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i came home to find that Apollo was not putting any pressure on a back leg. He is climbing and jumping without use of the leg. He is a healthy, neutered, year old male with no history of major health problems. He is a Himi and has always had eye problems. well he stretches them up and they bleed, it comes and goes so i do the same care when i see it and within days it heals up.  i was cleaning the area around his eye and put him down, feed them and than came back and found that he  wouldn't pick up his leg. I may have missed it the first time but i still don't know what is wrong.

 i moved the leg around and didn't feel anything broken, it looks a little swollen. A second thing i notice is his back head seems to stop working, and he drags his back end along. I pet any back end and he cries, and was licking me as if he was hurting..  Is there anything i can give him for the pain? I have baytril on hand but i don't know if that helps with pain.

 I think he is really sick but i don't know what is wrong.

Looking at the time of your post, I'm guessing the vet's aren't opened yet and that will be your first call.

Baytril won't do anything for pain as you know it's an antibiotic.  You can give baby Tylenol <IF YOU KNOW THE PROPER DOSE> for pain.  I'm not sure if that's on the RMCA drug chart or not and I don't feel comfortable posting what my vet recommends since I'm not a Dr. myself.  Do you have a gram scale you could weigh him on and would you be able to figure out the formulary?  The drug chart won't help you if you not.

My Gino recently injured himself in a similar fashion~came home to a very red, swollen, unusable back leg.  I have over 30 years experience owning rats.  He just sprained his and was fine in a few days.

Does Apollo's foot feel warm?  If it feels warm, he has blood circulation in the foot (which is good).  Is there any seepage (clear liquid) from the swollen area?  Not so good, you need to get the swelling down, just as you would with a person.

As for the back end not working, is this something new, or has this been a progression?  There is a degenerative disease aging males can get~"hind end paralysis".  Search that on Rat Guide (http://ratguide.com)  I've had 2 boys with that, both lived to 3+.  They just need some special care with caging and personal hygiene.  Though Apollo seems kinda' young for that.  My 30m old Siamese Nobel seems to be wavering in that direction.  It does concern me that he (Apollo) cries when you touch his back area, but that could be related to the leg (possibly hip) injury.

Keep us posted.  And here's a little  :-* for Apollo; hang in there big guy!

Ann & my gorgeous boys Nobel, Figlewitz, Ridley, D'Marco, Gino & Nunzio!
Enjoy the yogie bar Efram!
Co-founding Partner/Secretary
Pittsburgh Rat Lovers Club & Rescue

I have no clue what you are saying about his eyes...can you clarify that?  stretching and bleeding?

If you stroke over his hind end and he crie and licks you to stop, he has injured himself beyond a sprain. Spinal nerve degeneration is a slow process and you would've noticed it earlier  He needs a vet and painkillers/anti-inflammatories.  He needs to be moved to a single level cage with a friend (if he's not in too much pain and they bump him).

 i just called the vet and i hope to get him in soon. His whole back end is down.. both feet look swollen. He normally is in a FN so i don't know what he did.
 I feel horriable because he is pain. I know his weight is about 525g but i don't have baby meds her.. i am the youngest and i am 20. I am waiting for a call back from the vet.

I would tell the receptionist at the vet's office this is an emergency and can you bring him in asap and wait to get in to be seen.  Sounds like he needs to be seen very soon.

he is at the vet right now as a drop off, i am waiting for a call back.  I had him in a one level cage overnight but not will a buddy because my male group has 3 boys. He was hurting and i didn't want Romeo to do anymore damage. I took him out because he was running away and hiding in the house from the others. I just wish i knew what was wrong. His back right leg is hurt but he was climbing on top of the house and on the bars, but than his back end was being drag at the end of the night. I was feeling his back end and right in the middle toward the back is when it hurt him. Has anyone seen this before?

It sounds like a bad injury, maybe he got caught up in an FN ramp and hung there.
Rest and paid meds/anti-inflammatories will hopefully help.

 i hope he is okay, he has been at the vet since 1:00 and its 5 now. I hope it is something that can be fix with meds and love. I am such a worry mom

 I just got back from the vet, the leg is broken. He is on pain meds and on bed rest as well. I have a good layer of fleece for bedding and a one level cage.

Oh wow, I'm so sorry. That must hurt so much  :'(

I'm sure you will take good care of him. Give the poor little guy lots of love and treats from us Goosemoosers  :heart:

thank you. It says a lot about Apollo's personality because when i was touching his leg and back side trying to figure out what was wrong he would  scream and turn around to start licking me. Even with the pain he was still a sweetheart.
 :heart: :BlueDumboSmile:
 New question: I have never had to care for a rat with a broken leg, any special care?

 I have him on a one level cage alone, aspen as bedding but thick fleece on top of it. aspen is on the bottom so fleece doesn't move around, water bottom low, food available and he has his pain meds for 5 days once a day.

The licking is a frantic plea telling you to stop touching him, a different rat might bite.

Sounds like you are doing all you can.  Did they X-ray him to determine the break?

they did not do the x ray because on the exam it was clear enough that they did not feel it was needed. If surgery was being done it would have done the x ray. I also asked about a splint but was told it most likely wouldn't work.

 He is on bed rest and pain meds and will have a recheck next week to see how the leg is healing.

Its just that a really bad sprain can look like a closed fracture, but will heal a little faster :)

 when they were looking at the leg he would only let them go so far in till he scream also his foot is very swollen.

splits and whatnot don't work very well for rats from what i hear because they just chew it off during the first night.
He'll have to be kept in a one lvl cage and if it is a bad break, without proper immobilization of the leg there's a chance it won't heal right and he'll limp for the rest of his life (not a big deal if you look at the whole picture)

I'd ask your vet about a pain medicine that would also make him sleepy/drowsy to discourage him from moving around too much in the first week of his healing process.

 he is in a one level cage i moved the food and water as close as i could get to the house because it really hurts him to move. He is on  metacam for the pain, and i was told that he may limp the rest of his life but as long as he is in no pain i am fine with that. he is my sweetest rat and i hate seeing him in so much pain.  I just gave him his pain meds and he took it from me with no problem and he is eating baby food which is better than nothing. He looks so bad  :( it makes me really sad to look at him. He is in shadows old cage; i guess it brings back memories :BlueDumboBigEyes:

I'm sure you've already thought of this, but is the water bottle low enough that he can drink on all 4's?  May want to keep an eye and help him keep clean, too.

I hope he gets better soon!  Hopefully the pain meds will help him move around a bit more.

 the news is not good. I took apollo back to the vet. Both back legs are very swollen and he will not put any pressure on either one. He drags himself around the cage when he does move. I had to offer water to him because even though its right next to the opening of the house it was too painful to move the few inches to get water :( I just hope he gets better soon :( i hate seeing him in so much pain.

Probably a good idea for the vet to do an xray to check for fractures.  Especially any that could be related to his legs and spine.

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear this. I am so sad that Apollo seems to be dragging himself about. I figured the broken leg would be really tough on him, but was hoping that the meds would help him get around a bit.

I would think that an x-ray might be in order. Please keep us posted and let us know what the vet says about your little guy.  :cookie: and scritches from me and my crew. We're all pulling for Apollo!  :heart:

 i guess that their may not be a broken leg but infection? We are doing the X ray but do not know if anything will come up. Has anyone ever seen this before? The vets have no clue on what it may be because they have never seen anything like this.   One leg was swollen yesterday and they felt a breaK AND now both are swollen and you can no longer find the break His legs are very painful, hot to the touch and swollen but he can walk on them it just hurts.

 okay.. there is nothing wrong with his feet. They did two x rays,a full body and one of his feet. The body one to check his heart and everything and the feet looked normal. I am starting him on Baytil tonight to see if there is an infection. They looked in all the small animals books they found nothing close to what is being seen. Has anyone ever seen something like this before?

Yes, on my Sebastian.  Was a bacterial infection.  A month later the other foot blew up as well. :(

I didn't have a good camera, and the leg swelled up even more than this pic...
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/Legs%20and%20Tails/poorsebfoot.jpg)

baytril and metacam.

did you ever find the cause? Are the two roommates at risk?

No idea on the cause...we treated and it went away.  His cagemates were fine.  He was an older boy though.

apollo has taken a turn for the worse and i fear that he is now dieing. He is doing a motion of throwing up but of course rats can't get sick.. and his breathing is very deep and sudden. I don't know what is wrong, i have called around and evryone is closed :(

my heart is breaking and i can;t stand this.

Is he choking?  Did he eat something beforehand? It looks like they are dying or trying to vomit.

no

Respiratory attack? How distressed is he?  Is he open-mouth gasping/clicking?

Update on Apollo?? :worry:

No.. the color of his eyes has changed very dull, all of the rats are quite.. i think they know

Oh no hun.  I'm so sorry.  :worry:  You're in my thoughts. *hugs*

This is awful.  :'( What's happening with Apollo? How are YOU doing?

no one knows.. the vets had no idea and have never seen something like it

I'm new to this board but have been a rat momma for nearly 10 years now.  My heart breaks whenever they get sick, and I know yours must be also.  I'm so sorry for your little baby boy.   :worry:

Could it be a blood clot?! *thinking*

 this all happened in 3 days.. last week Apollo was happy and giving me kisses, now i am watching him die. I just can't leave him. i have been with him since 11 am..

I have heard of swelling from an allergic reaction (meds in one case...the rats tongue swelled up)

A cold compress is best for swelling, but I don't know if he will tolerate it.  Is there some kind of antinflammatory drug the vet can offer?   :worry:

What about soaking it in epsom salts?  I've never used it with my rats but it mentions it in this article:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pet-Rats-3537/2008/6/Rat-foot-swollen.htm

The photo they show looks similar...  ???

yes, they can prescribe prednisone amongst other things.

what are the chances of a stroke? I took him outside with me and he poo for the first time in hours but it was a nasty hard poo that was black. I am pulling shadow. When shadow was ill i had her with me 24/7 and i carried her in my  sweatshirt pocket. I am going to treat it like a stroke. It possiable if you take out the feet factor

Hmm.. Doesn't black stool usually indicate internal bleeding...?

any good news? no.. internal bleeding.. stroke..poor boy

The hard dark poo is probably because he is dehydrated.  Have you checked with the shoulder/back skin pinch?

yep he is good. I did get him to take baby food, but he isn't going to the bathroom so i think I'll give him pure pumpkin to soften anything and help clear up his system.  He looks better but his breathing is really my consurn. He is making a deep moment to breath and it follows to his head  moving back and forth. He is trying so hard to breath you can see his chest going up and down. On a good note the swelling in his feet went down and they don't look blue or feel hot.

 I hope he  makes it, i have cried my eyes out for him. Its just been so sudden and he is maybe a year old. Healthy one week and the next he is close to death.. i don't understand.

 i forgot to ask. Is there anyway i can help him go the bathroom?

I'm wondering if this is kidney-related?  If his kidneys weren't working properly, fluid would accumulate in his body due to lack of urination and possibly cause his feet to swell.  Also, since the kidneys control metabolic acid balance, if that's not working properly, you can see changes in respiration as the body tries to compensate.  And the vomiting type behavior could be caused by nausea as toxins are starting to build up in his blood.

Deb

Hmmmm....blue and hot?  I have a clotting disorder and have had several of them over the last 10 years...and I can tell you that there is swelling, a dark blueish purple color change, severe pain, and it feels very warm to the touch.  Someone previously mentioned a clot.  IF it is a stroke, then it could have broken off from the leg clot?  That's how I got several small clots in my lungs, broke off from a big one in the leg.

I can't remember now but is he on pain meds?  That breathing sounds pain-related.

How is your little one doing? You are both in my thoughts  :heart:

I signed on to check and see how Apollo is doing today. I am thinking about both of you  :heart:

Hang in there, Apollo :cookie:

 he is still with us. He is eating baby food but i haven't been able to get him to take water. He is also having problems with going to the bathroom. I am changing the bedding to carefresh ( ite been frozen for days now) so that i see if he is going.

yes he is on pain meds for his feet which are getting better, He can move but he just lays there in till he decides to go somewhere else. I hope he makes it trhough i am taking him to petsmart with me ( i work there) maybe bainfield is open or KIm may be there. ( she has a degree is animal care and i have always look to her for help) Either way any vet is better than no vet.

R.I.P Apollo

 i went to casey first to make sure and he told me it was his heart failing. The doctor said the same and said we can try meds.. i said no.. no more pain.
 I would never put any of my animals through so much pain just keep them alive  for me. I gave him the last gift i could give. A PEACFUL DEATH.. WITH NO PAIN...

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/ratlovingkippy211/My%20Rats/IMG_5558.jpg)

(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/ratlovingkippy211/My%20Rats/IMG_5672.jpg)

I am so so sorry for your loss.  Apollo is a beautiful boy, I love Siamese. 

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.  ~Kahlil Gibran

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.  You did give him the best final gift.  :heart:

 :heart: I'm soooo sorry!  You did such a sweet, selfless thing by letting Apollo go in peace.  Giving my guys some scritches and yogies in memory of him. :(

Hugs, Deb

thank you for letting apollo go in peace.  i know it was a hard decision but a brave one on your part.  and yes, eventually your heart will heal.  allow yourself time to grieve. 
apollo is at the bridge now, dancing and playing with all the ratties, singing your praises. 

This is such a beautiful quote.

I am so tremendously sorry for the loss of your boy. I'm sure your heart feels like it's breaking and I know that there's not much any of us can say right now that would change that. Take some comfort in knowing that you gave Apollo a wonderful life and that you cared for him the best you could with all the love in your heart.  You did the right thing by letting him go in peace, with dignity, and without pain.

Play hard, at the bridge, Apollo.

Oh no hun.  I'm so sorry to hear the news of Apollo's pasting.  I was really praying for a different ending to this..   :heart:  I know you probably feel like your heart is breaking right now and I'm so, so sorry for that.  There is nothing worse than losing a pet..  Just remember that as much as we always wish they could live forever, they're forever in our hearts and memory.  He will never truly leave you.  *huge hugs*   :heart:  You gave Apollo a great life while he was with you and when the end came, you did the absolute best thing you could for him.  Peace to our pets is the best and last gift we can ever give to show how much we love them..  :heart:  If there is anything at all that I can do for you, please let me know.

thank you very much everyone.  I have never been one to allow an animal to suffer, no matter how much it hurts. I had to work about an hour after the event and i did work. My co workers were there for me, i ended doing backrooms so that i wouldn't have to be in contact with customers and i could have some time to settle. I cried all day  yesterday for about 4 or 5 hours so i didn't have much left but i got it all out. The vet at benfield knows me and so did the assiantace so even know i was alone.. i really wasn't. After some time to think, i knew i did the right thing and i am at peace knowing he is in a better place and not in anymore pain. The radio had good timing.. Damaged danity Kane came on and i had tha blasting and leting it out, singing the words. I am by no means ok, it still hurts but i am learning how to handle this loss.  I am worried about my 2 other males, they came from petsmart too and we still do not know what killed Apollo.  I am worried.

 I had a rat who threw a clot which ended up in his bowel, and which killed him.  There was a lot of foot swelling (one side) just prior to this event ... but he'd had surgery for a lesion on his leg.

It's possible that Apollo threw a clot and it effected his lower legs and small intestine if you saw black stools, etc. Did they do a necropsy? 

Aww.   :heart:      :BlueDumboBigEyes:  What a good boy he was.  So sorry for your loss.

 No i am not doing a necropsy i buried him next to shadow and i am going to paint two rocks one with shadow than Apollo and put it on their graves. My personal vet does not know they he passed away. They were closed for the weekend and i start my job their monday and i am sure they will ask how he is. I have worked at petsmart for almost 4 years and know the vet very well, she was the one who ended up  putting him to sleep for me. I was in a little shock because in the past my vet took my rat/rabbit out of the room to do the final shot and this time around i was there. I just turned around but i saw the needled so i know what happen. Its just hard because it happen so fast, and he wasn't even a year old. I keep looking at my other two adult males and my girls from pet stores and i am very worried.

I'm so sorry for your loss. He was so strong; just like you've been. :heart:

I'm really sorry for your loss.  You did the right thing, which was vwery brave of you.  It sounds like he was in incredible pain.