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Goosemoose Pet Portal > Rats Rule! > Rat Care Corner (Moderators: Goosemoose, kmw, Suebee, scout, Marybelle, Dearpie, WS, knuckles, TheChicagoCrew, ratqueen) > HELP, Bacterial Infection killing my rats *Update Results*
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Author Topic: HELP, Bacterial Infection killing my rats *Update Results*  (Read 1251 times)
Adventure Rats
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« on: January 23, 2004, 01:56:42 PM »
It all started with PEWie. She passed on Monday the 19th from a massive bacterial infection (found out with a necropsy). We know it is Cocci Bacteria, but will not know just which one until tomorrow sometime.

PEWie's lungs were covered on the outside with a think white substance and a weird yellow substance. My vet said it was like puss but caked on more like plaque. There was one kind of bacteria only and it is NOT myco.

PEWie had seizure like moments, small but still a type of seizure. This hit fer fast and killed her within 5 days (at the most).

Now Moonie is showing signs. She was PEWie cage mate and there are 8 others besides Moonie. She was fine yesterday morning. Last night she wasn't her slef and she has gone downhill quickly since then. She had a small seizure this morning, is very warm to the touch and her heart is working very hard right now.

I'm totally worried now. I was hoping that this was an isolated thing with PEWie but now I know it is not. The other 23 rats that live with us are showing no signs. No sniffles, no sneezing, no nothing. The other rats Moonie lives with do have sniffles and sneezes, except Minnie and Flash. Everyone has been on Doxy and there is no improvement.

After doing some reading, on line, I guessing a strep bacteria. It can cause abcesses in the brain, which wouls cause seizures. It was also produce gangrene, which I'm sure PEWie had since her tail had turned black.

I need imput, well wish any advice or info. you can suggest. My vet doesn't want to go and just try different antibiotics, we are one day away from knowing just what it is and what will kill it.

If Moonie dies, her necropsy will be of the brain also. I will not let her suffer and if this is going to do to her what it did to PEWie and I need to have put to rest.

This is especially hard, these 10 rats are my main and first  group. If I had never taken to rescues over the last year or so I would still have them. They pretty much started this (they aren't my first rat BTW).

Moonie is a Dearpie baby BTW, she is only just over a year old and she is one of our favorites, she is actually her Daddy's favorite.

Soory it's so long, I just need to get this out.

 Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Me
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 05:03:03 PM by Adventure Rats » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2004, 02:04:26 PM »
I'm so sorry about this illness. I hope the Vet finds out what it is in time to save your babies.

*Praying for you* Puppy Dog Eyes:
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2004, 02:06:30 PM »
*HUGE HUGS*  Heather, have you had this cultured so you know what it responds to?? That would be my first plan of action IMMEDIATELY.  Find out what the bacteria is specifically and take it from there.  Get the rats on the STRONGEST antibiotic and knock it out.   I'm SO SORRY this is happening!!!!  If it's strep, is it an air-born virus?  Or would it be contained to the one cage.  I'd remove the rats that aren't showing any symptoms at this point, hoping to spare them.   AND get the 'sick ones' into a totally different area of the house.  Sad  GOOD LUCK ...  many prayers are going out for your and your ratties................    Heart
« Last Edit: January 23, 2004, 02:10:46 PM by Dearpie » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2004, 02:12:11 PM »
Quote from: Dearpie on January 23, 2004, 02:06:30 PM
*HUGE HUGS*  Heather, have you had this cultured so you know what it responds to?? That would be my first plan of action IMMEDIATELY.  ~~~~ I'd remove the rats that aren't showing any symptoms at this point, hoping to spare them.   GOOD LUCK ...  many prayers are going out for your and your ratties................    Heart

Yep, I find out tomorrow, I hope, what the bacteria is. I spoke with Therese (ckhs) and she thinks I should pull Minnie and Falsh also, so I'm doing that s soon as I'm home.

I did some reading and seems like this a contact issue, oh it better be or we are in trouble.
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2004, 02:15:56 PM »
I am so sorry, Heather.  I'm sending out good wishes that you find out what this is before you lose anymore rats to it.   Heart

Please let us know what it is as soon as you find out.
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2004, 02:28:32 PM »
OMG I am so sorry.  Please keep us posted.  I am very anxious to know.

I will pray very hard for your pets!
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2004, 02:29:37 PM »
Oh heather I'm so sorry to hear about this  Cry I sure hope you find out what is happening and get it treated.

I was wondering today if maybe the rats from that rescue had weak immune systems and/or other problems due to inbreeding.  Or at least one of the 5  litters was like that.  Rosebud has always had problems and currently has two tumors.  And Dearpie has said that a couple of the girls she kept have had problems. Sad

we all have our fingers crossed for Moonie and all the others.
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2004, 05:11:54 PM »
Oh my God!

I'll pray for your ratties and you.... Worry Sad 2

**big big hug**
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2004, 05:15:06 PM »
Oh, my. This is serious. Keep us posted, Adventure Rats. I'm hoping for the best on this.
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2004, 07:00:48 PM »
Strep is a bacteria, not a virus, and can't be spread except by contact. I'm a microbiologist so I can tell you that strep, and other bacteria, are normal fauna found on almost all living things including rats and humans.  Usually it only becomes a problem when your immunity is compromised or you get an infection.  It shouldn't be passed from your rats as long as they aren't in contact with each other physically..and even then it's not "contageous" per se.  hope yours do well and don't get sick
 
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2004, 07:39:13 PM »
Quote from: merlin7676 on January 23, 2004, 07:00:48 PM
Strep is a bacteria, not a virus, and can't be spread except by contact. I'm a microbiologist so I can tell you that strep, and other bacteria, are normal fauna found on almost all living things including rats and humans.  Usually it only becomes a problem when your immunity is compromised or you get an infection.  It shouldn't be passed from your rats as long as they aren't in contact with each other physically..and even then it's not "contageous" per se.  hope yours do well and don't get sick
 
merlin

Oh thank you!! Moonie is looking like herself but slugish. I should know more tomorrow about the bacteria that is causing this. As soon as I hear, you will all know also.

Thanks for the thoughts of well being. We all appreciate it.
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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2004, 01:35:18 AM »
Sorry to hear this, Heather! Cry So this is from the school teacher's group? Some of those rats have been ultra healthy. My Hanny and two others (Kesha's) have never even had respiratory problems. I sure hope no one else gets sick and Moonie gets better. Every toe, finger and eye crossed here!!!!
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2004, 08:55:39 AM »
I have two from that group and Domino is so healthy!!  then there is poor rosebud who started getting her first tumor before she was a year and has always can staining around her one eye Sad


still hoping for the best here AR
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2004, 10:17:03 PM »
I'm so encouraged to hear that Moonie is better. Major prayers and healing thoughts to all of you. If your vet is culturing the bacteria, please ask if he will order a sensitivity also. More of the bacteria is grown on the dish and tested against different antibiotics. This would really tell you what to treat with if you have more troubles. (A sensitivity should grow in about 48 hours.) Is that still right, Merlin? It's been a while since I've been in the Bact-T lab!
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2004, 04:59:36 AM »
How is she doing? Any updates? Worry
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2004, 01:50:30 PM »
No news on the bacteria but Moonie is a-okay!!! Thanks god. My Dearpie (school teacher girls) have all been very healthy. PEWie was not one of them. Moonie, Shine and JillyAnn are the Dearpie girls. Other then the mistery foot thing with JillyAnn everybody has been very healthy.

As soon as I know more I will let you know. Right now I'm watching closely and praying a lot.

Thanks
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2004, 03:12:51 PM »
WHEW!!!!   I'm so thrilled for you and Moonie!!! *HUGS*
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2004, 05:46:16 PM »
I was so sorry and then glad reading this thread.  I hope things continue to improve!

*impressed that we have a microbiologist amongst us! cool..
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2004, 06:49:20 PM »
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impressed that we have a microbiologist amongst us! cool..


I agree.  Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2004, 11:51:21 AM »
  From my experience in the lab(another microbiologist here): I agree that Strep (some types especially e.g. Group A Strep) is transmitted by contact, but the definition of contact has to be revised.   What I mean by this is that aerosol, and droplet contact (sneezing, coughing) can help the spread of Strep-type bacteria.  That is why we work under a hood or wear masks when working with these type of bacteria.  Thus make sure that you clean up all the surfaces, etc...  where your poor rattie lived, and that any ratties showing signs of illness are physically separated from the others.  Also, keep an eye out for sudden abscesses, just in case...  If that was to happen make sure to remind the vet of what happened with your other rattie, systemic sterp is nothing to play around with.
  A good question to ask the vet when you get the results, ask if the bacteria was beta-hemolytic, if it is then keep an eye out for any symptoms in theother ratties (beta-hemolytic Strep tend to be more easy to pass around).
  Good luck, and I am very sorry for your loss.
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2004, 12:09:39 PM »
*SEMI-HIJACK*

IF it's systemic strep, you mention abcesses??? THAT is what I'm dealing with!!!  The vet said it's a strep bacteria.  The lab told him any antibiotic should take care of it, but then the vet said, it's an ABCESS!  OH!!! was the response.   Any brilliant ideas?  I've got my girl on zithromax and vibromycin, and she still grows abcesses ..... we just switched from baytril and cefa-drops.  SIGH ....
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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2004, 10:20:05 AM »
  I actually had a female rat that had recurrent abscesses that went away after a spay (I am not one to spay every female as I have lost females due to spays).  The spay was a last ditch effort as my vet thought that hormones may have something to do with it also.  He also treated her with amoxicillin shots and to this day I am not sure what truly helped, whether it was the spay or the daily shots she received for 5 days.  Her abscesses had a mix of bacteria that included Strep.  
  I currently have a male that had recurrent neck abscesses due to Strep that did go away after 2 months of Baytril and 3 vet procedures to get them out.  His abscesses were heavily encapsulated thus the antibiotic couldn't penetrate to kill the bacteria.  He also got shots every time there was an abscess removal-this may sound too graphic, but he would actually give him a shot in the area of the abscess.  She may need direct antibiotic treatment, are her abscesses easy to pop or are they hard and deep in the skin tissue?  That would be the only way I can see shots helping.  I hope this helps.
  In all I ended up having to take hours fro work daily to take care of these critters for the vet's visits (I do not feel confident enough to give shots), but it was worth it.
 
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2004, 11:32:19 AM »
I remember Yin getting a shot for her abcess directly into the abcess. I was SOLID.
After that, and antibiotic treatment for a week, it was GONE. I could see improvement the following day.

Adventure Rats, any news on what kind of bacteria it is?
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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2004, 05:09:38 PM »
Ok I have most of the info. My vet called me thisf afternoon. There were 2 types of bacteria, Strep and Staph Shocked 2 The sensativity for the strep isn't back yet but it is for the staph. Baytril (and baytril type drugs) aren't going to work. So we will use Clavamox 2X a day for 14 days and see how we are from there. My vet says no rats are to come into our place for at least 60 days. So that means the 12 fosters have to stay in the trailer (still better then where they were before).

I can't believe I knew it was strep, but I am shocked at the staph infection.

There are side effects to Clavamox but nothing life threatening.

So wish us luck, hopefully nobody else will fall sicker. All other 9 rats are slightly sneezy with 2 showing more sickness then others.
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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2004, 08:43:31 AM »
Good luck, Heather.  Fingers crossed things only get better from now on!  

Out of curiosity, do you know exactly which staph and strep were found?  
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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2004, 10:24:58 AM »
Wow.  What a mess!  I'm glad you found out though what was going on and hopefully now can put an end to it.  I just had my vet out here tell me about Clavamox and how he thought it would be very useful in rats.  

I will pray for your furkids (and you to get some rest) and hope that things turn around.
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