first ratties, too.   Namely that they were on pine and in a 10-gallon aquarium.  But the thing I feel the most guilty about is that when I had them I was working at the pet store, and I was encouraging people to get rats as pets, and was passing on the same misinformation to them.   Hopefully they have found Debbie D's book or something.   :-\

I lucked out on the vet aspect though.   The vet my mom used for her dogs happened to be a "Exotic Small Animal Specialist" and when I took one of my kids to have an abcess taken care of, he took one look at the pine bedding and proptly threw it away.  He said, use newspaper until you get something better.  Good vet!

I am sure hearing all our "Duh!" stories helps our friends that are new to ratland too.  See?  We all make the same mistakes!  

Thanks everyone. It sounds daft, but I sort of feel 'cleansed' ! You know how you worry about stuff - if I told anyone else how guilty I felt they'd think I was losing it.

I don't WANT anyone else to feel bad - but it's still good to know I'm not alone! I agree that ultimately it's how we learn from our mistakes that counts, and judging from the stories we hear about each others current rats, they're all pretty much living as Kings and Queens now!  :)

Yep, I was formerly one of those pine bedding, single rat, ten gallon aquarium people. Poor Patty lived like that for 4 months.

I feel so much better now, knowing how many of us started out that way !

Yep!  My first rat was Hoppy, about 5 or so years ago.  We didn't have the internet at teh time, so I had to rely on those "excellent" rat books you find around.

I got her from my aunt, who said I could have her as "payment" for some of the babysitting I did, since she didn't have enough time to play with her.  So, I brought her home in the cage she'd been made, which was about the size of a 20 gallon tank or so.

She was a single rat, housed on pine, and fed Kaytee rat/mouse seed mix.   :-\  Not the best living arrangements.  She did get a lot of out time though, and loved nibbling crackers on my shoulder, which also meant throwing crumbs down my shirt...   ::)  She was a silly gal, but the one that let my Mom know rats weren't evil.  Without her, I wouldn't have my girls!  She did live to be about 2 years old, which now seems incredible when I look at the way I cared for her.  I look back now, and it's almost like I feel I abused her, thoughbeit unintentionally.  Know what I mean?

What color would you call her?  She wasn't black, and I'm thinking maybe a blue?  Whatever she was, she was a sweetie!   :)
(http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Apr/20024174144601989084048.jpg)

I also started with one rat, Kujo, in a 10 g aquarium.  After a while she got a friend, Mijita, and a larger wire cage. But I kept them on cedar ( bad word here) or pine, and fed them gerbil food.  I honestly thought they looked like big gerbils, so they must be like them!  The thing that makes me feel the worst is that when I had them put down (because of tumors) I didn't even stay to hold them.  I thought I couldn't handle it, but now I feel that it was selfish of me.  Anyway, they also lived to be 21/2 each.  But don't worry what counts is you're doin it the best way you can now, right? I thank goodness for this forum, it has helped my rats and I out so much also!   ;)

yes, my first rat lived in pine shavings in a 20 gallon long tank all alone for almost a year! Actually the pine shavings only lasted a few months until I switched to aspen, but he was still all alone -Poor thing! Then i got him a bigger cage and friends. He's fine now, but I can't believe I made him live like that for a year!

Aileen writes all the nice sympathy stuff - I tend to stick to the more practical.
And from what you write, I think there are things you did which are entirely justified and for which you shouldn't be feeling guilty.

YOU WROTE
They were lab rats, about 3 months old, due to be gassed at the end of a biology project. I brought them home even though I didn't have the first idea about rats.
PJ:
Ali, you saved their lives - they would have had NO LIFE if it hadn't been for you.

YOU WROTE:
For the first month or so they were in a tiny 'starter' cage on pine.
PJ:
I'm going to have to find the source reference, but I have read elsewhere that the wood used for UK pet bedding is not the same as that used in the US, and doesn't contain the oils which cause respiratory irritation.

YOU WROTE:
I didn't recognise the signs of myco
AND
Lupin had a nasty lump appear under her  chin a couple of weeks before she died - the vet assumed it was just an extension of the tumour she had, saying that it was rare for rats to get abscesses, and I didn't question it.
PJ:
It was the VET who should have recognised the signs of myco and who should have been able to tell abcesses from tumours - that's THEIR job.
What you are highlighting is more a reflection on the lack of knowledge that VETS have of our little furries.

YOU WROTE:
Even though I gave them an hour out of their cage a day I didn't spend much more time with them other than that
PJ:
I'm leaving myself open to a barrage of responses here,
but I'd be surprised if anybody felt that was unreasonable - even for people on this Forum who are rat-savvy.
(Yes, I know there are some who allow free-range, but.....)

YOU WROTE:
For her last 3 months Lupin was on her own and quite low - I didn't get her a new pal
PJ:
I'm sure there are times when having a loved and cared-for solo rat is a happier situation than the potential trauma of a new introduction (especially if the 'solo' is older.)

YOU WROTE:
I still get weepy when I think of things I could have done differently
PJ:
What about all the things you did WONDERFULLY to make those wee ratties' lives better than their previous EXISTENCE in a LABORATORY?

You are a good, caring mum and you clearly were back then as well.
Of course there's stuff you could have done differently with hindsight - but that's not within our abilities.

Paul

I also adopted a lab rat rather than let her die. You have to be happy that you saved their life! I will never forget Chloe's(the lab rat) when I brought her home and introduced her to other rats. She wouldn't leave the others alone for 3 months!! Unfortunately lab rats have absolutely no immune system since they are normally kept in perfectly sterile environments. She lived about a year and a half, but that was a lot longer than she ever would have. It didn't seem to matter how much meds we gave her, she eventually went to the other side.

You've all made me feel so much better - hopefully those of you harbouring guilt feelings feel better too!

I guess it's true than Poppy and Lupin at least HAD  a life, which they wouldn't have done otherwise.

Thank goodness we all now have each other and this forum!!

My first rat was also kept in a 10 gallon tank on woodshavings. She was bought from a pet shop when she was almost adult size, and she must have had a lonely life. I didn't let her out nearly as much as I should have, because she never seemed to want to come out to me.
After she died I eventually bought three boys. This time the pet shop staff told me they were better off with a friend, so I took all three because I didn't want to leave one alone. I still manage to feel guilty about them, though, because we had a baby a year later, and my mum talked me into giving them away because they were unhygienic. Says who? (The baby is now 14).
This time I'm going to do everything properly. Our new boys have the biggest cage I can afford, they come out to play every day, and I have no intention of ever parting from them for as long as they'll stick around. It has occurred to me before that I'm trying to ease my guilt about my past rats.

We've all made mistakes, haven't we? I'm trying to deal with it by (a) knowing I'm not alone (which helps A LOT!) and (b) knowing that if it hadn't been for my girls (who I learned from) I would never have had rats in my life and wouldn't have 'rescued' these 3 boys from the rescue centre.

Rattycorner - you talking about giving your rats away when you had a child leads me to another confession.....! I have a 5-year old stepson who I have been with since he was a baby and who I love dearly and feel privileged to have in my life - I'd like my own child (I'm coming up for 35 this year), but I worry about the time I'd have to give up with my rats!! Crazy, eh!! I know people who have given their cats or other pets away when they've got pregnant and I just couldn't do it!!! (Please don't think I'm judging you because you did - I can understand why people could be persuaded into doing it, and rats are VERY time consuming).

I couldn't admit how I feel to a soul apart from you guys (even my partner!) because it sounds so totally mad! We don't have a lot of money, or much room in the flat - all valid considerations when you're planning a baby - and yet my biggest worry would be my rats!

Yep, I'm definitely going to end up a smelly old spinster surrounded by rats and cats!! (Oh, and a dog when I get a house with a garden!)

This has been an extremely cathartic 'session' for me - hope it's been good for the rest of you too!!

indeed, my first rat was a feeder, 10 gallon tank, by herself, pine litter, and hamster seed... although I DID add cat food to the seed, as well.. bahh..  

I eventually started reading about them and changed it all, nice wire cage, got a friend, switched to aspen, then ultimately to carefresh, etc etc etc..

I still feel bad to this day...

My first ratties I kept in a 15L tank hidden(read covered up with little air circulation :o) in my closet hiding them from my mom, on ceder too.  They both died before they were 1 1/2, one I had to put to sleep because of a myco infection in her uterus.

Like Suebee all my ratkins...there's alot, as I decided to become a breeder after a ton of research and education on my part....now live in spacious cages with proper litter, and most of the time eat better then I do! ;D

I think we all will have made mistakes my first rats lived alone which must of made them lonely and the cage was not really very good. Now some 15 years later My rats have good cage with good company. And Paul if can find out about uk wood shaving that would be excellent as the catty litter is hard and I`m sure they would prefer the shavings if it is safe for them.

You bet I sometimes feel guilty! I didn't know that rats were happiest being with another rattie or more. When I got Mr. Jingles my son and I played with him a lot and then we found (drum roll) The Rat Fan Club and discovered they should be kept in pairs.

But I'm feeling better because at the end of June we will acquire a new little rattie ;D

I...can't...wait!

My Mom is pregnant with twins, and will be turning 38 right around their dute date.  (THey are due July 28, and she turns 38 Aug 4).  Never say never!  lol

I totally understand what you mean about worrying about time demands and not being able to give them what they need.  I've never been a big fan of having kids (course, I am only 19...  Well, 19 in a couple weeks anyway), and since Mom is having twins (one of each!) I figure I can get the parenting experience, or at least some of it, in now, at an age where I wills till be able to remember things like that when I'm older.  I hope that made sense...  lol

I've always been an animal junkie, and I don't think I could ever part with any of my babies, regardless of the reason.  There was one point where I was so unhappy at home I would have run away, but I couldn't leave the animals behind.  Some people would call that crazy, I call it devoted.  :)  I think one of the biggest reasons I have for not wanting kids (aside from the whole surplus human population) is because it would take so much time out of my day, and I wouldn't be able to do as much with my fur babies.  I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't play with them!

Honestly, I've made few mistakes with my first bunch, but it is only cuz I found all of you before I got em! *hugs to everyone with two for suebee!*

As far as kids go, I want 3. but they will be after I get out of vet school and have a job set. And they'll be those little dirty kids with the best immune system out of everyone cuz they'll be running around with all the dogs, rats, cattle, donkeys, horses, etc. I will own! My kids will be raised surrounded by animals, I wouldn't have it any other way! (besides the fact I plan to work at a zoo which will add an even bigger amount of animals to their lives!)

   I'm so very glad Mandy found this group, and pointed me to it when she converted me. My rats are gonna be so well cared for when I get them, they won't know what to do...toys, the 48"x24"x36" cage I'm gonna build, toys, good food, toys, proper bedding, toys, friends to play with, toys, etc.
  Thanks all of ya'll! My ratties will be all the happier because of ya'll.

-Joe

ya...took y first rattie, Sam, everywhere on my shoulder.  And one day, we walked into the garage to take out the garbage...and she went kersplat and died.  Not to mention she lived alone in a ten gal with pine.

I feel guilty as hell because I was not keeping a proper eye on my Rat Jodie on Tuesday night when she fell off the wardrobe and the huge Rat ball landed on her.
She now has what the vet said was a twisted spine and I don't know if she will recover the full use of her back legs and her tail is limp and may need to be amputated to stop her chewing it off.

I am going to seek out another vet as this is the first time I have had to go to the vet with a Rat as I have only had them 3 Months and I was not to sure about him. I was running my finger down her spine and she has a bone protruding so I want a second opinion for my wee baby.

Apart from that I researched the web before I got my rats and learned as much as I could. I also found this great forum called the Rat Fan Club Forum with so many nice people and that has helped me alot with my understanding of my Ratties needs. The forum is the first place I log onto when I go on the web, to see what all these great peeps have to say.

But I think I?ll feel guilty forever for not keeping a proper eye on Jodie and it nearly brings me to tears watching her struggle to walk and I have been up a least 4 times a night during the past 2 days to check she is ok.