Hi all.  I posted last month asking for help in finding a male rat a home.   I arranged for my friend Holly to meet me at her dads house.  When I seen him in his cage I thought  "My God that is a huge Rat."  His cage was gross.  Holly just took him out and put him in my travel carrier I bought.  The whole way home he was really calm and didn't try to chew his way out.  My husband thought he was really awesome.  He said, "You desearve the chance to breed"  
We had Ben over night he was really calm and just nosed around the couch for a while before I put him in my spare cage in my bedroom.  I could hear Mike having Man to Man talks with him.  :cutelaugh:.  
Anyways Monday night I took him to his new home.  Lizz told me he was a Blue.  She also said she had been wanting a Blue for a while.

 It has been a couple weeks by now.  Now he lives with Lizz at Madratter.  The last time she emailed me she said he was doing really good and his scabs were nearly all gone.  She also said that if he continues to be healthy that she may breed him to a blue hooded female she has.  
I told her if she did then I would be intrested in a couple of the babies.    
The link is  to a pic of Ben.  

http://madratter.briantimmer.com/peds/ben.html

He is such a cutie. Very cuddleable.

I hope Lizz really thinks long and hard, weighing all the risks, before she breeds him though.

In the rescue community, it is an accepted RULE that ANY rescue animal is not bred,period -- even if it comes with the greatest pedigree on earth. The thought of someone breeding this rat makes me sick -- taking one unwated rat that happens to now have a home, and making more rats that could be unwatned and contributing to the already too large rat population.

Since you're involved in rescuing, you're clearly aware that there are too many rats and not enough homes. Wouldn't it feel better to help out some more of these rats, rather than contribute to the problem?

I'm not sure what to say about a rattery (I assume that's what Madratter is?) that considers breeding rescues with unknown backgrounds an acceptable practice. I hope that you show Lizz the links Anna posted and that she reconsiders.

I want to agree with others here.  Breeders should breed for health and temperment.  With out a pedigree how can you know the history of the line?

Look at LSR's rats. She has a  large # of rats.  Yet how many does she have pedigrees on?  Granted I know of good breeders that will breed rats with unknown lines from time to time.  Generally it will be with serious consideration and with a female with a good solid line.  A good percentage of Madhatter's rats had not rattery intials and it makes me wonder if they know the history?

Breeding a rescue rat with a STELLAR pedigree is also frowned heavily on.  Most educated rat owners are starting to look at these things.  It negates why we are going to breeders.  

I want breeder bred animals for these reasons.  

A,  I do not want to contrubite to poor breeding practices by giving my money to them.

B.  I want to improve the chances (Signifcanttly I might add) that I am getting a health and social animal.

Don't get me wrong I love my 4 pet store rats... They are wonderful but I do not want my money to go to a breeder that throws 2 rats in a tank and comes out with babies.  That is what the breeder of my pet store boys did.  I lost one animal young due to poor breeding.  I don't want to increase my chances of the heart ache AGAIN!

So I have learned I have to be picky about where I get my animals.  

Jennifer
(stepping off my soapbox now)

Why would neutering him and having him live with girls be unfair to him? Many people do that and those boys are happy.

Ruthie-  Nutering seems to be a controversal topic.  Personaly I think if would have been a good idea.  I have heard people say nutering is mean.  But to me it depends on the situation.  
Here I am wondering "what if".

Lenore-  I will email her. I just have to really think my words through.  I don't want to sound Like i am putting her down or anything.  

Thank you everyone  wish me luck
Kari

I've never heard of neutering being mean either.
Heck  I know someone who always gets her male rats neutered.

Wow.  I too am amazed at the controversy here.

Yes, Ben is a rescue, and his pedigree is unknown... however, that is no reason to absolutely exclude the idea of breeding him.  Many ratteries have responsibly bred pet shop or rescue rats with incredible results.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Curiousity Rats has done this, as has Silver Fuzz, Eagle's Eye, Deer Creek, and yes, even us here at Mead Hall, amoung others.
Remember, originally, no rats had pedigrees!  Also, just because a rat has a pedigree does not mean that breeding it is necessarily a good idea either. Pedigrees can hide rat aggression, allergies, cancers, likelyhood of respiratory distress, and defects just as throroughly as ignorance of an animals ancestors.

HOWEVER: to responsibly breed any animal, all things must be taken into account.  If Ben has an excellent temperament and disposition, is in good health and is resistant to disease, and is an attractive rat (which he seems to be), the pros seem to outweigh the cons.
If we are truely breeding to "improve" the pet rat stock, then their is no reason to exclude a rat that fits the about criteria.  Exclusively breeding pedigreed rats will eventually result in massive inbreeding; outcrosses are needed for healthy genetics.

Just my two sense,
Jess

I did I did!

Anyway, yes, some breeders do breed with unknown backgrounds and I know the reasons why etc. But it isn't something to be taken lightly, and if she does breed him later, then I would hope that she would keep track of all the babies throughout their lives to see if continuing him in the line is a good idea.

I'd like to reiterate what Kim said. When you take on a rescue it is because there are already too many rats that need homes. Breeding them just compounds the problem.
I'm personally trying to find homes for nearly 500 rats, and there just aren't enough homes already for rats with unknown backgrounds, someone bringing more into the world sort of feels like they're spitting in the face of every rescuer on the planet.

That is very true, but I think for that exact reason no animal that doesn't have a pedigree should be bred. If all breeders cut down to only breeding animals with pedigrees, of which it was known that all the animals in the line were healthy, then that WOULD help the unwanted rat problem, at least a bit. Saving breeding unless it was absolutely certain that everyone was healthy doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me!

No, but you can be more sure that a rat whose parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on were healthy, will produce healthy babies in turn, than you can be of a rat whose history you don't know. For all we know, that rat could have been the only member of its litter that survived, the mother could have died at 6 months of age, none of its ancestors could have lived longer than a year... you do