'Cause it's 1, 2, 3 strikes you're out at the.... vet's office?!

[zenith931]

My b/f and I were cleaning out cages today and we noticed that Hershey was sounding a little congested.  He's had a little myco flare up before, took him to the vet, he was on meds for a few weeks, boom, done.  No more.  Myco's pretty common anyhow.

So, Dave comments he doesn't want to go to the vet again.  I ask him why and he says that the vet said that after they get myco flare ups two or three times they want to put the animal down.   :huh:  She told him it restricts their quality of life.  While he's telling me this, I'm looking at Hershey wrestling around with his cagemates like nothing was ever the matter.  The first time he had myco he was perfectly fine, jsut a little wheezey.

While I appreciate the vet being concerned as to our animals' quality of life, isn't wanting to euthanize an animal that has the equivalent of a minor headcold a little over doing it?

I understand euthanizing if the animal has cancer or is going downhill dramatically and doesn't move, eat as much, etc.  But Hershey is 6 months old only and still bouncing aound beating on his cagemates, etc.  Why in the world would a vet want to PTS an animal like that?!

Is my vet a loon, severely misinformed... or have you heard of this before too?

I was always under the impression every rat has myco and every rat is liable to have a myco flare up, but treated accordingly and swiftly can be just fine through life.

Someone want to enlighten me, or is my vet a wacko?

(BTW, Hershey is just fine, apparently he didn't like the fact we waited a day longer than usual to clean the cage; he's fine now.)

[Penny20]

I've never heard of anything like that before.  A rat shouldn't be put to sleep before it's quality of life becomes poor.  When
it was thought that my rat had cancer the vet told me not to do anything if she is still able to maintain a happy life.  Thankfully it wasn't cancer and she is still alive over a year later.  They thought she had a month or two to live, but she's still here.  If I had put her to sleep I wouldn't have my precious baby today.  Maybe you should look for a new vet if this one is that drastic.

[BabyBlue]

That's ridiculous for many different reasons. First, not all myco flare ups are the same. Some are more serious than others, some will leave permanent damage while others won't. It's not a math equation where after a 3rd flare up the rat's quality of life comes into question. Second, just as there can be many degree of the problem, there can be many different treatments. So if one med doesnt work, you can try another, then another, or perhaps a combination of different meds. Only YOU can decide when it is time, not your vet.

Biscuit has been sick on and off all her life since she was 3 months old. When I brought her to my current vet (she's already been to another and didn't improve) she gave me Batril and Doxy and told me Biscuit probably won't make it anyways and would need to be put to sleep. I was devastated. Well she got better with the medicine, then got sick again not long after. I was away at school and brought her to a different vet there. She was put on Zithromax and hasn't been sick once since. She's reaching 2 year mark soon.

I still go to the vet who told me Biscuit won't make it, and I trust her to be competent. But this remains as a reminder to myself that vet isn't God and they're not necessarily right all the time. Do what YOU feel is right. Myco sure isn't the end of the world

[PA_Ratopia]

our old crotchety country vet (now dead!) told me that my shiloh's father was going to DIE when he had a little upper respitory infection that was cleared up with a bit of baytril from another vet. He told me I should put him down immediately (I was babysitting the rat over the summer! IMAGINE if his owner came back to a DEAD RAT! I couldn't phone her either she was in Ireland.), and that I was causing him to suffer... Besides he said 'He's just a rat'. Blech.

My new vet will do anything I ask of them, however both of them in the practice that have treated my rats HAVE told me when to draw the line, like with Chevy who did have cancer. They made him comfy until both I and they noticed him suffering.

[DebW]

I would have had an awful lot of rats die way too early if they had been put down after 3 myco flare ups.  Most flare ups don't significantly affect what they do and usually go away with the right treatment.  Decisions need to be made if the rat is constantly gasping, having panic attacks while trying to breathe, is not responding to treatment and is continuing to go downhill.

I think the owner knows his rat well enough to sense when it's time and it's not a decision a vet should make for you.

[kim]

i would ask this vet for a clarification before you go and assume anything - perhaps this is a big misunderstanding?

[zenith931]

Perhaps.  I was also under the impression that while she gave good meds that did work and did do the job, she wasn't very thrilled with her work.  She picked them up once each, looked at 'em and handed 'em off for an assistant to be weighed.  She didn't seem particularly interested.  I understand she might've been tired, she's seen this a million times before or whatnot, but -- I dunno.  She made it seem like it was a bad thing to go to the vet.  Nothing to look forward too, just so blah and grey.  

I dunno, a lot of other people had a lot of respect for their vets and such.  This one is just.... there.  

I very much disagree with what she said.  Perhaps she does mean if it's serious, leaves damage, etc.  Maybe she's under the assumption that all myco scars or damages the lungs?  

I know it's my choice to end my pet's life or not (gee, that seems such a... murderous way to say it, wasn't it?).  But I don't like the idea of going back to the bet's office for another med I'm hoping will work for a rat that's otherwise fine besides a little rasp or something while the vet continues to insist the rat be put down.

I just think that's horrendously wrong, granted I know little about veterinary medicine....  

[sugarfoxx]

Mac and cheese are at the ER vet.....AGAIN......second time in a month.

Well......they were only on the meds 7 days. I argued till I was blue in the face that I wanted 21 day supply. Nope. What did they think....I was going to sell them on the street corner?? DUH

So now they are back.  I was told they could have scar tissue. I said SHUSH AND READ THE LIST FROM THE RFC LOL !!!!!!
They did and put them on the steroids and bronchiodialator.......here is the best part.....ready?

He suggested if they dont make it I donate their bodies to the vet school up north from me for an autopsy so they can learn if they have scar tissue etc.  Free on my end   :huh:

??


I said NO THANKS DUDE.  


I didnt sleep well last night.  Nice place huh?

Find another vet ASAP if this one feels that way.  I think possibly mine have some scar tissue but they never were put on any kind of steroids or bronchiodialotors (sp) so I believe in a few more chances for pete sake.

[elegy]

is it really morbid that i would say yes to the autopsy as long as i were guaranteed a copy of the findings? i wish to god i could have found out what was really wrong with jon, but it would have been very expensive. since it was my vet and two referral vets involved with his treatment and nobody knew what was going on, it may have been helpful. i dunno.

i think it's totally ridiculous to say three flares and you're out. every case needs to be looked at individually. rats can have chronic problems and still have quite a good quality of life for some time.

zenith, i hope this was a misunderstanding, or that you can find a better vet! yeesh.

[pigsandrats]

If you understood the vet correctly, then I think it's time to get a new vet.

[menagerie]

is it really morbid that i would say yes to the autopsy as long as i were guaranteed a copy of the findings? i wish to god i could have found out what was really wrong with jon, but it would have been very expensive. since it was my vet and two referral vets involved with his treatment and nobody knew what was going on, it may have been helpful. i dunno.

I think that necropsy is very important in learning what has happened with our little guys. This past Sunday I lost my Bella and first thing Monday I was on the phone to Debbie D. to make arrangements for her to perform a necropsy. Deb performed necropsies when I lost Angel and Patches, if not for the necropsy I would have always wondered. Now I know that they had pituitary tumors and know what to look for in the future.

It is my personal belief that once a sole has passed the body is an empty vessel and anything that can be learned will benefit future generations. This is not something that I think is just for rats but all living beings. My beloved dog Bear died of lymphoma, which had spread to every organ of his body. However, every test that was run come up inconclusive. He was scheduled for an ultrasound on Monday, but collapsed on Sunday and started having seizures, he was helped to the bridge. The vets at the emergency clinic asked if they could perform a necropsy, they reviewed the tests my vet had performed and were stumped as to what was going on. Of course I said yes, I wanted to know what had happened and to help any animal that had similar symptoms in the future.

In the early 80's my grandfather had a stroke, which resulted in kidney failure; my mother and I gave the doctors permission for an autopsy to help future stroke victims.

Is it morbid, maybe, but if necropsy and autopsy help the living then I say go for it.  ** Menagerie steps off soap box**

And the three strikes position is BS.

[Kathleen]

If the vet really believes that a rat should be PTS after 3 flare-ups, I'd say it's time to find a new vet. Even if there is scarring, a rat can lead a good life after multiple myco flare-ups. My Moira has some pretty serious scarring, and I give her meds frequently in order to help her breathe easily. She is a very happy rattie despite her respiratory issues, and loves to frolic and romp just as much as my healthy animals.

You also mentioned that the vet was somewhat gruff...I think that's another reason you might want to look for someone new. If you don't feel comfortable with a vet, you don't want to have to work with that person when really difficult health issues come up. In the future, you might need to decide whether or not to help one of your rats end his or her life, or you might need to make an important decision about when to perform an operation...when those choices come up, you'll want to work with a vet you really trust.

[ruthiechan]

I agree. That's total BS.
Yeesh, if that were the case I'd have NO rats left, and they'd all have gone a long time ago. Makes me wonder what she would say about heart disease which is a common ailment in older ratties.  

I also agree with what Kathleen said about getting a new vet. Those are two good reasons to find someone else.

[sugarfoxx]

They have myco. They always have myco. According to the x-rays......Cheese has some deformities from birth no doubt....so I would know why they died (if this happens which I am trying hard not to let it)

I wont mention this again since this isnt my thread.....sorry sweetie that I mentioned my problems on top of yours. I always babble!

Get a new vet.  Really. My rats have fought off myco many many times and they are still going at 2 years old.  

[copperfieldmemory]

if you really love  an animal you will do whats best and if he can get better then why throw his life away because its a little beat up?

[angelratgirl]

they don't speak english, or french, or spanish, so why treat them as if they matter! what rubbish.  if doctors recommended this to patients, (and some people would believe them) we would have a lot of vacant appartments and a serious labor shortage, to put it nicely.

these little ones do matter, and they do talk, you just have to listen.  and i like to believe that the majority of people who come to this forum agree as to how much these little ones do matter.  and how much they can adjust to difficulties in health as long as we are willing to help them when they need it.