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I had two rats, Albert who is a senior citizen and Stuart who is 2. After having them for a couple of months I decided to adopt another one from the same woman I had adopted my 1st two from. His name is Frodo. I totally screwed up the introduction, (I found out later) and after the initial meeting moved them all into a brand new martins 695 that I had bought for them. The first 10 days went great, they all slept together, no fighting at all. Then I came home from work to find that Frodo had beaten up Albert pretty bad. Albert had a long cut in his side, teeth marks in his back, and scratches all over his face. I bought a smaller cage and put Frodo in that with the thought of having him neutered and eventually returning him to the martins. Frodo and Stuart get along great. When I get them out for play time they groom each other, play chase, and cuddle. Today I notice that Albert has a mass on the right side of his face and it is draining a yellowish fluid out of his ear. I was out of town yesterday and am sure it wasn't there the day before. He won't let me exam it but his behavior seems normal. I am praying that it is not cancer. He sleeps alot and is skinny but the vet said that is normal with rats his age. He does not play at all. I am taking him into the vet tomorrow. If it is cancer how aggressive should I be? Also should I move him to the smaller one level cage where I can keep a better eye on him I hope and put Frodo in with Stuart? I'm sure Stuart and Frodo would love it but what about Albert, he and Stuart have been together for a very long time. Right now Stuart is visiting in Frodo's cage and does not want to come out. I hope this makes sense and I am not rambling too much. I have been in tears since I saw Alberts face.

i'm inexperienced in everything except neuro and respiratory, but it sounds like an abcess.  i'd take him straight away to the vets.

Yes, that does sound like an abscess.  Here is a helpful link:
http://ratguide.com/health/integumentary_skin/abscess.php
It does a good job of telling you how to manage and clean his wound.

 

Yep will all of the fighting and the extent of his wounds I am going to throw in the abscess vote as well.  Stick your nose up to it.  Does it smell like the most grotesq dying thing you have ever smelled.  If so then it is an abscess.   :icon_puke_r:

The wounds have all healed and there is no odor at all. The little he would let me touch it the mass was rounded,hard, not warm to the touch. In fact now that I'm thinking about it there never was a wound to that particular area of his face. Could it still be a abscess?  Should I move him to the one level cage?

Doesn't necessarily have to be a wound in that spot to abscess there.  That is just where the infection settled in his body.  It is very possibly it is closed up.  Most of the time you have to do warm compresses several times a day for a few days to get them to open up and then you spend several days expressing the most putrid puss out of the wound and working your butt off to keep the wound open and moist so that it heals from the inside out.

Leave him where he is as long as he is happy.  Get him in to the vet ASAP.  They may lance it open.  They may not.  Either way I am betting they will give you antibiotics for it.  Someone listed a link to the rat care guide on abscesses.  Read it.  It will tell you how to treat them and work with them.  But once the vet confirms it is an abscess then you really do need to get all of that puss out of the wound.  Don't rely solely on the Antibiotics.

Staci

I wish I was more experienced with abcesses, but that is what it sounds like.
I'd get your guy to a vet as soon as you can. Hope he is better soon!

You don't need to separate him from his cage-mate... abscesses are not contagious, and taking him away from his friend will just stress him out, which is the last thing you want to do to a sick rat...

As long as his cage-mate isn't beating him up or bothering the wound, it's probably best to leave them together.

Gotta love abcesses *gags* They will heal fine if you keep them open, keep them clean and a course of antibiotics. I have had a few here that basically exploded when I was soaking them and looked like a scene from The Exorcist..think pea green and rancid :icon_puke_l:

The vet has him on antibxs and a warm compress to the site twice a day. He lets the antibxs just slide right back out of his mouth and trying to do the warm compress's looks like a scene from the gladiator, (with him winning).  :help: I feel so incompetent!!!! There is not a dog out there that I can't handle and yet these tiny little creatures just seem to look at me like :BlueDumboSmileTongue:. I am taking him back tomorrow with my tail between my legs to the vet. Can't I give him injections? I'm a nurse it would be sooooo much easier.

Have you tried to trick him into ingesting the meds?

Try mixing the meds in a spoonful of maple syrup -- I had some very fussy girls who rejected the usual tricks (applesauce, yogurt, etc.) but even they could not resist the maple syrup.

Or if he doesn't want to lap anything up, try soaking the meds into cheerios and feeding him the cheerios.

OMG, that is a great idea!!!! Leaving to go get syrup from cupboard and grabbing the cheerios just in case. Keep your fingers crossed.

When my Shadowfax had recurring URI's when he was younger, mixing the meds with baby food always worked great. Good luck, sure hope you find something that works!

Being a rescue I medicate ALOT of rats and I also deal with ALOT of abscesses.

Trick to meds.  Syringe them into them.  Mix the meds ahead of time with Cherry Snow Cone Syrup or Hrsheys Chocoloate Syrup.  I have tried mixing my meds with every other kind of food under the sun but those are the two no fail things that my rats go ape nuts for and will actually beg for.  I have had other rat people try this who will also attest to this.

As for compressing the abscess it can definately be a trying task.  For face abscesses I find what works best is to take the rat to the living room so I can sit and watch a Movie while I am doing it.  I keep a warm pan of water next to me and large wash cloth.  I also have a very thick large bath towel.  I wrap said rat up like a burrito in the towel and then hold his with his back up to my chest (note between clevage).  I then press compress to face with one hand and scritch the other cheek with the other hand.  A firm grasp is needed and you may have to repeat this step several times.  When he tires of being forcefully held agains't the chest I then move to my leps and again burrito him in the towel and firmly hold him down in the crack of my lap.

For future reference if you ever have this happen again if the abscess is lower on the body like say the belly which they notoriously get after a fight then rather than forcing a compress agains't the belly it is easiest to just soak them in a tub of warm water or in the bathroom sink.

Also once the abscess starts to open up after compressing for a few days you will need to start to gently squeeze the puss out of the open wound.  You may have to express the puss several times throughout a weeks time span before it is all gone and cleared up. 

Just for reference here are pics from my most recent face abscess victim......

This pic was taken after I had gotten her and was just starting the compressing stage.  I believe I had compressed for a day or so.

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/OldsGal/DSCN2018.jpg)

This was taken a few days after working on the abscess.  The scab has come off.  Some puss has been expressed but it still needs work.

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/OldsGal/DSCN2019.jpg)

You can see some of the puss in this close up that still needs to come out.  Puss can come in all forms.  It can be a solid, a liquid, gravely, or hard like cartlige....

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/OldsGal/DSCN2021.jpg)

These pictures were taken after all of the puss had finally been removed and she can now begin the healing process from the inside out.

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/OldsGal/DSCN2039.jpg)

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/OldsGal/DSCN2040.jpg)

Hope this helps.

Wow...not to hyjack the thread, but wow.  It was like SO gross, but I had to keep looking.  I hope you and your rat are going to be ok rattie.  I think if I had to deal with something like that I'd throw up tbqh.  You guys are so brave!  I don't think I could do that at all!!!! :confused: :eek:

No offense, but could you give a warning before you show graphic bloody faced rat pictures?  :confused: I get a little squeamish sometimes!

ya, there are kids on the format so you may want to edit the title/

 It looks bad but they really do heal very fast. Apollo had a nasty one after a neuter and it closed up in a few days.  IT is better in long run for it to be open because the chance of infection is so great it is better left open

It could be an abscess caused by disruption of a normal tissue barrier through penetrating trauma, bites, or established infections. Go see the vet.

I saw the vet that is how I got the antibxs in the 1st place, in fact twice now. What kind of a person would not see a vet for something like this?  I have now gone through(or should I say wasted 2 bottles of medicine) trying to get my boy to take it. I will try the chocolate syrup and pray that it works. The abscess finally opened tonight and I was able to get some of the pus out. My fear is that he will go septic before I am able to get this under control. He is very old and was already skinny before this happened. I am just terribly worried about my sweet little old man. He does not have that awful odor tonight, which I am hoping is a good sign. I cannot imagine how much this must hurt him. OldsGal what kind of antibxs did you find worked best?  I did wrap him up like a burrito which allowed me to apply a warm compress to his face.

rattie love -- if he still won't take his meds, give him several different spoonfuls of (unmedicated) treats all at once -- yogurt, applesauce, maple syrup, chocolate syrup, cheerios, syrup from canned fruit, etc. Leave them with him in his cage for a few hours while you play with his cagemate outside of the cage (so cagemate doesn't eat them). Come back later and see what he ate.

That way you can figure out what he'll be willing to eat without wasting any more meds on the taste tests (anything he won't eat unmedicated, he won't eat medicated).

Can they flavor the meds for you?  We had to give meds once and they asked what flavor we wanted.  They made it taste like bananas, our baby just lapped it right up and wanted more.

Oh,what a horible and gross subject!I pray that your rat heals soon!You are sure doing everything to be a good rattie parent,though,so good job!Good luck to you!

Also,I sure hope I never have to deal with this,but if I do,I will now know exactly what to do.Goosemoosers are the most informed,inteligent and caring pet owners EVER!

You might have to be a bit forceful with the meds if he won't nicely take them after trying the choc syrup.  Which means holding the rat like a football under your arm with one hand and then gently by firmly shove that syringe into his mouth and quickly squirt it in.  Hold him kind of upwards so the meds can't run out of his mouth.  You might also have a treat that he likes such as a yogie handie and then immediately hand that to him after wards so that he learns that taking meds earns treats.

Also this is a good time to start training your other rats that treats come from syringes.  Start to give them food out of a syringe that is unmedicated so that they associate good things with syringes.  Then when you need to give meds they won't know the difference.

Typically I find that Baytril is the best at kicking an abscess and it works pretty quickly.  Don't worry about your little man!  As soon as you get it open and the ABs into him they he starts to get better.

Also since he is so skinny you might try to give him a lot of fattening foods to put some weight back on him.  Things that are high in fat and calories.  Ensure or Boost mixed with some baby cereal and a few drops of olive oil are always a hit here.  Avacados, Cottage Cheese, Cream Cheese, Baby Food, etc.

Good luck and feel free to let me know if you have any other questions.

Staci

I cannot thank everyone enough for all your replies. I tend to be a very protective mom when it comes to my animals and worry so much about them when something happens. My vet did not put him on Baytril so I will call this morning to see if we can change. I hope she does not want him to come in for another visit we have already had two in the week since this started, 1st visit was 159.00 and the 2nd was 65.00. If she does I will find the money some where, I mean my children don't have to eat everyday,lol.

I'm just curious now what AB did she RX to you?

Just wanted to add:  if you do try this method - to reduce the chance of your rat aspirating the meds -make sure you angle the tip of the syringe through the side of the mouth (against the opposite cheek) via the diastema (space after the front incisor teeth)  so that you don't squirt it quickly directly down their throat.     -- Like above, I usually hold them so their bodies are a bit vertical  - makes things easier.


About 98% of the time though, I'm able to find some food that foils them with meds mixed in. Some faves:  Baby food or cereal with sugar, yogurt (check antibiotic to make sure you can give with dairy) spaghetti sauce, (if sweet doesn't work try savoury) maple syrup,  corn polenta

May I just say what a humbling experience this has been. Here I am a R.N, B.S.N, with a ACLS certification and cannot give meds to a rat! You have to admit these little boogers have a tremendous will of their own. Albert is not the least impressed with my credentials and frankly right now neither am I,lol. Although OldsGAL, You are a Blessing! The chocolate syrup WORKED!!!!!! At least it did this morning  ::) The antibx she prescribed is SMZ-TMP, 1 ml twice a day. It is the same antibx they gave me for Stuarts feet. I managed to get the dose down this am before work but am going to have to get another bottle because I wasted this bottle trying to get him to take it. This will be bottle #3. They are starting to look at me strangely asking for so many bottles almost as if I'm selling this stuff on the black market to pay for my children's college  8) Should I ask for a different med?

I personally would definately request the Baytril.  According to Rat Guide SMZ-TMP is a Sulfonamide which and I quote..."Presence of pus or necrotic tissue will interfere with efficacy of the sulfonamides. For this reason their use is not recommended for application to skin in wounds, or for ophthalmic or vaginal infections."  Here is a link to that article if you want to print it out and take it to your vet....

http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/sulfonamides.php

Here is also a link to Rat Guides information about Abscesses that you can print out and take in to your vet that show what treatment options they recommend as well as what ABs they recommend.  But the one I have had the best luck with and the one that I think is the most awesome out of that list is the Baytril.

http://ratguide.com/health/integumentary_skin/abscess.php

I feel just sick about the fact that I have been stressing out poor little Albert by trying to give him meds that were not doing any good at all. :doh: I will print out the article and make yet another visit to the vet that I am rapidly losing faith in. Thank you so much for all your help.

Sulfonamide inhibitors in pus or necrotic tissue refer to topical (ointment) application not oral medication.  Note that in the ratguide link re: abscesses trimethoprim sulfa is recommended for abscesses and is a sulfonamide (combination) drug.

   Sulfonamides usually control the growth of bacteria instead of killing them (bactericidal) but in this combo both kill bacteria.

-- I've had good luck with enrofloxacin (Baytril) in abscess treatment too.