Goosemoose Pet Portal

I don't know where to put this thread, but the title says it all.   There's one pet shope here with a 4 week old dumbo boy that's been there for a week already (so at three weeks old).  He's the only little guy in his cage and the store folks says he's fine and isn't too young.  AHH, so, I told my b.f. we had to get him.  But how do you take care of a four week old rattie who's alone, prob depressed (I'd be), and has been eating...basically bird seed with a few corn flakes. 

The other shop has at least 4 full litters that range from 3-6 weeks.  At least these little guys and gals aren't alone but they're in 5-10 gallon aquariums with between 5-10 other babies.  These folks don't get corn flakes, they get bird seed with a few pieces of dog chow. 

If I were to pick a few new ratties, would there be anything particular to thier young age I'd need to be aware of.  I also have to consider my 3 terrific rattie boys now so that I'd have the time to love them all.  ack, and which pet store, my heart goes out to the little boy all alone. 

I don't have advice on the baby rats themselves, but which ever you choose...don't forget quarantine so nothing gets passed onto your current rattie boys :).

The fact that in both stores they are being fed bird seed and they are too young to be sold too young already shows me that they don't give a damn about the rats. And having 4 litters at the same time, crowded in aquariums makes me want to smack these guys. Chances are (since they don't care) that the rats are already sick and females pregnant.
So iI don't know if you want to support a bad pet store and deal with sick rats.
Sorry, but I hate pet stores.

If you decide to get the one dumbo and another one from the other pet store I agree with undergunfire. They rats have to be quarantineed away from each other (different homes) and then do a proper intro.

I am sure somebody else can help you with raising a 4 week old rat.

I would choose neither.

It's heartbreaking to see rats living in such conditions, but the fact is that buying from pets stores only increases the demand and brings more rats into that squalor.

Where do you live?  People in Australia and the UK don't need to quarantine like we do in North America.

A baby that has been weaned at 3 weeks will be fine, its a horrible practice but done all the time.  Breeders and even people with ooops litters usually remove the boys before 5 weeks of age, and leave the girls in with mom and she will wean them herself or when they get adopted out they will be weaned.  I got Dilbert when he was 3 weeks old, and he was fine.  He had been syringe fed for a week by his previous "owner".  A 3 weeker is quite capable of growing up just fine, just start on good nutrition right away, I would supplement to give him some extra nutrition during his growing phase.

As for taking care of him?  Take him home or to his QT(quarantine) home if you are able.  Make sure he is given everything he needs, get to know him, socialize him and get him to know you.  Then when he's old enough and his QT has passed then introduce him to your boys.  Babies are soo easy to introduce and its the best bet for other older males.   ;D

Since he's lonely and unstimulated where he is, he'll probably blossom in your care and soak up the love like a sponge once he gets it figured out in his poor head.

she wont be in aus because we dont have dumbos  :-[

I'm in upstate NY.  And why don't ppl in the UK and Aust. have to to quarentine?

They don't have the same problems with the same infectious diseases (SDA, Sendai, etc) we have to be soo careful about here.  :(  Australia has a very strict no-import law so that nothing can be introduced.  Do I have my facts straight everyone?  As injectionofyou says, they don't have dumbos and have limited colours over there as well.

Where in Upstate, NY? I'm from Johnstown...now living in Arizona. I remember going to the Rotterdam Mall or Crossgate's (you may know where they are) when I was a little kid....and seeing all the rodents in the cages with signs on them saying "Shhh...we're expecting babies!". It was always sad how they did that. They probably still do :(

In the wild, if a rat were to get pregnant on her post-partum heat she would be having another litter of pups at three weeks and thus the first litter would need to be weaned. Yeah, it is young and not ideal for the babies, but they can get along fine at 3 weeks. In research, we try to wait until they are 4 weeks as we don't breed back to back, but some litters get weaned at 3 weeks because there are so many of them mom just needs a break. They all do fine.

Actually Kati, the post-partum pregnancy is the one that can go up to 28 days to give the present litter more of a chance.

Eh, just going by what the rat experts here in our lab say. They are in the business of breeding rats. *shrugs* Regardless, when we wean at 3 weeks we never have a problem.

Can you intro a young rat to 3 rats (11 months) todgether since birth?

Yes, but very carefully.  Don't just plop them all together, even on neutral territory.  The 2 older rats could overwhelm or gang up on the baby.  Let them meet baby one at a time on neutral territory and if everything goes well you can try with two older rats, then all three and gradually try them in other less neutral spots before they go in the cage together.

I know people have a good argument when they say how you would support a bad pet store if you bought rats from them, but you are also rescuing a rat from a bad situation. Many times, careless owners buy rats and believe everything the pet store says. Would you rather have a rat have a good life, or end up with someone like this? Just something to think about.

Also, introducing a baby that young to adult rats shouldn't really be done at the risk of losing the baby. I would wait until he is about 6 or 5 weeks old when he is fully able to stand up for himself if they do try to attack him.

It is heart wrenching for sure, but when you buy a rat from a bad petstore situation, the store makes money,  you've shown them there is market demand, a consumer willing to purchase "a product" in such condition, and you've just given them more room to put at least one more rat into the exact same bad situation.  I just don't see how that is being part of the solution. 

Unless you are willing, make an attempt, and are able to make life better for ALL the rats (present and future) in that cruddy store (eg. by gaining a receptive ear of the store's powers-that-be and educating),  then walk away.  It hurts like hell, but walk away.   :'(

Buying one rat to condemn another is irresponsible and careless ownership in itself.

It's not pretty no matter how you slice it.

Robin

You have be be careful giving out advice like this that scares people away and spreading ill researched advice which only spreads around like wildfire.  By the time she QTs the bub he would be 7 weeks.  Irregardless even if she didn't QT him and tried to intro him at an early age it is very possible to do without "Losing the Baby".  Male rats are not all aggressive beasts to anyone new.  There are a lot of males out there who are very nurturing and can take a small bub like this under their paw.  Should she do proper intros which are slow and well supervised.  YES.  But the intros are definitely doable and will probably be the easiest intro she will ever have to do since the older males won't see a 7 week old bub as a threat to them.  Sorry just hate to see stuff like this spread.  That is how you end up with people commenting that you should never put two males together they will kill eachother kind of comments which yes I have gotten plenty of times before.

Staci

Edited to add:  I second not buying from these bet stores just cuz you want to save them.  Find a rescue near you and save those guys!  The only time I am ok with buying from petstores is if you have looked all over high and low and can't find any other rats to rescue. 

Well said. You may be rescuing this one rat, or two rats. But your "rescuing" may result in an entire litter more to be born because of "demand". Pet stores don't think in terms of lives, they think in terms of product. Supply and demand. You purchase a rat, your increasing demand. Increase demand, and the petstore increases the supply. Its absolutely heart breaking to walk away, but if everyone walked away more lives would be saved. Its sick and disgusting, but we have to "sacrifice" the few, to save the many.

That said, I have done it. Fairly recently in fact, back in October... I let my emotions get the best of me when I saw a girl that looked EXACTLY like one of my ratties that has since passed on. Good and bad has come from it though. I love Anna and wouldnt trade her for anything, but she was very ill when I bought her. However, I got her from a feed store that I frequent. I often talk to the manager and owner about rats as pets. Since I purchased Anna, the manager has changed around the rat conditions. They were all kept together as feeders in the back before (they ARE on carefresh). Now, when an "order" of rats comes in, the manager picks out the most social rats and seperates them. He handles them daily, and recommends them as pets to anyone looking at small animals. I would MUCH prefer them stopping carrying rats (so would the manager in fact, he recommends feeding frozen), but the situation is better than it was.

Here's some interseting info:  when visiting the site of the rescue I got my boys from, it says...
* We are getting many calls and emails from people asking about a local Rochester pet store who is selling Dumbo rat babies far too young. Here is the answer, if you think they look too young - they probably are! That is proof of pet store irresponsibility and animal abuse. All rat babies must be at least 6-8 weeks old to be fully weaned and ready for human adoption.

and later in the FAQ section there's a pretty fired-up arguement against this same store.  The other big ol' pet store on the same road actually has the rescue's flyers up. 

I can't see that purchasing one rat, when 8 others have been purchased is adding tremendously to the demand.  O.k., perhaps I can, but perhaps that bit of harm is worth it.  We just studied this in philosophy.  Wanted to add though that I found an add last night at one of the local colleges of a college kid with an oops litter, who has the parents on premises.  I am going to go check the little bubs at the store today, so please don't anyone shoot thunderbolts at me if I happen to come home with another.

The point is, if everybody thinks that way then nothing is ever going to change. It's like voting--one person says their vote isn't going to count so why bother, but think of how many people say that? The result is that a large percentage of the population doesn't vote. Your best bet is to stop buying from pet stores and educate others as well.

Petstores are good on playing at peoples emotions. Those around here are notorious for not feeding their dogs enough so they look pitiful and skinny. People think, "Oh I want to take it home and make it healthy." So they buy it and the petstore makes profit and room for another.

And they do the same with the rodents, "They are so overcrowded, if I took just one home they'd be more comfortable and I'd be saving one." Just as was said before.. you might think your doing it once isn't a problem, but there are tons of people who are thinking that same thing. We all have a tendency to think that we are the only ones that will do something, especially something we find noble, but it's not so. For every baby that is in that aquarium there could be 2 people thinking they should save one. And many a person is glad when they go to find that they are all gone.

I personally, would go back to a rescue. You are supporting a place that loves rats and cares for them properly. They spend their own time and money and sometimes heartache to help out rats that have been pets before, or the offspring of those pets. You'd be helping out several other rats who will one day bring joy to someone else's life.

You can't save them all, but you can help others who devote their time to saving them. And that can make all the difference in the world. Save one rat from a rescue, they have room for another to be rescued in turn. It's a sure thing. Save one rat from a petstore.. they have room for however many more they think they need to order who will be snake food or maybe a pet, but uncomfortable all the same as a result of how many they feel the need to buy for stock.

I can understand when one person replies to me like that, but I don't need several people. Please let that die. I understand what I said you do not agree with and I respect that. And I admit the thing about the bub may've been not true with all rats, but I was just making a generalization. Please go on with your replying. I did not mean to offend anyone.

Don't sweat it, Sockmonk, faithsstuff asked which store to choose from, so it was bound to bring out a number of anti-bad-store posts.  It wasn't said just to your reply.  :)

faithsstuff, where ever you get/got your new baby from, we all want to see him grow up big and strong and live a long long time.   It's easier said than done sometimes, not to give in to that pathetic bubbie...we know that side of it all too well, too.  That's why a lot of us must be very strict with ourselves and not go near stores that sell rats.   I know I'd probably be a goner.


Robin

I understand wanting to take the babies home.  I took home three boys that I had watched for months in a ten gallon tank with a broken wheel as their brothers all got sold as snake food.  I knew that I couldn't keep taking rats from petstores home because one, I don't have all that room, and two, it absolutely does support the pet store.  But I had already seen the rats and decided to help.  My solution after the fact was to NEVER walk into that petstore again, nor any other that keep rats in conditions anywhere like that.  I say take the little boy home and never ever ever go back.  But take the little boy home.

I would take the little boy too, if you have the room....and then never go back, like Maxxsgirl said. The little pet store around the corner from me has baby rats and they are so tempting since this pet store keeps them on either pine or cedar (not sure which one)...and they are sold for snake food or pets (I guess). I don't think alot of people go in there for rats for pets, since they can just go to PetsMart or Petco. I sometimes forget that little pet shop is even there.

Anyway...when I do go there, which is hardly ever (I've been there twice since in a year)...I always see the little rats and the larger rats and want to take them because I know they are being sold for snakes. I was in there once and I saw a man with a container of mice and baby rats and I asked him if they were pets, and he said they were for his snake :(.



Besides...my boyfriend won't even let me go look at the rats in pet stores anymore.....he drags me clear away from them. I no longer get mad at him for doing so...I guess he saves me from the "cute baby ratties" trance.