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Over a month ago, we took in rescue girls. I dosed one with Revolution and the next day she started peeing blood. I never related it to the revolution and just figured it was a bladder infection. She was put on meds and did a full recovery.
Yesterday, I dosed all my crew with Revolution and this morning, I've found my girl with lots of blood in her urine. She's lethargic, cold and not eating. I've started her on Baytril and pred. I'm also syringe feeding her Ensure. I'm very worried.
But... it now has me wondering, what are the chances of two females getting a UTI the day after a dosing of Revolution?

Oh, my gosh, that's horrible. I've never heard of that before.  I'd always heard that Revolution was safe, relatively speaking.  I hope someone else knows something, and I hope your girly feels better really soon.  :BlueDumboBigEyes:

Hmmm... I couldn't find any reputable sources linking selamectin application to hematuria, but I'm wondering -- hematuria can result from the ingestion of alcohol. Is it possible some of the rats could have ingested it? This sounds like it's more than just hematuria though, and resulted in a full-blown infection. Huh.

Thanks JR1030.

Mandy, it's possible for my girl to have ingested some but not the first girl. It's really puzzling.
But on a good note, Cande is doing much better, there's not that much blood in her urine tonight. She's more alert and hungry.
Thank god!!

Well, we just found another rat peeing blood. This one is at my mom's. I had dosed them as well with Revolution. This is getting way to coincidental.  :worry:

i found this as a list of side effects, but they are most likely only talking about cats and dogs. though i would also have to think they would have done a lot of testing on lab rats too.
"What are the possible side effects of Revolution: Side effects of Revolution that may occur include temporary hair loss at the site of application, loss of appetite, drooling, vomiting, diarrhea, drowsiness, rapid breathing, increased heart rate, and muscle tremors." i also went to check one of my books i have and it says the same thing, but again only talking about cats and dogs


this site list possible causes, (for humans anyways) http://www.emedicinehealth.com/blood_in_the_urine/page2_em.htm

i couldn't really find much info to help but everytime I've used it, i had no problems. hope all ends well

This is a long shot, but do you think that the batch could have become somehow contaminated at any point?

Oh, gosh, I'm so sorry.  I wonder about contamination, too.  Did you use the same batch for yours and your mom's?

That's the weird part... I dosed 74 rats, three different households and different vials too. I used 6mg/kg which is not even a high dose.
My Cande is doing great, almost no more blood at all. Louie is still peeing bright red blood but he's in good form, very active and eats well.
I suppose having so many rats, we are bound to run into all kinds of things.

I just found my Boo this morning, he has blooding coming from his penis, just like the others. Of course, it can't be the Revolution, it's been almost a full week.
I did some research on hematuria and found Trichosomoides crassicauda (bladder thread worm). Does anyone have any information on this parasite?
I googled it but there's not much. It's species specific, usually no symptoms, mostly found on wild or lab rats not pet rats.
It says treat with ivermectin. I wonder if the Revolution might have had a hand in making the symptoms appear?
I'm still waiting for my vet to come back from her holidays.  :(

Aren't rats prone to crystals also?  Maybe that's what is causing the hematuria?  Is there anyone else you can see at the animal hospital that you go to, who can do a cystocentesis on the bladder and get some urine to check for that?

Deb

The rats show no pain, wouldn't they be hurting with crystals in the bladder?
I think my vet is in on Monday, if it was something minor, I would have brought them in to the clinic and have her colleague check them out but she really doesn't know much about rats and that would have cost me well over $100 for nothing.
Baytril wouldn't have helped if it were crystals? I'm not even sure if the Baytril did help, it seems that 2 days after the onset of hematuria, the rat is completely back to normal. We start Baytril asap on the one with blood coming from their urethra.

They might not necessarily show pain.  That would be a sign of weakness and being a prey animal, they don't want to show any signs of weakness.  Well Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic I believe, so it might have some help with a urinary tract infection though it isn't necessarily the ideal one to use.

Deb

Ratguide says that rats that have eaten a lot of carrots, beets, or berries can show reddish tint in their urine, called pseudohematuria.  Have your rats eaten anything like that?  Ratguide also has a link for trichosomoides crassicauda, but the link goes to a page that doesn't exist.

How contagious is a bladder thread worm? I suppose it would have to have come in on something that was common to all the affected rats - food or bedding - since you've got rats in different cages and households affected. It would be a major pain to treat 74 rats with ivermectin, but that might be cheaper than a vet visit and tests. If it were me, I'd be inclined to treat for that just to rule it out. If the problem comes back, at least you know that's not the problem. I don't know if it's available over the counter in Canada, but you might be able to find it at a feed/livestock store.

One thing I read said the threadworms were a chronic condition, and wouldn't bother the rats unless they spread to the lungs.

JR1030, nope, nothing like that to eat. I'm 100% positive it's blood.  :(

Scout, I think I'll do that, try ivermectin, we can get it at any equine store here. I'll be treating 91 rats. *gulp*
From researching, I believe that parasite is very contagious. All I had to do is clean up some urine, get some little bug eggs on me and off to visit my mom and other rats. I'm just praying that the wee babies won't start any bleeding. The amount of blood loss from Louie was scary, same with my Cande. But with Boo, it's not so bad.
I did find my Mielle dying... she too had huge drops of blood coming from her urethra. God, I hope it was just a coincidence and just her kidneys shutting down. She was 38 months old.  :'(

I read that too. So I think ivermectin might be the best choice. I may also start nebulizing my whole crew again.

I'm so sorry about Mielle! To have made it to 3 years, then to go so suddenly. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you get to the bottom of this and get it fixed in a hurry. You're going to be so busy! Wish I could come help.

Thanks Scout...
I'm calling my vet tomorrow, she should be back. My Boo is not doing so well. He's not bleeding as bad as the other's did but he's lethargic, cold and not eating. I'm really worried about him.  :'(

Oh, gosh, I really hope you can get this under control.  :heart:

I made a timeline to get a better idea:

On April 26th, we rescued Daizy and April. (living at my mom's)
On April 27th morning, Daizy gives birth and we then did Revolution on April.
On April 27th evening, we found small spots of blood. I checked April and it was coming from her urethra so she was immediately put on Baytril.
On April 29th, Oscar (lives at my mom's) never had Revolution bled profusely in his cage. He was never in contact with the rescues. We thought Oscar was going to die. (lethargic and cold) We couldn't find any marks on him, and it did not show that he was bleeding from the urethra. We figured he had hurt a toe cause of the amount of blood in the cage and figured it had healed up fast. Full recovery within 24 hours.
June 1st, Revolution on 74 rats.
June 2nd, found Cande,(lives at my place) lethargic, cold and not eating. Lots of blood with urine. I had to change the napkins 4 times. She was put on Baytril immediately and did a full recovery after 3 days.
June 2nd-3rd, Louie (lives at my mom'sand is Oscar's bro) lots of blood, not only urine soaked but if you would pick him up his penis/urethra would gush out blood. Put on Baytril, full recovery within 2 days.
June 4th, I found my Mielle (lives at my place) dying. She is basically brain dead and has huge drops of dark blood coming from her urethra. She passes within a couple of hours.
June 7th, Boo (lives at my place) has some very small amount of blood coming from his urethra. Not much at all. He's on Baytril now. Not recovering well.

I live in a triplex, with my parents and sister. My sister's rats never had any reaction.
But, when my sister gave her dog her revolution (time of month) yesterday, Roxie became very sick. (vomiting and diarrhea)
I don't know if it's all related or just a coincidence, hopefully my vet will have some answers.

It's going to have to be a postmortem tomorrow with my vet. My Boo just left me.  :'(

oh no, jorats, i'm so sorry about your boo.  he's hale and hearty now at the bridge. 

Oh no, jorats!  I'm so sorry!!  (HUGS)  :heart:

Deb

Oh, no, I'm so sorry.  Let us know what the vet says.  :'(

Oh god Jo, this is so tragic. I'm so sorry. I really hope the necropsy holds some answers for you. :'(

Thanks everyone...
I just spoke to my vet. She's pretty certain it's not the Revolution. She said if she didn't know us, she would have thought it was rat poison.
So it has to be viral because it's going between to separate households. Something is preventing the blood to coagulate. She's doing the necropsy tonight and will be sending any tissues and such to the University of Guelph.

How horrible. :'( We'll definitely be thinking of you down here.

I spoke to my vet. The postmortem didn't reveal anything that would show cause of death. In fact, she said he looked like a healthy male. The atrium was a bit enlarged but not enough to indicate cardiac arrest. There were no crystals and no sign of parasites unless they are too small for her to see. We are getting a pathohistology done. Depending on those results, we will do a virology and toxicology test. She thinks it's viral, the hematuria being a symptom of the virus.

Thanks for sharing. I sure hope you get to the bottom of this.

I'm so sorry for your losses and hope you get to the bottom of this soon!

So sorry this happened!But,you are sure doing everything you can for the surviving rats.Good luck!

For those still watching this thread...

The pathohistology is in.... essentially, there's still no answer. All the organs show a bleeding out. There is no inflammation which would indicate a virus, an attack on the system. No worms, no crystals... nothing, except he bled out.
So, we are sending away more tissues and stomach content, this time looking for toxicity, specifically rat poison. It if does come back as such, we'll have to get the Harlan and the Oxbow tested.

Oh, boy! What a nightmare this has become for you. I sure hope you don't find any rat poison! That would just raise a whole other can of worms. I'd hate to think it came from either of those two foods.

All the organs?  Oh, my god!

Yesterday, I came home and found my Radar passed on, ...hematuria again. He was fine at 2pm, no signs of bleeding and then by 11pm, he was gone.
This morning, my Treat is bleeding. Like Boo, Radar didn't bleed much. But Treat is bleeding a lot. I got him to eat and drink lots. I hope that's a good sign, the two rats at my mom's that bled a ton made a full recovery.
I'm just devastated.  :worry:

Oh, no!  :'(  I am so very sorry! It is very heartbreaking.

Have you considered changing out all your litter, food and water bottles in case it's something environmental?

I did that today, I ripped everything out of the cage, cleaned all the bowls, took the water bottle away. I took all the toys away, some are from the dollar store which could be of lower quality. I'm now using a new bag of HT.
I'll be bringing Radar in tomorrow for a postmortem.

Oh, no!  I'm so, so sorry.  Lead poisoning wouldn't do that, would it?

**I googled a few things, and it looks like lead poisoning can cause hematuria, but so can a bunch of other poisons.  Did your dr do a lead level test?

JR1030, can you send me the links you found? I couldn't find anything.

Let's see...a few things just mention it briefly.

This one talks about a family eating out of containers with lead, and hematuria was one symptom.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6578733

This one talks about kids with lead poisoning having renal failure.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u12171345x12191k/

I'm still working on it...apparently lots of kinds of poisoning can cause that...rat poison, bracken, picric acid...oy.

I'm going to mention that to my vet, thanks!!

This is horrible. :'( I just wish you could find some answers. :heart:

Treat is still alive this morning, but barely. I brought him to the vet and I also brought my Radar so we can have the tissues sent away as well.
The labs have asked for samples of our Harlan and Oxbow as it's looking more and more like a toxin.
I can't wait for this nightmare to be over.

I'm so sorry about everything you're going through.  You and your mom use the same shipment of food?

I'm so sorry, Jorats. :(

Thanks guys...
We share the Oxbow but we order the Harlan at the same time and stored in the same place.

Is it possible to be contaminated water?  Like, if you are both on the same town water or well?

I'm so soory you are going through this.  I can't even imagine what it must be like.  *hugs*

This is really scary.

I've never heard of anything like this --- I have nothing to add except ((hug))  :heart:  my thoughts are with you and the little ones.   I hope that answers come definitively and quickly.   Are you having any unusual health concerns -or anyone in your home? 

What about the cage itself?  Could they be gnawing at it and getting poisoned by chance?

My mom and I do share the water, it's one of those brita filters added to the tap. I wonder maybe if it might be moldy?

WS, thank you... I do have some, but I attributed it to my constant crying. :(

Blackthorn, it's an FN. This crew have never chewed on the bars. Radar did when he lived with just Isabelle, but not since being moved in with the big colony.

If that's the case, I strongly suggest testing the water, I would suspect that over the food because water can easily support nasty stuff or have things leech into it--even with a filter. It can look, smell and taste fine while still being a problem.  It's possible things are at a low enough level that you and your familty don't show symptoms (...yet?).  If it's town water I believe that it's possible to call the town about it to ask them to check on things.  If I remember correctly, it's possible for water the vary so have it checked more than once at different times.

I have my fingers crossed that you guys get to the bottom of this and soon, so that you can save everyone else.  In the meantime I would buy bottled water for yourself and the rats.

Moondust brings up a good point, if its the water.....I would think it would affect all of the rats though.  But then who knows.  The thing with the water Jo, since rats are so much smaller than us, it could be building in your system but they are so much smaller doesn't take much to affect them.  And since you both use the same water filter?

Try changing the water filter?

I myself only drink bottled water. Some days my rats will get my mom's filtered water and some days my bottled water. But my mom's rats get her filtered water every day. It still doesn't click.

...Treat didn't make it.  :'(

Oh, I'm so, so sorry.  When you said dollar store toys, the first thing I thought of was lead...I have no idea if that could be it, but I sure hope you find out soon.  Is there anyone new bleeding?

Everyone else seems fine at the moment. I just can't understand it. We had no bleeding for 2 weeks! Then, bang, two.
The tissues will be tested for lead.

Did you ending up sending off serum (blood) for a full serology panel?  The labs can test for many more viruses than what we commonly see with our pet rats. 

It does sound like some kind of toxin, but I have a hard time thinking the rat food would be contaminated.... as incredibly sick a thought as it is, you haven't had any visitors to your home that may have slipped them something??

I'm so sorry for your losses.  I know how hard that is to deal with....  :'(  Hopefully you can get some kind of answer!!

Thanks Lise...
My vet says you can't test blood on a dead animal. ??

No, you can't do bloodwork after an animal has passed away.  So when you bring one into the vet who is ill, you need to pull the blood right away.

You only need a very very tiny amount of serum (it is a minimum of 20 MICROliters for RADIL's testing...) for them to do the serology testing.  Since she is an exotics vet she should have the tiny micro blood tubes for rodents and small birds, or at least know where to get them.

We did talk about that today. She said the testing she wants is the anticoagulation whatchamacallit. For this, you need 2.7 ccs and that's way too much to take from a rat, according to her. If nothing shows up with the toxicology, and we get another sick one, I will mention what you wrote.
Thanks Lise!!