Rats in time for Christmas, Fl.

[SummerRainRodentry]

My rat Sunshine just gave me a litter of precious babies that will be ready for homes for Christmas. I have 4 russian blues, pretty sure one is an Agouti, and the others Bershires, and I have one or two beautifully marked Variegated, I am still trying to classify the rest on colors etc. They are adorable. I am also working on sexing them. If you are interested let me know.   I am working on lineage. I know the mom and dad of the Mom. And possibly so on. But I have to check on the dad.


Also I just got a Norwegian Rexed Hairless. I dont have a pedigree on her, but she is absolutely precious. I think she is a Siamese because she has a dusted nose and a creamed body like one, but has red eyes. She is a cutey. I wish to breed her in the future, once I place the ones above, if any one is interested let me know. I will reserve one for you. First come/first serve.  I won't breed unless I can place the X many possible she might have. I have a few odd eyed carrier males on the premises that I might breed her with. Their dad is a blue. If you are interested give me a shout. Thanx. Summer.  

[BabyBlue]

Also I just got a Norwegian Rexed Hairless.

Im sorry. You got WHAT??? :huh:

[Amphigorey]

Also I just got a Norwegian Rexed Hairless.

Im sorry. You got WHAT??? :huh:

 I second that...Not to be mean but I've been breeding and doign rescue for years - what the heck is a Norweigan Rexed Hairless? First of all - hairless implies that there is no hair on the body. Rex implies curly coat. There are Rex and Teddy that are coat-curling or waving genes, and then when you double up on those you get semi-hairless rats sometimes called "Double Rex" (from the doubling of genes). Then there are quite a few types of hairless gene that make for rats that are completely nude or have very small short hair on the face, genitals, belly, etc. - BUT this is completely separate from Rex. Last concern, why is she "Norweigan" It's pretty darned hard to get rats shipped from Europe, not to mention very expensive. Why would you go through the trouble without knowing the background? Sounds like whoever you got her from gave you a bit of a story.  There are a few good breeders in this state - why not stop breeding animals without a known background and consult with one of them to be mentored and obtain good quality breeding ratties? There are already plenty of pet store, mass produced, and randomly inbred animals in rescue already  Please don't view this as an attack - I'm just suggesting you do a bit more research before continuing to produce litters with unknown backgrounds since it seems you are just starting out... Best Regards, J

[SummerRainRodentry]

I did not ship etc. She was at a pet shop, a breeder brought her in. They told me that she was a haairless and was Norwegian. She does have fur but it is really soft and has that baby hair look, I can't explain it really well, its a bit curley, and her wiskers are curled. I also have a right to breed, and become a good breeder just like those that are out there. I aM JUST ACCOUNTABLE for all the rats that are born under my care. including placing them in the best possible homes etc.

[heatherbee]

I think this might have stemmed from the fact that all of our rats are Norweigan Rats and then some misunderstanding between the breeder that brought the rat in and the petstore.  Perhaps the petstore is not aware that this is what all fancy rats are.

[Amphigorey]

I think this might have stemmed from the fact that all of our rats are Norweigan Rats and then some misunderstanding between the breeder that brought the rat in and the petstore.  Perhaps the petstore is not aware that this is what all fancy rats are.

 Could be! Unfortunately though it seems *many* stores I've visited throughout our state are more interested in making a buck and will come up with all sorts of fancy names. A chain that is now closing called "Jack's" had rats with docked tails and were calling them "dumbos". They also have had hairless, and actual dumbos....but all of their employees were convinced that dumbo meant "stuby tail like an elephant". I'm not kidding! I brought up a hairless baby with standard ears and a tail scarred from fighting - the girl there excitedly told me that was "a big eared dumbo"

[EmilyRugburn]

I also have a right to breed, and become a good breeder just like those that are out there.

So, you realize you'll never accomplish the "good breeder" part if you're using pet store rats as your breeding stock, correct?

[heatherbee]

[quote author=Amphigorey
 Could be! Unfortunately though it seems *many* stores I've visited throughout our state are more interested in making a buck and will come up with all sorts of fancy names. A chain that is now closing called "Jack's" had rats with docked tails and were calling them "dumbos". They also have had hairless, and actual dumbos....but all of their employees were convinced that dumbo meant "stuby tail like an elephant". I'm not kidding! I brought up a hairless baby with standard ears and a tail scarred from fighting - the girl there excitedly told me that was "a big eared dumbo"

Haha, yeah, I tend to give petstores a little too much credit.  Must be the good person in me . . . I'm sure it's there somewhere.

[Suebee]

Before this gets nasty, I want it to be clear that this community, as a whole, greatly frowns upon breeding from pet store stock. Our main interest is improving the species, overall, and this is hard to do with unknown factors.

Breeding Ethics and Our Community

If you would like to truly become a good breeder, I personally recommend you hook up with a reputable breeder and "apprentice" with them. This way, you can start off with good stock, instead of relying on unpedigreed pet store rats with many, many, many unknowns, genetically.

[Amphigorey]

Before this gets nasty, I want it to be clear that this community, as a whole, greatly frowns upon breeding from pet store stock. Our main interest is improving the species, overall, and this is hard to do with unknown factors.

Breeding Ethics and Our Community

If you would like to truly become a good breeder, I personally recommend you hook up with a reputable breeder and "apprentice" with them. This way, you can start off with good stock, instead of relying on unpedigreed pet store rats with many, many, many unknowns, genetically.

 On this note - I'd like to at least post what I've learned personally, and learned from many other breeders and through rescue. Maybe, SummerRain, it will help give you the perspective I'm coming from when I write you with concern. There ARE people out there willing to mentor and help you find good breeding animals! Keep in mind this is only an informed rant aimed toward anyone breeding petstore rats - not just you. Thanks.

I did not ship etc. She was at a pet shop, a breeder brought her in. They told me that she was a haairless and was Norwegian. She does have fur but it is really soft and has that baby hair look, I can't explain it really well, its a bit curley, and her wiskers are curled. I also have a right to breed, and become a good breeder just like those that are out there. I aM JUST ACCOUNTABLE for all the rats that are born under my care. including placing them in the best possible homes etc.

 Please note again, I'm not trying to be bossy, or argue, or tell you you MUST do things a certain way, but what you are saying does not sound quite right.
 
 Responsible breeders do not go looking to breed rats for their "pretty fur" first - First they look for other rats, with KNOWN backgrounds - as in AT LEAST 3 GENERATIONS (this s typically what is on a Pedigree). This is generally the first criteria - that way you can speak to the breeder you are getting them from about the HEALTH, TEMPERAMENT, and LONGETIVITY. These are many, many times more important than pretty coat, pretty colour, pretty eyes, markings,etc. Without these, what do you have? Rats with unknown backgrounds that look nice - but when you place them with people you can't have ANY idea really if these animals are going to have a higher risk of developing tumors at an early age, respiratory infections easily, have agressive behaviour upon reaching a certain age, or a myriad of other problems. These things are what all responsible breeders work so hard for! By buying pet store rats to start your rattery, you could easily be setting up your lines to fail in the near or distant future.
 
 You cannot "become a good breeder just like those that are out there" by buying rats with no known health and temperment histories (backgrounds) and hoping that each generation will not have a problem somehow. The only way you can better control the *quality* of animals you put out there is to START with good quality.
 
 Whatever "breeder" brought this poor girl in didn't care anything about her well-being. No responsible breeder will do something like that! Think about it - if they didn't care about her general well-being, they very likely didn't care about producing a happy, healthy rat along with the "rare" attribute.
 
 You're right - you do have a right to breed, and to produce animals that will potentially have various health and temperment problems. It's really not fun to be accountable for that, as you say you will be. What happens if one, or every single baby that goes to a new home can't be handled financially, physically, or emotionally by their new owner because they have tumors, or even worse because their male  rat is agressive because of a testosterone imbalance that only surgery can help? Do you have the funds to neuter an entire litter's worth of males, and remove and treat cancer/tumors of the females? That is being accountable - being there if the owner cannot do it. And it happens even in good lines now and then - either a health problem in an individual rat, or the owner had a life situation change and suddenly can't keep their rats.
 
 All of this boils down to the fact that if you want to be a responsible breeder, you need to do your best to HELP the rat fancy - do you really want to be "accountable" for being "that girl who breeds pretty rats that die young"?I'm not saying that it wll happen at all - but why take that chance? As I said previously there are a few responsible breeders in Florida, as well as the southeast, that are willing to mentor people starting out. That means helping them learn about different varieties, risks in breeding those varieties (such as hairless or white-marked rats), good confirmation, and other things that are secondary to the *foundation* of health and temperament - AND providing them with good foundation rats that are of breeding quality and/or helping them find such animals from another breeder they trust. This may mean waiting, but wouldn't you rather produce animals you know are going to have the best possible chance of living out their lives in their new homes with no major health problems, and then when those rats pass on of old age having those people come back to you because they loved their rats so much? Unless you are going to keep the entire litters you breed - that is what adopters want. If all they want are pretty colours and not other important attributes - they are the wrong kind of people to be dealing with in the first place. Responsible breeders do have many fancy colours and coat types - but those are SECONDARY to everything I've talked about.
 
 Please remember that I am just trying to save you, and future rats born, the heartache that comes in non-pedigreed rats. You will not prevent problems just by thinking "it won't happen to my rats"...I have seen *many* rats in my rescue and taken in by others that were bred by breeders who started out in pet store stock with unknown backgrounds, and it would take hours to write all of the problems I saw in those poor ratties. The same problems were seen time and time again in rats that people couldn't keep anymore that were purchased directly from the pet stores.
 
 If you are interested in a referral to a mentor, PM me and I am happy to do direct you to someone who is available to do so. If nothing else, please do some searches on google on rat varieties and health concerns, and do a little research. The only reason we even found out this rat was from a pet store was because they told you a silly made up name!   Thanks for your time. Best Regards, J

[SummerRainRodentry]

YOu know Suebee, You may have a point. But I have one quick question. If you have a rat with a good background, and you see a rat with the potential to better the rat species, would you not at least consider breeding it?

Oh, ah how do I hook up with a good reputable breeder, and get good rat "stock"? I truly do want to become a good breeder, so I must ask. I only have one rat from a petshop on the premises. I have done a bit of research though. The rest of my rats have a lineage of atleast 2-3 generations if not more. But I do want the help. Where do I start? I get the message, and I am taking heed, thanks.

[Lone Star Rats]

Suebee is not a breeder, and I cannot speak for her, but I'd bet her answer is "no".  Trust me when I say that PLENTY of people out there have "breeding quality" rats as pets without even the slightest thought of breeding any of them.  Just because of a rat meets all of the "criteria" to be bred doesn't mean that it should.  Also, a pedigree or even just knowing lineage doesn't mean much at all.. unless you know what to look for, and you know how to use it for research.  A pedigree is just a list of ancestors, just knowing who they were is NOT enough!

As far as anything else goes, Amphigorey pretty much said it all.

[Suebee]

Suebee is not a breeder, and I cannot speak for her, but I'd bet her answer is "no".

You know me well.

Yep, my answer would still be no.

[kmw]

Oh, ah how do I hook up with a good reputable breeder, and get good rat "stock"? I truly do want to become a good breeder, so I must ask.

Jen of Amphigorey, in her last paragraph, said to contact her privately if you would like to find a mentor to learn about rat breeding.