is breeding hairless rats "wrong"?

[elegy]

i posted on my webpage all excited about the hairless boy i reserved, and somebody (a rat person, but not a rat person from here) said that she thinks it's "sad" to breed hairless.

i don't understand and i'm all disheartened.

the life of your average hairless rat is not any less healthy and happy than your average haired rat is it? they're not sickly or weak are they? i know a lot of people here have hairless rats, and i have been wanting one since i found out about them.

does anybody have any thoughts and opinions on this? i just can't seem to let it go.

[Suebee]

I don't know about it being "wrong," but you do need to know what you are doing, for health reasons. Some female hairless (I always forget which... true hairless or double rex) have trouble lactating.

[Kristen]

Not quite sure if this is it, but is the hairless gene a mutation? If it is, maybe they have the idea that it's a bad mutation. I'm probably wrong though...

[DesertSands]

I think it depends on the rats themselves. If they're from good, lactating bloodlines, and you're breeding to improve on the breed, then I don't see anything wrong with it. In fact, I ADORE my hairless rats!
The lactating problem is the only "natural" problem that hairless rats have, other then a rare case of eye irritation that I've heard people talk about but never seen for myself. Other then that, they're just as healthy as normal rats.

Most breeders that raise hairless will only breed from a female who's mother was able to lactate and care for her own litter. That way they are always promoting better health and maternal ability.
Of course, unless you plan to breed your hairless, you really don't need to worry about any of that. Caring for a hairless rat is pretty much the same as caring for a furry baby.  

Bad breeding can cause health problems in ANY line.
I knew of a hairless breeder that didn't screen out parents that had tumors in their background, and soon the babies had a higher frequency of tumors.

There's also a breeder that lives near me that breeds solely for feeders. Her hairless lines have hereditary weaknesses like nothing I've ever seen before! Starting at six weeks you'll start seeing white pinpricks in their eyes. These get larger and larger, until by eight weeks or so both eyes are almost entirely white. Then the rats start developing "the shakes". It's the most horrible thing I've ever seen! They're like epileptic attacks, and they soon become so frequent and so severe that the rat can barely stand, eat or drink. With all the stress, their noses and eyes weep so much they're faces are almost permanently red. Death is usually around ten or twelve weeks.

I honestly believe that breeding rats with unknown backgrounds is murderous. You need to know what they're going to pass on to their babies, or you could be sentencing those babies to a horrible life and possibly an early grave.

Ack! Sorry for all the rambling!

Don't be afraid to own a hairless. They're absolutely wonderful rats! I love them with all my heart! They're just as healthy as any other breed, and they feel a lot cuddlier too!  
I think you'll find that they're just as healthy and happy as any of your other rats. Don't let them tell you otherwise.

[Benisato1084]

I  have one hairless rat, and I do believe that it is a gene mutation.  My hairless has other mutations, too.  He has no whiskers, he is blind in one eye, and has "spastic movements".  He is also the cutest little thing I've seen.  Breeding hairless rats isn't "wrong", extra considerations must be taken, however, such as keeping them warm, but that problem doesn't arise until the winter months.  It is also better to house them with other rats for warmth also...Since they do not have hair, their metabolism is higher because they used the extra energy for warmth, so make sure they eat well, too!

[Joe]

   Hairless, like Manx, is a mutation that's been promoted, I do believe.
  As far as whether it's wrong or not...here's my theory on it. If hairless are bred, make sure the rittens are getting milk. And here's the fun part. Before breeding hairless, the intentional breeder (whether it's for a rattery or just for the experience of having a litter around) must be prepared with the time and supplies for the possibility of the mother not lactating.
  If that's all in order, I find nothing wrong with it.

[Lee]

I do not think owning one is wrong...I own two...I think breeding them andnot understanding them completly can be bad.
 I've known breeders who've decided "well hairless are 'In'" and they start to breed.
 There are a lot of hairless does out there that don't lactate, and I don't really think that line should keep going...it's hard on EVERYONE when the mommy can't feed the rittens..
  Mom gets upset, you get upset...
 Also another thing is some breeders (I've only read about this...but still...i really don't agree) will breed a furry doe at the same time as a known-non lactating female...kill the furry mom's babies and give her the hairless babies...I don't like THAT aspect. Doing that doesn't help anything..and it doesn't produce lactating babies.
 But hairless do make GREAT pets...and I don't mean to dissaude you but really do make sure you're getting your hairless (along with other babies..)from a good breeder that doesn't inbreed them to death.
  The one rescue I have has a lot of health problems..some are genetic...some are from her last home which was abusive..Not that I don't love her...but I don't like being bit...and the vet bills get a bit annoying.
  On the otherhand "Quit" my dumbo hairless was bought from a great breeder here on Vancouver island...and she's the bounciest, funniest thing i've ever owned.
-Lee
PS. I hope I didn't scare anyone away from hairless with that, and I hope someof it made sence.

[Raven Paw]

Not quite sure if this is it, but is the hairless gene a mutation? If it is, maybe they have the idea that it's a bad mutation. I'm probably wrong though...

All the different varieties of domestic rats we have are mutations.  In the wild there are not naturally blue rats, or rexes, hairless, etc.  Mutation is a natural thing that happens and it is not bad.  In nature, if a mutation occurs that helps the animal survive better, though natural selection that mutation may become a permanent trait in the species.  If it's harmful to the animal, it will most likely die and not pass on that trait.  In captivity, humans take over natural selection and promote mutations that we like.  That's how we get huge great Danes, tiny Chihuahuas, and cute rex rats.  Saying that hairless rats are wrong just because it's a mutation would also mean that the dumbos and blues that everyone loves are also wrong.  So, I don't see anything wrong with selectively breeding mutations.  However, if a mutation is harmful to the animal it should then breeding it would be wrong.  In the wild, a hairless rat probably wouldn't do too well, it wouldn't have fur to protect it from cold or injuries.  But it captivity we can take steps to protect these animals and so they can have a full, happy life.

I don't know much about hairless rats, but it seems that the gene doesn't cause problems, other that the problem with females lactating, and that can be helped by further selective breeding.  So, I don't think that breeding hairless rats is wrong.

[Elaken]

The vet I went to, that I did not like, told me hairless have a weaker immune system, which is one reason they are used in labs...not sure if that is true or not.

Also, I could be completly wrong in this, but what I learned in bio is that things like hairless, dumbos, blues, ie aren't mutation, just forced natural selection.  Mutations are first of all rare, because for them to appear in an animal and affect a change it needs to occurr in the sperm, or egg.  (Mutuations happen all the time in creatures already born, but the body kills off hte mutated cell).  Also most mutations are deadly.  I just can't believe so many mutuations happened as to create all the different colors of rats.  I think it is just selective breeding, not a mutation.  I mean blue really isn't that much of a blue, it was just someoen breeding a bluish rat with a bluish rat until the blue color came to be what it is.

[scout]

Actually, both are right, I think. The original occurrence is a mutation and it can be reproduced. After that, it is selection (but not quite natural) since it's folks breeding for, and thereby reproducing, the mutation. The more popular "mutations" then become frequent, even though the original mutation may have only happened once or twice.

[Marybelle]

The vet I went to, that I did not like, told me hairless have a weaker immune system, which is one reason they are used in labs...not sure if that is true or not.

That's funny.  My hairless was our healthiest rat.  He never had respiratory problems, and the only eye sensitivity he had was if we took too long to clean the cage.  He'd be the first to let us know with porphyrin around the eyes.  Of course, it could just be that he was very good at hiding it.

[HappyTailsRattery]

I have 6 hairless rats, 3 are does.  They are relativly healthy, they have also never been bred.  Our experience here as been those does that could lactate, and didnt eat their young, developed allergies, and had other problems.  I now breed hairless bucks to furred does that carry the hairless gene.  Safer that way, in my opinion.

[Calico]

ALL of the pretty colors we see in the fancy are gene mutations.   Dumbo ears are a gene mutation.   ANYTHING other than a plain old standard-fur standard-ear rat is a mutation.

I don't understand how someone could say it's "sad" to breed hairless rats.   That would be like saying it's sad to breed dumbo or rex rats.   It just sounds to me the person who posted either doesn't understand the first thing about rat genetics and/or they just plain don't like hairless and rationalize their dislike by saying it's "wrong."

The only time it's wrong to breed a kind of rat is when breeding that animal also perpetuates very serious genetic illnesses or perpetuates a physical mutation so severe the animal can't walk or is in pain.

I own and breed hairless rats.  They're healthy and wonderful critters!  I also swear there is a temperament different between the average hairless and the average haired.  I have never heard of a hairless rat turning mean or agressive whereas it does happen on occasion to haired rats.  

To anyone who's interested:  I believe the lactation problems in hairless may happen but I believe it's rare.  I have never needed to handfeed or foster off babies of a hairless mom.

-Calico

[Marianne]

I have two beautiful hairless dumbo girls that I am going to breed. They come from a line that lactates. I have heard that some people think that the hairless mothers also do not seem to have the same mothering instinct as their haired counterparts. I am going to breed one in a few weeks, and yes, I will breed an awesome haired doe at the same time. If, and I doubt it will happen, the hairless does not lactate or does not care properly for her little ones they will be given to my Breezie. No I am not going to KILL her babies. She is an awesome mother rat, and I am sure that there are plenty of other mommy rats out there just as great as she is. She has helped out twice already caring for litters that were not hers, one at the same time she had her own babies.

I think that no matter what you breed first you need to have all the information out there. Research the genetics, the health risks and everything you can. Knowledge is the key. I have heard more horro tales in the breeding of the tailess rat...I am getting some carriers and a tailess buck in July to start working on a tailess line. Dont you think a tailess, hairless dumbo would be cute?

[Joe]

   Hehe...it's a mouth-full being technical, though. It'd be a Sphynx, Manx dumbo. I want one!
  Hmm...interesting thought here...since hairless have to be kept in slightly warmer conditions, and tailess in slightly cooler conditions, would breeding both into a line negate these?

[Marianne]

Hmm, never thought of that one. I will have to ask one of the ladies I am getting my tailess and carriers from, as she has some "Sphynx, Manx dumbo" already. I bet they are just sooo cute. I know that people leave my home with a changed attitude about sphynx (due to my cute little dumbo hairless girls I have.) I will keep everyone up to date when I start breeding and such.

[Joe]

   Well crap...where are you? I'm gonna have to come get one now.

[Yresim]

I have never heard of a hairless rat turning mean or agressive whereas it does happen on occasion to haired rats.

I think this just has to do with the way they are raised.

Most (not all, but most) hairless rats are bred by responsible breeders who socialize the babies.  Standard-hair rats are the ones that are most likely to be bred by backyard & feeder breeders.  The average hairless rat is bred by a breeder & socialized, while the average standard-hair rat is either semi-socialized or not socialized at all.  Thus, the "average" hairless rat is friendlier than the "average" standard-hair rat.

Just for the record, I have only been bitten (really bitten hard) by a standard-hair rat once, and that was my Ennoia when she was very sick with an abcess in her lung, just a week or so ago!

I have found aggressive hairless rats.  The only hairless rats I ever saw were in two side-by-side small cages at a pet shop.  They were very big, and very mean (they would attack anything that came near their cage, including each other).  

While I love hairless, I would definitely not say that they have better temperments.  Just that they tend to be more socialized.

[Yresim]

Oregon is not THAT far away, I tell myself.  It could be done.  Yea....

If you breed any Sphynx, Manx dumbo girls, please let me know.  I would definitely make the trip to Oregon for a breeder-quality Sphynx, Manx dumbo rat.  

Even though it would violate my rule of "rescue rats only".  

[6th Happiness Rodentry]

If I ever had a hairless tailless rat, I'd name it (spl?) ocham's razor. AG

[MalignStar]

This is sad. A petshop near me has been breeding hairless rats for the past couple months now.. maybe since February? Anyways, they made a HUGE breeding project out of it. The 15 year old girls working there had NO clue about breeding rats.. they just threw a hairless male in with a bunch of hairless females and most of the babies died early from poor health. Then, after these people KNEW rats weren't considered pets out here, they tossed the hairless rats in with all the feeders when no one was buying them. I think the breeding was just done out of boredom and no one considered the animals general welfare included in the breeding itself. Now, these morons are attempting to breed rex rats.. with the same outcome as the hairless. Most babies die from poor health and then when they're old enough they're tossed in the feeder tank like the rest. People who breed and contribute to the overpopulation of pets already really piss me off. And they KNOW no one wants these rats they breed!