Hi, questions about breeding and ratteries

[MiCkEy]

Hi, I am just asking for opinions, and since this topic seems to get some people upset here, from what I've read, please dont get mad or anything, I just want to ask for opinions  please =)

First off, breeding. I have looked for through the internet and such, and haven't found too many ratteries/breeders around me, or that I could reach just yet. If someone wanted to start a rattery, and breed them to give to people who would like quality rats, would that really upset alot of you? It seems the biggest thing to it is that their are alot of rats out there already who need homes and such, and Im all for trying to take them in and save them, I now myself have 5 males and 3 females, I love them all, and probably wont breed them. All separated and such ^^

Im just asking, because honestly, I would someday like to have some of my rats mate, to see the miracle of their births, and to give love to the precious little babies, and also to provide rats to people who love them.

I have never even bred one pair, and wont for a long time most likely, but I just wanted opinions on what you thought about someone starting another rattery, or you know? There arent too many around or that I could find, and thought it might be helpful, but not at the sametime I guess.

Please, PLEASE dont anyone get mad at me or start yelling or anything, just expressing how I felt, and some thoughts =)

Also, I bought I giant cage for my rats today, and on my way home, this lady I guess noticed it from the back seat, and yelled out of her car at me asking if I was a breeder, and then pulled over to ask if I could breed her some specific rats. That's what brought me here to ask =)

Again, please, no anger ^^ Please? =)

[BabyBlue]

Hi! This IS a sensitive topic around here huh? I would be afraid to ask this type of question, so I commend you for your bravery. LOL

I'm a new rat owner so I don't want to step on any toes with my opnions, just thinking aloud from what I've learned so far from everyone else's discussions.

I don't think everyone's against BREEDING itself really, it's just that there are so many people out there who does this without the proper knowledge. Before I've learned all the things about breeding, and why many people were against so called "backyard breeding", I might've bred my animals without knowing about the serious consequences (such as health issues). Everyone here is concerned with the improvement of rat's health and fear that irreponsible breeding could stunt the effort of many responsible breeders.

But all breeders have to start SOMEWHERE. I just don't think it's something to be done in a whim, just because you know a couple of people who might want rats or you want cute babies. You are being responsible for the LIVES of these animals, and we need to take this seriously. Just because you can get some CUTE animals, mix and match different colors, doesn't qualify you as a good breeder.

I think breeding involves A LOT more than some of us (including myself) think we know, and should only be done with most careful considerations and A LOT of education. I'm sure many of us have good intentions, but we have to remember that good intention by itself can actually HURT these rats in a long run, not help them.

To many responsible rat breeders out there, I wonder if by insisting that people just SHOUDLN'T breed rats, you're giving off the wrong impression that you're totally against all breeding, and cause people to be afraid to ask any questions about breeding at all. I know there are many rescue rats that need homes, but rescuing them all isn't the ONLY answer to rat problems is it? Educating the future breeders so that they can do it responsibly is also important in my opinion.

That being said, I would one day like to get involved with rescuing rats instead of trying to breed rats myself, when the time is right. I don't think it's any easier, just thought that might be more constructive for the rat community. Just something to think about.

[Anna]

I'm probably one of the most seriously opposed to irresponsible breeding.
There are so many things to consider, not just if you can find homes for the babies, and if they'll be well taken care of by people who have the time and money to devote to having pet rats, but there is also the issues of having and breeding a strong, healthy stock.
No good, responsible breeder uses pet shop rats in their stock, because of the serious health problems that can be introduced into lines.
You can get a lot more information about this by looking up the "responsible breeders" thread.

My very personal issue is usually the competence of the breeder themselves. In my opinion, someone who is incapable of taking care of themselves and being self sufficient should absolutely not be breeding rats. I find myself getting angry at a series of young teenagers who have no idea what is in the background of their rats, breeding them because it will be fun.
Emergency surgery (try a c-section at 2 am) is highly expensive (over $200) plus issues about getting to the vet, etc.
Plus a lot of parents might not want to drive and pay for something like that. So it is my personal feeling that someone not living on their own and self sufficient shouldn't be taking on the responsibility of breeding.

I'm not against breeding itself, I'm against uninformed, irresponsible breeding, when it is not to improve the health of the line and species.
I know that plenty of people out there will disagree with me, that 15 year olds may be perfectly capable of carrying on a responsible breeding operation, but I have yet to see proof of that.
I also think there are plenty of breeders already out there, some responsible, some not. I don't really see any circumstances where adding another breeder (no matter how responsible) and increasing the already high rat population would be something I would personally support.


Anna

Let the critiques begin!

[6th Happiness Rodentry]

"... haven't found too many ratteries/breeders around me, or that I could reach just yet...."

Where are you?

"... If someone wanted to start a rattery, and breed them to give to people who would like quality rats, would that really upset alot of you?...   It seems the biggest thing to it is that their are alot of rats out there already who need homes and such..."

Does it upset YOU?  Do you feel its right or not right?  

Yes we could all give up breeding and only rescue- but then who will be left breeding?  People breeding for feeders and to stock petshops.  Too many of us already know by experience these animals are often not very healthy, they aren't being bred for long life spans etc.  

"... Im just asking, because honestly, I would someday like to have some of my rats mate, to see the miracle of their births, and to give love to the precious little babies, and also to provide rats to people who love them...."

Although those are great reasons to enjoy being a breeder, I don't think those should be the reasons you become a breeder.  Responsible breeders are always trying to improve the population.  You always need to be looking both backwards in pedigrees (for information) and forwards for planning on how to bring out the best traits while reducing bad ones. You need to be able to override your feelings of "but snookums is my favorite rat, and I want to breed her and share her offspring with my friends" when logic tells you "snookums has diabetes, a weight problem, bumblefoot and malocussion, all traits which may have a genetic influence, so she should not be bred"


"... I just wanted opinions on what you thought about someone starting another rattery, or you know?..."

Can you afford quality cages for many animals?
Can you afford proper bedding, quality food, and other pet supplies on a weekly basis?  (dependign on the size of your rattery this could be $20 a week or $200+)
Do you have a rat experienced vet and can you afford them on a regular basis (lots of animals means more chance of soemone getting injured or sick and needing to see the vet!)
Do you know some basics of genetics or are you willing and interested in learning?
Will you be able to kep up a cleaning schedual for many animals and cages?
Will allergies interfear with your having many animasl, bedding, dust, etc.?
Do you care about the future of the species' genetic health and accept that as a breeder you have a responsibility to positively influence that future with every litter you produce?
Are you willing to screen interested people before placing animals?
Can you keep and care for any animals in a litter that are born as long as necissary to find them quality homes (or to keep them if you can't find homes for them?)
After raising a litter of rats- will you be able to place them (or will you get too attached!)?
Can you emotionally deal with the risks of breeding (females can die in labor, babies could be stillborn or have genetic diseases etc.)?
Will you keep records of all your breedings, of individual animal's health, etc so that you can look over animal's lineages/pedigrees, recognize trends in lines and identify potential problems to avoid and ideal traits to select for?
will you join clubs and online groups to keep in touch with other breeders and stay up to date on new issues of health, pet care, breedign etc.?

Im sure theres other things im forgettign because its late im tired... but If you are saying "yes" as you read the above you probably could be a good breeder.  if you are saying no, or thinking im being overly negative, maybe rescue or just pets is more your style.

[Deedles]

Very good post 6th Happiness Rodentry!

Mickey,

I cant really comment on breeding itself, since I have no experience...

You posted a few days ago, that you where looking for a breeder near Burbank california... I posted a few links to find breeders near you (which, trust me... there are TONS).

Did you look?

Im not attacking you, but since visiting rat boards... I keep hearing the typical... "I cant find a breeder near me so I was thinking of breeding... "

But people dont even look! You might have to drive 30 minutes, or an hour to a breeder, but if you cant afford to do this, you definately cant afford to be a breeder (what if the only good vet you found was 2 hours away?) If somebody doesnt invest some time searching out breeders in their area... how likely are they to look up information needed to breed healthy, socialized rats?

Not to mention, im sure there are TONS of animal rescues in the LA county.

Again... im not attacking you... but have you really done your research?

-D

[BabyBlue]

My very personal issue is usually the competence of the breeder themselves. In my opinion, someone who is incapable of taking care of themselves and being self sufficient should absolutely not be breeding rats. I find myself getting angry at a series of young teenagers who have no idea what is in the background of their rats, breeding them because it will be fun.

I'd hate to sound like an "adult" and say things like teenagers are irresponsible etc. I know there are many out there who are VERY responsible and take care of themselves as well as their animal companions.

But... teenage years for many are like a bumpy road. There are many changes, physically as well as emotionally, relationships, college, etc. I'm not sure even with the complete cooperation from their parents, if they are able to focus on rat breeding as well as everything else that's going on in their lives.

Sure 15, 16 year old girls are capable of having babies, with their parents help or not, but would we recommend that? Is breeding rats much different? Not to put down any young breeders out there, I'm sure some of you are doing a great job, but just want you to think about if what you're doing is in the best interest of the ratties.

Sorry if I offended anyone. But being able to take constructive criticism is also another sign of responsibility :p

[Raven Paw]

I also think there are plenty of breeders already out there, some responsible, some not. I don't really see any circumstances where adding another breeder (no matter how responsible) and increasing the already high rat population would be something I would personally support.

I don't think there's anything wrong with more responsible breeders, it's the irresponsible ones we need to have less of.  The more responsible breeders, the more happy, healthy, and long lived ratties we have.

[Suebee]

I'm not against breeding itself, I'm against uninformed, irresponsible breeding, when it is not to improve the health of the line and species.

That pretty much sums up my view in a nutshell.

It's not just about creating animals for people who want pets, or experiencing the miracle of birth -- those are probably the two worst reasons to want to get into breeding. The third one is money: there is no money in breeding. If you're looking to make a profit, get a paper route or a job at McDonald's -- both pay better than breeding.

It's primarily about improving the species overall, in health and temperament, and then providing those healthy animals with good homes -- where they will be taken care of properly and receive medical care when needed.

Breeding takes a LOT of research, including a heaping dose of genetics. If you can't wrap your brain around basic genetics, then it's probably not a good idea to venture into breeding. I won't beat this to death in this thread, because it has been discussed MANY times in other threads over the last two weeks.

It's not that we're against breeding in general, it's just that it seems to be a losing battle convincing people that it is not something to be taken lightly. There is so much knowledge, study and responsibilty involved that we just want people to take a moment and REALLY think about what they might be getting themselves into.

Like I have mentioned before, I have been keeping rats for six years now, and I know that breeding is not for me -- it's too much work, money, and responsibility, and is just not something I can add to my life and really devote myself to. Though I'd love to witness the miracle of birth and have pinkies to play with, etc., my common sense is in overdrive.