That would require me being able to post a pic.  
*shakes head and grumbles at technology*

So she'd be basicly this with some dilute hooded genes thrown in the mix:
aa, c^h c^h, pp = Siamese with pink-eyes, looks like off-white with dirty nose, ears, tail! (from rmca.org)
This being a true siamese:
aa, c^h c^h, P- = Siamese. Is darkest with two doses of black-eye, or "PP".

Here's a web page with a bad pic of her: http://www.raffins.com/pipernzada.html  It's the bottom pic. Probably won't help.

Thanks!!!!


**edit**
I just read a post that said siamese start out as champagne and himi starts out as white. She started out as white. Now I'm confused.

OK, now I've got another question. lol... Let's say we had a black rat (aa) and we bred that rat to a blue rat (aa gg). What would their babies look like, and how would you do the Punnett Square without the extra genes on the black rat? Would all of the babies be blue since the black rat doesn't have gg?
Was that confusing? It made sense to me, but sometimes I can't explain things well...

Wow  I am so glad I am not a breeder. 

I know I have two himi's and some very light beige hooded as well as light beige selfs. As for the rest of my white red eyed rats, who knows.

Thanks! I didn't know about the Gg and GG...

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking or not, but... Try doing one gene at a time with the Punnett Square.
    a    a
a  aa  aa
a  aa  aa

All black based...

    g    g
G  Gg  Gg
g   gg  gg

So if the black was Gg, you'd get half blues and half blacks... If the black was GG, you'd get all blacks...

I'm always more than happy to answer questions. You can PM on this forum, or email (sorraiamustang@yahoo.com), which ever is easier.

There is ONE way to know for sure if your black rat is Gg: if it has one blue parent.
Looking back further into the pedigree than the parents will give you clues, but nothing possitive.
Another possible way to tell is a test breeding. If a black rat bred to a blue produces blue (and black), that black rat carries blue. However, this is not fool-proof because a black rat who carries blue CAN produce an all-black litter (but this is less likely when bred to a blue).

If you don't know the rat's pedigree, and you haven't bred it before, you have NO way of knowing.

As far as carried recessives, it gets tricky! Recessives can be carried for a LONG time. Trust me, I've had three surprises show up in one bloodline because of all the carried recessives from generations back. The last generation in this bloodline is a Russian blue baby - and there is NO Russian blue on his father's side for at least three or more generations!

(quote is snipped for simplification)

A Russian blue carrying albino woud actually be aa dd Cc.


I got confused by your chart so I'll just write this out separate.

Your cross would be:

aa DD pp CC x aa dd PP Cc
(you didn't state that the PED carried RB or albino nor did you state that the RB carried PED, so I'm assuming they don't)

You would get a litter of all blacks:
aa x aa = aa = black
DD x dd = Dd = black
PP x pp = Pp = black
CC x Cc = 1CC:1Cc = black

Now, if the PED carried RB and/or albino, and/or the RB carried PED, THEN things would get interesting!

Let me use agouti as an example Jessica :

A/A is referred to as dominant homozygous and would make the rat an Agouti
A/a is heterozygous, this rat carries a "non-agouti" gene but is Agouti in appearance
a/a is a recessive homozygous this rat is non-agouti

Ok, it's late, I'm bored, and I can't sleep, so, lets see if I'm even half close on this...  Genetics interest me, but, there are a lot of things I still don't have a clue about.

Alright, so here are my kids:

Milos:  black berkshire rex; standard ears - a/a H/h Re/re
Aggy:  lilac self; standard ears/coat - a/a d/d m/m
Benji:  black berkshire dumbo; standard coat - a/a du/du H/h
Turin:  blue berkshire dumbo; standard coat - a/a du/du g/g H/h
Pompeii:  beige self; standard ears/coat - a/a r/r
Tuscany:  PEW; standard ears/coat - either a/a (or A/-) c/c, or some weird combination of dilutes
Lina:  himilayan dumbo; standard coat - a/a c/ch du/du

Ok, am I close on ANY of those?  Aggy I'm not sure on for sure.  I wasn't sure whether it would be the D or G locus that would dilute mink to lilac (Lilac IS a diluted mink, right?).  I am assuming the F locus wouldn't be right, since fawn is agouti based?  In either case, he's a dark lilac or light mink; though, his parents are listed as a coffee merle (OSED Shadows) and a silver fawn self stubtail (OSED Cultyapa).  I have a 4 generation pedigree on him, if it helps any.

Now, to make things fun and interesting...  What happens if I bred Turin to Lina? (Obviously, NEVER going to happen - she's getting spayed!)  Are these results close (assuming my genetics were right in the first place - and assuming all unstated genes are homozygous dominant - I only have background on Aggy, nobody else)?

a/a C/c du/du G/g H/H - black self dumbo
a/a C/c du/du G/g H/h - black berkshire dumbo
a/a C/ch du/du G/g H/H - siamese dumbo
a/a C/ch du/du G/g H/h - siamese marked dumbo?

Am I even in the ballpark?  I have no idea how the H locus works (and don't know too much about the C locus either), so I'm probably way off. 



Edit:  Now I'm getting confused...  I'm reading an article that states himilayan can be ch/ch, instead of c/ch?  I thought c/ch was himilayan, while ch/ch was siamese?  Anyway, here's what it says:

"Himalayan rats which are ch ch have red eyes. The body color varies from white in the best specimens, to beige in the darker, Siamese-type rats. The darkest points are always found on these homozygotes, and with careful breeding, the shading can be lost from the body color, leaving just well-defined points. Rats which are ch c never develop points which are as dark and well-defined as those which are ch ch."
http://www.rmca.org/Articles/himalayan.htm

Now, Lina has reasonably dark points, and what I would consider a white body - though it could be a very light creamy color.  Since she's a rescue, there's obviously no knowing exactly what she is anyway.  Since she has dark points, would she more likely be ch/ch, as opposed to c/ch?

Depends. It depends on who's standards (that is, what club) you are following. In AFRMA, a lilac is technically an "off color" mink. Other clubs say that a lilac is a chocolate + blue. Still others say it is a mink + blue.


There's no fawn locus. A fawn is an agoutied RED rat, that is A- rr.


From what you stated about these rats you'll get all black dumbos, some berkshires. Siamese (an himalayan) are recessive. So if bred to a rat that does not carry any of those genes, you'll just get black.