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Noticed a couple days ago that Peanut had a head tilt.  Otherwise acting fine... eating, playing, boggling, peeing everywhere...  The next day I thought it had gone away... it was just that slight.  Yesterday I realized it was definitely a tilt, and it is effecting her balance (though still eating, playing, boggling, and peeing everywhere). 

She has an appointment for Monday... the vet is out til then.

Question:  Should I see about starting her up on anything such as prednisone in the meantime, or will she be fine to wait until Monday?

Thanks a ton. 

Last note... I believe Peanut will be two in March.

If you have baytril and/or prednisone at home, I'd go ahead and start her on it. Head tilts from inner ear infections can go downhill in a matter of hours. It certainly won't hurt her if it turns out it's not the right treatment. Be sure to keep your appointment, even if you see some improvement.

I agree... starting antibiotics as soon as possible is also important!  To keep it from worsening.  The pred will help to bring down any inflammation, but if it is due to an ear infection you want to nip that in the bud.  Ear infections can take weeks of antibiotic treatment even when you catch it promptly.

I would start on a low end dose of the pred, and a higher end dose of the baytril.

Thanks, guys!

Talked to the vet since Peanut seems to be getting a little worse... starting her on smz-tmp and metacam tonight... wants to try a non-steroidal first.

Pred, which is in the corticosteroid family, works much better for head tilts than metacam.  If you check out Rat Guide they recommend that for such things as tilts associated with ear infections and the like.

Ear infection link about pred
http://ratguide.com/health/auricle_ear/otitis_media_otitis_interna_labyrinthitis.php

Pred link
http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/prednisone_prednisolone.php


If you've already started her on metacam, I beleive you'll want to wait 24hours in between dose of metacam given and 1st pred dose as they have interactions and can cause problems.

Hope Peanut is feeling better soon!

When my Norbu got an ear infection my vet tried an NSAID first. I regret not going straight to the Prednisone as it didn't do anything for him and caused him to have a worse permanent tilt in the end. If you have Pred I'd do that -- it's best to start with the big guns with these things. :-\

Eek... I wonder why they want to go with an NSAID first?

Thanks, guys!

How's Peanut doing?

Beat me to it, Jen!

Just got back from the vet with Peanut.  The smz-tmp and metacam are not working, and her balance is getting worse.  She also has a squinty eye.

The vet said her ears look fine... everything looks/sounds fine... we trimmed her bottom teeth... and we're starting her on baytril and pred instead of the metacam and smz!

Here's to hoping it's not a pituitary tumor!!

Poor Peanut!  Hope she feels better on the baytril and pred.

OOpsie, wrong rat LOL  :yelcutelaugh:

You will know soon enough.  Poor Peanut.

I'm worried it very well may be a tumor or lesion considering her ears were clear. 

Waiting to hear back from the vet.  She thought I had 15mg/5mL pred and gave me a .2cc once a day dose... but I've really got the 5mg/5mL pred.  Oops :)

I think Peanut actually spat out the baytril on me.. lol... at least .1 of it! She got another .1 since it didn't make it in.

Peanut is supposed to get .6cc of pred.  :D  That's a LOT of pred!

Is that once a day or twice a day?

Sounds like she is ranging on the high end of the spectrum if the pred is 5mg/5ml.  Thats the kind of pred I use and Beans was the only one we had on a high dosage at one point due to lung problems.

Only reason I ask is that once or twice a day for the 0.6 cc pred, because I can see once a day at that dosage, twice a day is HIGH for that dosage.  Also personally, if it is once a day, splitting that dosage into giving her 0.3 cc twice a day would be a VERY good idea.  Pred is like antibiotics in that you want to keep them at the same levels of the meds in their bodies for a length of time.  Dosing a rat once a day with ANY kind of medication is not the best of ideas because they have such high metabolism that its out of their system in a few hours.

from ratguide.com

if oral solution of 1mg/1 mL then give 0.25ml to 1 mL/lb 4

I would put her on the lower dose of pred SID and a very high dose of baytril for the inner ear infection.  Inner ear infections often cannot be seen/smelt because it is soo deep.   Peanut doesn't seem to have the symptoms that say PT, but its still the same, pred (doesn't have to be a super high dose like yours) and abs.

Jen- once daily

So a higher dose of baytril once daily and possibly split the pred into two .3cc portions?

Usually the vet prescribes twice a day for abs and steroids, so I'm not sure why the change now!

Any tips on seeing if Peanut is drinking enough?  She doesn't seem dehydrated (did the skin test thing), but I haven't seen her at the water buddy.  I can't rely on the levels, because she somehow keeps letting the bottle leak and soak the blanket in the carrier!  She must be leaning against it or something :doh:

Try a non-tippable bowl? 

News! I caught the stinker drinking this morning :)  Again, she soaked the blanket... and I don't know how... I just heard her drinking this morning before I turned on the lights to get out of bed.

I don't think there is any improvement today.

Regarding meds and doses and timing... my vet has always prescribed baytril and pred to be given twice a day except for this case.  Perhaps there's a reason??  Maybe she wants to hit whatever it is hard with the once a day doses??

I think Peanut is getting worse.

I cannot tell if it's her balance or if she's having trouble with her front and/or back legs.

She isn't using her hands to eat.  She's pushing her head on the ground most of the time when she's walking about.  She's falling over more... and seems to have a hard time righting herself.

She's still the hyper Peanut I know and love, but she is having a hard time.

The vet thinks these new problems indicate more toward the neurological side.

Any advice or anything I can do for my girly?

I just looked at the pituitary tumor section on ratguide.  Peanut is doing the thing the first rat example is doing... shoveling her babyfood around with her face when trying to eat it.  She made a huge mess last night while trying to eat her medicated babyfood.

Here's the link to see the video of that rat: http://ratguide.com/health/figures/pituitary_tumor_figure_1.php

I am probably going to try to get a video of Peanut after I get home from lab this afternoon.

Awe, I am so sorry ratlets. ((hugs))

I'm so sorry about Peanut. :( I forget the name of the medication that lilspaz used on her girl with PT - dex? Maybe you can switch to that and hopefully there will be a difference? *hugs*

dexamethasone is the drug lilspaz normally uses.  I think it is a form of pred, not sure exactly

Hey Ratlets,

Aww I am sorry to hear about Peanut.  That was my Maya who was in that sad video.  I wonder if I cried in that particular one?

It definitely sounds like PT/neuro involvement. :(

Your gal is on pred right now?  I use dexamethasone which is a similar steroid but longer duration, and faster acting.  But pred will do the trick too. 

It sounds like she is advancing quickly. ((hugs))

The pred seems to be having no effect on her.

I have a question...

Should I set up my "bachelor pad" one-level cage for her and give her a buddy (I'm thinking Bandit, the second-oldest, and the least likely to steal her food/pick on her)?    Or should I leave her in the cat carrier I've got her in now?

I would set her up with Bandit.  She will want the comfort of a ratfriend.  I would advise letting Bandit run with her regular cagemates when they come out, so it won't be hard to integrate her back later on.

I also have a girl who presented with a head tilt, and now has progressed to classic symptoms of PT.  She responded to her dex/baytril cocktail luckily.

Are you going to wean her off the pred and see if she has a regression?  Often you cannot tell if the pred/steroid is actually helping them maintain.

Would weaning her off pred be a good idea?

I put Bandit on the bed with Peanut last night while I read a book for my history class.  The most trouble they got into was Bandit grooming Peanut... but I think Peanut is just a crybaby.  Afterall, she is the one that squeaks like you're pulling her tail off when someone looks at her while she's eating.

I put Bandit back in the cage with the others before I went to bed.  I couldn't sleep, so I kept letting Peanut out of her carrier if she wanted out.  She would run around on top of the covers.  I put her under the covers and she plopped her butt down on the floor and went under the bed.  Classic Peanut!

Wouldn't necessarily be a good idea but if you said its doing nothing?

Here's a video of my Peanut munching on treats and moving around.  You might wanna put it on mute to avoid having to listen to me LOL

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/warriah/Rats2/th_15-02-08_1723.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/warriah/Rats2/?action=view&current=15-02-08_1723.flv)

Keep her on the pred.  She looks like classic PT to me, and that the pred is making her much more alert and cheerful, and happy. 

Thanks, Shelagh :)  She does seem like a happy girl... and still full of energy like always.

Bandit and Peanut are cuddling in the carrier.  Going to put the bachelor pad cage together when I can find a good palce in my room to put it.  Currently in the process of moving into a bigger room, so I might wait until I'm in there.

Do pituitary tumors grow fast or will Peanut's condition worsen quickly?  Or is there any way of telling... as in different in every case?

Well I know of PT's that go in 24 hours (bleeding adenoma I believe?, I am totally pre-coffee at the moment and can't look it up) and some that last 3-5 days, and my Ariel who lasted 5 weeks then I also know of some rats living now with PT for months and months...each case depends.  I have my fingers crossed your sweet brave girl is the latter type (http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/GIFs%20/fav%20gifs/hugs.gif)

Thank you, again, Shelagh.  You've been amazingly helpful!

My Peanut wouldn't let me hold a lab block for her last night.  She kept jerking it out of my hands and taking it away to eat it. lol.  Stubborn stinker!

Took Peanut to the vet's to weigh her as she's too wiggley for my scale.

She has lost 40 grams in a week.  Any advice?

She wasn't exactly at an ideal weight before... she had a bit of a back-end, but now she looks to be a normal weight (slim).

Edit:  I put her and Bandit in my one (and a half)-level cage yesterday afternoon (had to wait to move into a bigger room in the house).  I decorated it with hammocks that have sort of a stair-step arrangement to get from one to another, and put the half-level on the lowest setting.  There was a big puddle of water under the bottle's nozzle this morning (on the half-level), so I believe Peanut is getting around just fine.  Bandit doesn't leave puddles... Peanut does due to her inability to balance.

bump

Taking her sometime this week to get her teeth trimmed again.  I think she may be having difficulties keeping them down... she does brux and boggle quite a bit, though. 

As for nutrition, try getting some nutrical, and giving her that a few strips a day.  Its very high calorie, but in the case of the sick kids you want them to get some more calories especially if she is not eating well to begin with.  Also try some instant baby oatmeal/cereal, I make that to tempt mine that are off food.  Adding a small amount of peanut butter to the warm cereal and mixing it in is usually a good temptation.  Also try seeing if she will have some ensure, and you can always mix the ensure in with the baby cereal too!

Thanks, Jen!  I'll try those suggestions!

Pretty much anything that is of the soft texture and they are willing to eat it, they get when they are not feeling so well.

Quick question...

Has anyone else seen the lower jaw being pushed to one side or the other in rats with pituitary tumors?  Peanut's is pushed slightly to the right, which is the side her head tilts to.

No not with PT.  For some reason I recall Shelagh talking about this....one of her girls had jaw issues.....pm'ing this over to her so she can catch it.

Sent lilspaz a pm, but I also ran a quick search here is her old link:

http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4032234.0

Are Peanut's teeth crooked so she needs them trimmed?  bruxxing is a sign of PT as well.

Peanut's teeth are straight (as far as I can tell), but they were too long... she was bumping them into treats/lab blocks when trying to eat.

Her nosey isn't pushed to the side like in the link, but her jaw is offset just like Kerfuffle's was although nowhere near as severe (and on the opposite side).

One thing.  Before you go getting her teeth trimmed.  What you're saying with her "bumping" her teeth into treats and lab blocks screams pt to me.  They can lose coordination not only of holding the food but actually the chewing action itself.

If her teeth are straight then there's no need for trimming whatsoever...

Yeah the confusion esp. with their mouths is another classic sign.

Thanks, guys :)

Her teeth were starting to stay separated again on the bottom.  They were much longer than the other ratties, too.  Interesting that the bumping is a symptom! Never would have considered that.

Interesting info!  My boy Ramses, who passed away this time last year, had this same issue.  I never really found out if he suffered from a stroke or PT, but this is a sign that he had as well.  I was syringe feeding him at the end (also partly because he had no use of his hands).

ratlets, you do know that a rats bottom mandible is not actually solid, its joined by a little cartilege making it flexible and thats why the bottom teeth will splay like that.  Only if the teeth are actually crooked should you trim since it can be a stressful procedure if its unneccessary.  Forget how long they seem to you, just look to make sure they align properly.

I do know the structure of the mandible.  I looked at all my other rats' teeth... none of which were separated (unless bruxing/boggling)... and none of which were anywhere near as long as Peanut's.  I guess the trimming could be seen as pre-cautionary, since she doesn't appear to be able to wear them down herself.  I'll leave her teeth alone from now on unless they seem to cause problems (like I thought of the bumping :doh:).

Thanks!

How's Peanut doing these days?

Thanks for asking, Jen!

Peanut seems to be getting worse but slowly.  Her balance/coordination is worsening.  She does better on the carpet on the floor than on my blankets on the bed... I imagine due to grip.

She ate much less Ensure yesterday than previous days.  I tried offering her some babyfood with crushed lab block mixed in, but she kept getting her nose and face all in it.  She actually gave up on it herself.  It seemed like torture as she wanted so badly to eat it, but she couldn't. 

I went out today and got some vanilla-flavored Ensure Plus... it has more fat and protein in it than the high protein banana-flavored Ensure I've been giving her.

I'm doing my best to take care of her, but now I'm sick with pneumonia (again).  Thanks for keeping Peanut in your thoughts!!

When my Ninlin got bad with her PT I had to syringe feed her 3-4x per day 10-15 syringes full, or the most she would take.  If Peanut isn't able to co-ordinate feeding, you may have to help.  Ninlin really enjoyed being fed (especially since it was chocolatey delicious ^_^), so hopefully that may work well for you too.
The next clue to watch out for is when they want the food from the syringe, but have trouble swallowing/licking and/or don't try chewing on the syringe tip.  It wasn't long after that I had Ninlin PTS.

Thanks!

I've been feeding her out of an eye dropper.  It's been going well so far!

Little update:

I thought before the last trimming that Peanut's bottom teeth overlapped her top teeth... in otherwords, they were in front of her top teeth.  I confirmed this today.  They don't always overlap, but they do now and then.  Her top teeth are also looking to be slightly separated.  They are also slanted... top and bottom... since her jaw is offset slightly.

Going to be taking her to the vet to see about trimming... on her advice or yours, guys! 

Appreciate all the help.  If you guys know of anything else I can do for her that I haven't already, I'd appreciate it.  She's liking her new Ensure flavor, and she is still a hyper girl when I put her on the bed.  When in the cage, she rests.

Yesterday and today, I have not been able to get anything into Peanut.  She goes for the dropper, gets it in her mouth, but doesn't chew or suck on it like she usually does.  I have been trying to slowly let some ensure in her mouth, but, as far as I can tell, it's just coming right back out.  I'm not sure if she can swallow.  She can't lick stuff up... her tongue seems to be pushed permanently toward the right side of her mouth.

She's still got a load of energy.  I've been trying to keep her clean... washing urine, etc, off, and trying to keep her eyes and wrists clean of poryphin, but I think it stresses her out even more than she already is.  I think it's necessary to keep her bottom clean, however, as the urine just cakes on.

I'm guessing she's getting close to the end if she can't eat.  She just seems so full of energy, still, but I don't know if it's good or bad in nature.

My advice is to have her PTS.  She will only begin suffering, and there's no chance she'll improve.  Out of love, it's the best thing you could ever do for her  :heart:

I had this problem before as well.  Once my rat stopped eating I took her to be pts.  It was horrible but her balance was so out of whack she had to roll before she'd get to her feet.  She would only eat yogurt or something soft like that.  It's hard, so hard but if she isn't eating, it might just be time.  Best of luck

Oh, ratlets, I'm so sorry Peanut has gotten to this point.  I won't tell you to have her PTS, as you know her better than anyone.  If she can get fluid and food in, and she seems happy, let her be (just protect her from the bad balance).  (((hugs))) for you.  :heart:

Today at the vet's, Peanut got an injectable, long-lasting (3 week) steroid and sub-q fluids.  She also had her teeth trimmed (necessary).

A couple hours after the visit, and Peanut was able to eat again!  She's also able to walk around with much more ease!  I guess I wasn't getting enough prednisone in her afterall!

Peanut seems happier already :)

Oh... the bad news.  She's still dropping weight.  Another 30g this last week.  She's down to 300g from 400g.

Yay Peanut! Hopefully with the extra energy she has gotten after the steroids and hydration, she'll be able to eat more and bulk up a bit. :heart:

Go, Peanut!  :icon_cheers:

Yay, I'm so happy Peanut is doing better!!!  :hyper:

I'm glad to hear Peanut is feeling better.

Might want to ask your vet if the injection she gave is something you can give orally, once a week or every few days.

No sterioid injection lasts for 3 weeks.

Just going with what the vet said about the duration of the steroid.  Perhaps that's only as often as they will administer it?
Mom just told me she used to get steroid injections into her knee which lasted 6 weeks each time.  I'll trust my vet that this one's going to last the 3... and hopefully it does!  Peanut's like a new ratty, almost!

Peanut's still doing great.  She's running around dribbling (marking) on everything again, and is even able to groom her face with both her front and back feet.  She can stand, run (walk quickly? lol), and even munched on a lab block while I held it for her.  She's still getting her Ensure Plus as a staple, however.  I'm soaking a lab block as a test for her for later.

 :BlueDumboSmile:  I wish Peanut a speedy recovery!

The last two or three days, Peanut's balance has been bad-off again.  She's leaning far to the right and is having extreme difficulty standing/walking.  We added prednisone twice a day to see if it helps, but it hasn't.

Despite that, she was eating vigorously and just fine until this morning.  She wants to eat... but she's unable to move her mouth/tongue/swallow or something like she was doing up until now.

Took her to the vet's to get 5cc's of fluids and learned how to restrain her to do so in case I need to give her fluids this weekend.

She could have developed diabetes from the tumor. It is not a sugar diabetes... I forget the exact issues it causes, but, if that's the case, the fluids could be more important than just for hydration!  Aha... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_insipidus

I'm giving her a break to rest right now and will try feeding again soon to see if the fluids made any difference.

I would say her PT progression is on track.  She won't bounce back one of these days...sadly this is a normal state for rats suffering from PT. :(

sorry ratlets. :(

I'm so sorry to hear Peanut is having such rough time again.  :(

Hey guys :) I appreciate all the info and help.

I'm getting some Ensure in her again.  Slowly, but surely!  She really wants to eat, so it just requires a little patience on both our parts.

Going to see about giving her more fluids tonight when my brother is home to hold her for me.

Like I said before, any chance the vet can either show you how to give her the steroid injections or try giving it to her orally?  Sounds like it helped for a few days.

{{{{{{{{healing and comfort vibes for Peanut }}}}}}}}} :heart:

And for you, too, Ratlets.  Hang in there and do the best you can.

Looks like the injection she got Monday was a form of prednisone. 

I have a question... what would make Peanut's incisor fall out?  I just found her top right incisor.  There's nothing left where it was... just a hole (healed over).  No blood anywhere where she's been (her carrier... covers/hammocks/cubes). 

I've been giving her oral prednisone again on the vet's advice, but it has made no difference that I can tell.  I gave her more SQ fluids this afternoon.  She's eating with more ease today than she was yesterday.

But why in the world would her tooth fall out?  It doesn't appear to have been knocked out or broken... it just looks like it fell right out.  It looks like a healthy color... maybe a little blood staining around the "top" where I assume it was connected.

She'll be going in Monday, if possible, to get her remaining teeth trimmed... at least her bottom right which is long.  It seems ridiculous to have to get it trimmed once a week, but it really is growing fast and not being worked down at all.

Ok... I looked in poor light, so I decided to feel the spot with the tip of my finger.  Feels like the tooth broke off right at the gum-line.  But still.... how?? why??  The tooth was found in the back of the carrier... there's nothing she could have hit it on back there... unless she fell out of her hammock in the front of the carrier and hit it and spat it out back there.

Poor girl.  And the bottom right is growing bent off to the side, if that gives any further info on why it needs trimming every week :(

Hope she's feeling better soon, keep her comfortable.

As for the tooth, could be when it was trimmed it also got cracked up near the gumline and the person trimming the teeth did not see it.  Could very well be from her previous tooth trim.

Whew.  Thank you, Jen!

We've been cuddling a lot lately.  She starts bruxing/boggling when I'm stroking her from nose to tail.  :)

Your welcome.  Just make sure that if you are continuing to get her teeth trimmed while she is still with you the person doing it is doing it right.  I acn't express that enough.  Trimming teeth when its not needed can really screw them up and further more it can be really painful to the rat.  You know how your cracked teeth feel like when you've broken a tooth ot have a bad cavity, same thing with a rat if the crack is too far up into the gumline and it cracks above the root.

Personally I would keep on eye on her teeth and if they are looking ok and the cracked one is growing in at the right angle still, I WOULD NOT TRIM HER TEETH AGAIN  Its more stress than she needs right now.

If you are going to ask for experienced rat peoples' opinions and not listen to those giving you good information, whats the point in asking.

That being said.  I hope Peanut it comfortable.  Kisses to the little girl.

Jen

Peanut's bottom right tooth is almost touching the roof of her mouth.  It would be touching if it wasn't growing off to the side.  It needs to be trimmed.  I ask my vet to trim only if she thinks they need to be trimmed, and she only does so if she thinks they are at that point.

I am listening to your advice and have been with every single post. 

She's back up and walking/running again.  It must be the fluids.

Going to alternate giving her something like smart water or gatoraid.. something with electrolytes, etc, instead of sticking her every day.  Alternate that with her ensure :)

See how that goes!  Hopefully it works.  I don't want to have to stick her once a day!

I'm so sorry about your Peanut.
My first rat death (Frannie) was due to a insanely fast acting PT.  She didn't respond to steriods and had to be PTS about 36 hours after she first started getting bad.  It was not a fun experience and I am sorry you are dealing with it. *hugs*

When I've got rats who aren't drinking well, I give them coconut water.  It's like a natural sports drink - full of good stuff like potassium, etc.  They love it since it's sweet and yummy.  Make sure you get the stuff that's 100% coconut water/juice and not full of added stuff.  Vitacoco is a good brand.  As long as it has no added sugars/crap it'll be good.  I prefer using that over the more processed, additive filled stuff like typical sports drinks.  Your mileage may vary!

Kisses for Peanut.
Melissa

I thought coconut milk was a laxative?

I got Peanut some Smart Water, but she wasn't interested in drinking it from a dropper.  Or pedialyte.  Picky stinker.

The vet said the idea was a good one, but it would take a lot of the water/pedialyte/sports drink to have any real benefit.  She said to do it if Peanut would cooperate, but it doesn't look like that's the case.  She'll be getting sub-q fluids once a day as needed.  I'm pretty sure she needs it every day, because when I skipped a day, she lost her ability to balance/walk again.

Peanut has had wet poop since yesterday.  Nothing has changed in her diet... if you can call it that.  Any ideas??

The vet agrees that Peanut will need her teeth clipped every week if they continue to grow as fast as they gave been for the past few weeks.  Of course, only if they are too long or growing in odd directions.

Oral fluids are the best most natural way to go, sub-q should only be if totally necessary.  See if she will drink ensure from a syringe.    My PT lasses drank from the syringe until the end.

So you think sub-q fluids are the only thing keeping her alive?  I use sub-q on a continual basis if the rat needs help getting better, but I don't think Peanut is going to. :(

How much fluid is she getting daily?

I wonder if the wet poop is from too much fluids.

I don't think she needs fluids to stay alive;  I think she needs fluids to function properly (ie: moving, standing, grooming). 

Peanut eats lots of Ensure on a daily basis through an eyedropper, but the Ensure doesn't seem to contain the electrolytes she needs.  I've offered her water and pedialyte in the dropper, but she wasn't interested in either.

The vet gave me some high fiber Critical Care stuff for herbivores this morning.  It was the only thing she had on hand that she thought might help with the wet poop.

We've been giving her 5cc's of sub-q at a time.

Ratlets - I have been watching this thread but not really commenting since I have no experience on PTs.

Wasn't she on antibiotics? That could upset the stomach and cause the loose bowel movements. Benebac or some yogurt (esp. the type with active cultures) should help her stomach.

Maybe it is a side-effective of one of the medications? Some fiber really might help firm things up too. I just wanted to throw that out there.

Discuss both with your vet and see what they suggest.

GOOD NEWS!

Peanut did NOT lose ANY weight last week!!  She managed this even with not wanting to eat hardly anything for two days.

The vet called in some Bromocriptine for Peanut to be compounded.  We are going to try and see if this will shrink the tumor.  We're also considering oral melatonin.

Hope the bromocriptine works!! I don't know how likely it is... it only works on the one type of pituitary tumor.  I hope that's what Peanut has.

Hey ratlets, you've been through the ringer!  I hope the new stuff will help Peanut.

Thanks :)

Little update: The pharmacy doesn't have the bromocriptine, but they do have cabergoline.  Cabergoline works much the same way and is used when bromocriptine has no affect.

Peanut is a warrior! I've been following this thread and hoping for good news  :)

  :icon_cheers:GO PEANUT! GO PEANUT!

And hang in there, Ratlets! Your love and dedication to your girl are a model for all of us to follow. 

You really are doing so much for your little Peanut :heart:

After a few rough days (unable to eat much at all: ate very slowly due to not being able to move her mouth/tongue/jaw/not sure which or stand), I think Peanut's cabergoline is working. 

Yesterday, I saw Peanut blinking her right eye.  I have not seen her blink her right eye since the very beginning of all this.  She also stood up while she was eating last night.  She propped herself up, but that is still huge progress.  She tried walking, but her legs could not support her.  Her muscles are atrophied and will take some rehabilitation to get back to working order.  I am starting this rehab today by helping her to stand for as long as she's willing and by carefully extending her right leg, which I think she hasn't used in several weeks.  I think her arms are in better shape than her legs.  She has not stopped using them to move around/groom, but I don't think they can support her weight while standing, either.

If anyone has any advice on building her muscles back up, I would greatly appreciate it. 

Along with the blinking/eating/standing/poking her tongue out further and further, Peanut still has her nutty attitude.  Since I placed Bandit back in the big cage, Peanut has been living on my bed.  I put her in her hammock in her carrier at night.  The carrier is beside my pillow at all times.  Peanut started throwing fits at night when I'd lay down for bed.  She would come out of her hammock and press herself up against the front bars trying to get out.  I have given in to Peanut's wish.  Instead of putting her in her carrier at night, I bundle up a fleece sweatshirt and put her in the middle, covered up.  Sometimes she stays in it, sometimes she goes in her carrier and gets in her hammock or cube (whichever is present), but mostly she sneaks under the covers with me.  I have woken up cuddling my Peanut for a few days now :)  I keep telling her she's going to get squished, but she doesn't care!  If I notice her under the covers with me before it's time to get up for the day, I put her back in her sweatshirt.  Sometimes she stays in it.

Anyway, if Peanut continues to look better and/or not get any worse, then I think the rat community might have something to turn to for the treatment of pituitary tumors.  I hope this is the case rather than Peanut just having a few good days after a few bad ones.

My vet, my mom, and I expect the improvements to be gradual considering treatment was started so far after the tumor was diagnosed.  In people, improvements are immediate, but, in people, the treatment is started as soon as the tumor is diagnosed.  Peanut's tumor is far past that point, so we have no way of telling how long it might take if the cabergoline is working.

Lastly, if the cabergoline works and Peanut recovers, she will need to be on the medicine for the rest of her life to prevent the tumor from growing back.

I appreciate all the thoughts for my Nutter!

It is wonderful to hear that Peanut is doing well!  She is lucky to have you to cheer her on towards recovery!  God Bless both of you, Barbara

No real change, lately.  I made her an appointment to have her put down this morning, but last night she shocked me.  She started using her hands to grip things... the eyedropper I feed her with... treats... me...  It could just be a fluke, but it could also be improvement.  She still has the will to live, and she has a huge appetite, and I never have to force anything on her.  I don't think it would be right for me to have her euthanized if she could be getting better.  My vet said it's like she's an old lady in need of a wheelchair and assistance.

Some days my Peanut does look miserable.  Some days she just wants to sleep.  Some days she's a ball of energy.  She's mostly a ball of energy when I'm trying to sleep.  Grr.

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but I have started disolving high-cal (for dogs/cats) in her Ensure.  The dose is one and a half teaspoon per 10 pounds of body weight.  The vet said I can give her as much as she'll eat unless it causes diarhoea. 

Again, I do not feel it is right to put an animal down if that animal is willing to live and has a chance to get better.  Peanut seems to be having improvements, and she has certainly stopped getting worse.  I'll give my Peanut whatever she needs until she has decided she has had enough.  The same as I did for my Kerfuffle.  He knew when it was time, and I knew when he knew.

I appreciate all the good thoughts and wishes for my Nutter.

i know the feeling.  they will tell us when they need to go.  thistle has come back from the edge so many times it's amazing.  your little peanut is a brave lady and i wish her well.   

(((hugs))) for you and Peanut.  I know the feeling as well of trying so hard to keep them with us, because you know they're not ready.  I had that with Henry...he hung on for a long time, and when he was done, I knew.  You'll know.  Give her all the love you can.   :heart:

Thanks, again :)

Peanut is definitely still gripping.  She can grip very tightly, too!  I really think this is progress and improvement from the Cabergoline, and I really hope more people are able to use it for their affected rats.  It can't be guaranteed to work on all pituitary tumors, but there is always the chance that it could smack down a prolactin-producing tumor!

Peanut started showing signs of respiratory illness last night.  Her breathing was hard and fast.  This morning, she had developed a full-blown pneumonia.  Her eyes looked like Kerfuffle's and Scruffy's did before they passed.  I gave her a dose of lasix to try to dry her lungs, but it had no effect.  I took Peanut to the vet to see if there was anything that could be done.  I decided to have Peanut put to sleep.  I asked for them not to use the heart-stick, but Peanut tolerated the anesthesia.  They gave her the injection through a vein in her tail, and I thought she had passed, but she began breathing again.  They tried to find a vein big enough in her leg to give a second injection, but they were all too small.  Same with the jugular.  We had to go with the heart injection in the end, but I noticed she had stopped breathing before the needle went in.  I know she didn't feel a thing.  She was out from the moment we put her on the gas.

Peanut was a fighter til the end.

I'm so sorry for your loss.  *hugs*  Peanut was a brave girl, and certainly a fighter.

I'm so sorry to hear about Peanut. She certainly was a valiant fighter and you gave her every opportunity to live her life to the fullest.  :heart:

Oh, gosh.  Peanut is one of those who touches us all, and we all feel her loss.  You really hung in there with her, and she knew how important she was to you.  (((hugs)))  :heart:

i'm so sorry about your loss. little peanut was a very brave strong girl who fought to the end. peanut, please look after your mommy and play hard at the bridge sweet one. 

I am so sorry for your loss :heart:

What an extraordinarily strong and brave girl.  I'm so sorry she's gone, but she's a healthy rattie now.  *hugs* I hope your :heart: heals soon.

so sorry to hear about peanut but like you said she was a fighter to the end and I know you will never forget that determination.

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss :( She fought so hard for so long. I hope you can take comfort in knowing her suffering has come to an end.

I'm so, so sorry. :heart:

Thank you, everyone.

I'm having a hard time with this.  Peanut was on my bed beside me for 3 months.  It's hard not having her there with me.  I keep wondering if I did the right thing.  I keep wondering if she was ready, or if she felt like I had given up on her.

I really miss my Peanut :(

It's human nature to second guess ourselves, especially when we have to make decisions like this for our loved ones.  If she were still here, you'd be wondering if you were keeping her too long and making her suffer.  She knew you loved her and did the absolute best for her no matter what.  She does not feel like you gave up.  She knows you.  You did the right thing, but I know you miss her.  :heart:  (((hugs)))

I'm so sorry you lost your Peanut.  She was a great rat, and deserves to be missed terribly.

I know what it's like to second guess your decisions.  Particularly after a long, protracted illness where you have to make important, difficult decisions practically every day.  Living with that responsibility, and that fear, is really hard.  I find that it takes me a very long time to recover from those times and to find peace with my choices.  But until you find that peace, please take our word for it that you did the right thing for Peanut, now and for her whole life with you.  I think we demand a much higher degree of perfection from ourselves than our rats ever would -- to them, we are already perfect!  Especially as long as we keep the treats coming.

I won't tell you to heal quickly (I'm not personally any good at it), but please be kind to yourself.  None of this is easy, but you did a good job.

Oh Jordan, I am so sorry. My heart just sank  :'( She truly was a fighter.

BIG BIG HUGS to you.
Sleep tight, sweet Peanut. I am sure you already found Kerfi Scruffy and playing happily - free from pain  :heart: