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Goosemoose Pet Portal > Rats Rule! > Rat Care Corner (Moderators: Goosemoose, kmw, Suebee, scout, Marybelle, Dearpie, WS, knuckles, TheChicagoCrew, ratqueen) > Pneumonia and baytril
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Author Topic: Pneumonia and baytril  (Read 1025 times)
wookiemonster
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« on: February 19, 2005, 11:53:36 AM »
Hi.
My rat apparantly has "pneumonia" though he's showing ALL the signs of micro.
I've been given some baytril, but... my lil francis is showing no signs of improvement at all and I don't know what to do.
 I'm really worried about him, the vet says give it a week... but, time is of the essence, he's going downhill fast and "in a week" may just be too late!!
 Does anyone know if I can get any of the other prescribed meds from pharmacy?
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catsgurleygirl
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 12:08:22 PM »
How long have you been using the baytril?
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 09:45:13 PM »
I split this post off from the original topic "baytril and doxy" as it really needs to be addressed individually.

If you rat has pneumonia, he needs more than baytril.  I'd ask the vet to add amoxy.  That's the drug of choice from my vet, or baytril and clavamox.   You also need to go with a full 21 day round of the antibiotics.
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wookiemonster
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2005, 08:07:27 AM »
He got a shot of baytril on Wednesday, since then, we've been giving him 0.2ml of baytril every day.
 I know it's only been a short period of time, but I went to go and check on him this morning, and he just keeps getting worse   Cry
 I'm gonna make him another app at the vets tomorrow morning, and hopefully get him something else prescribed... grrr...
 The only thing is, I'm positive it's got micro, because of the fact he's totally caved in at his sides, runny nose, runny eyes, messy fur, I don't even know if he'll make it through tonight if I'm honest.
 It just totally frickin' sucks.
 help
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2005, 12:20:49 PM »
Our boy Dos recently had pneumonia and we almost lost him.  The Baytril didn't seem to help, so we switched to Doxycycline and he is now doing much better.  Other things that helped him were having a humidifier in the room, keeping the air moving with a fan, keeping the room warm, phenylephrine hydrochloride nose drops (brand name is "Little Noses" can be bought at places like WalGreens or Wal-Mart, but I'm not sure about in the UK), and lots of extra nutritious foods.  For a while he was pretty much living on Nutri-Cal, a high-calorie supplement marketed for dogs and cats, and various babyfoods that were high in calories.  I also made him a rice buddy.  You take a clean sock, fill it up with rice and tie the end shut.  Then, you microwave it for about a minute and a half.  They will cuddle up to it when they're cold.  Another problem we ran into was that he wasn't drinking very much, and so was very dehydrated.  If your boy is dehydrated, too, you might talk to the vet about subcutaneous fluids.

Also, when you say, "micro" you mean "myco", right?  Mycoplasma?  Good luck, and I hope he makes it.  Give him lots of extra scritches.   Heart
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2005, 03:20:45 PM »
Quote from: Dearpie on February 19, 2005, 09:45:13 PM
If you rat has pneumonia, he needs more than baytril.  I'd ask the vet to add amoxy.  That's the drug of choice from my vet, or baytril and clavamox.   You also need to go with a full 21 day round of the antibiotics.

Dearpie is right. My boys are on Baytril and Clavamox for their pnemonia.
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wookiemonster
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2005, 03:37:29 PM »
Hey, thanks for the advice!  Smiley
I've been on so many rat sites for "home meds" now just trying to get some ideas...
 I've put lots of hot water mixed with lemon/cough mixture round the room just to get some water vapour and steam going around and that seemed to perk him up a little.
I may put him in the bathroom in a minute and get the shower going for some extra steam.
 Yea, he wouldn't touch his water bottle which was a pain, so, I purchased some ribena a short while ago and he loves it!!
 I know it's not ideal, but, sugary fluid is better than no fluid at all, he had almost half a carton which just goes to show how thirsty he was.
 I'll try him again with some more before I go to bed.
 I have kept windows open slightly to air the room and moved the cage nearer to the radiator so, hopefully this may help (?)
 It's pretty touch and go at the moment, I mean, sometimes he looks ok- breathing always a problem but, still perky.
 I'm moving them into the living room as we speak as it's the warmest room in the house.
 Again, thanks loads for the advice from everyone, he's off to the vets tomorrow so I'll make a note of ALL the recommended meds.
 I'll keep ya posted.   Smiley
Wook.
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2005, 10:47:57 PM »
I agree with what others have said...a combination of drugs is best for pneumonia. I have had good experience with chloramphenicol and baytril in combination, and doxycycline and baytril in combination also often work well. If it's a severe case of pneumonia, you might need to have your rat stay at the vet's office in an oxygen tank, or get home nebulization treatments. Aggressive treatment is definitely what's needed in pneumonia cases, so it's a good thing that you're being attentive and trying to make sure that your rat is getting the right kind of treatment. I hope your little one starts to feel better soon.
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2005, 04:31:27 AM »
My boys just recently got over a bout of pneumonia.  My Darren wasn't getting any better.....looked the way you described your rat.  Took him to a different vet and got a higher strength Baytril and added Panmycin.  Also we started giving twice a day instead of once.  Within two days Darren was back to his old self again.  We are also currently treating my girls with the same combo and they are doing very well.
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wookiemonster
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2005, 04:37:48 AM »
I'll take that into consideration, thanks.
 We're off to the vets in about an hour and a half so, I'll mention what other rat owners have advised etc, and hopefully she'll listen to me!
 He's looking... hmm, ok yet not.
 More lively than last night, yet, walking as if he's drunk (!?) and last night for the first time, a clicking noise with his breathing...  Embarrassed
 But, I think the fluids helped, and... hopefully a combination of meds will finally kick this stupid illness!! Grrrrr... makes me mad it does!!
Wook.
Oh... thanks to catsgurleygirl for the advice yesterday  Smiley
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wookiemonster
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2005, 06:45:04 AM »
Why I officially hate vets...
 So... after telling him the baytril is doing NOTHING and continuing to tell him that other people have had success with baytril AND so and so (i.e:combination drug)
 He's given me yet another lot of baytril and a shot of doxy something or other... (not cyclene) an "anti-inflamitory."
 "My my," He says, "He IS in a bad way isn't he?"
 Then why give him yet another lot of baytril which is obviously having NO effect!?!?!?!?!?
 I'm so pissed off... people are so fucking stupid...
 I even asked what the point was as it's obviously not helping.
Apparantly it's the most effective drug they have...
 I'm so upset... If Francis dies... well, no prizes for guessing who's car is gonna get egged this evening...
Angry-Wook. Angry
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RKEM
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2005, 09:01:39 AM »
I would switch vet
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2005, 09:06:18 AM »
Definitely time for a new vet.
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Suebee
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2005, 09:27:49 AM »
You do not have time to screw around with this vet. You need to get him to someone who understands rats.
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wookiemonster
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2005, 05:06:04 PM »
Update...
It's been approximately 11 hours since Francis had his injection... something "anti-inflamitory" (my sister has the details.)
 And he's finally perked up.
 My shopping list consisted of:
Baby food, chocolate soya milk, Sachets of oatsosimple, Rosemary oil and some rice to make a hot bean bag incase he gets cold.
 Believe me I've done everything and anything, and it finally seems to be paying off.
 He's still pretty drousy but, he hasn't looked this perky since before the illness so I'm really happy! And I can't tell you how relieved...
 Still, can't let my guard down just yet.
 Once the jab wears off the baytril still may have no effect!!
 But we shall see how it goes...
Wook.
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2005, 05:11:06 PM »
I hope your rat has taken a turn for the better, but regardless you need to find a good vet for this issue or future health issues.

This forum has a vet recommendation thread:
http://www.goosemoose.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=70&?topic=19879.0
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2005, 07:21:34 PM »
Hiya Wook,

I would go out and get some Original Complan and/or some Complan with Oats - they have everything in them and my rats have always drunk/eaten them regardless of how sick they were. You can get them in Boots or Superdrug. If you're tight for money go with the Complan with Oats - you can always make it up so it's really runny.

Where are you in the UK, roughly? If you post at Fancy Rats UK there will be someone who will be able help you find a new vet in your area.

Did you print out the RMCA Drug Chart? I've found that alot of vets are just hesitant to give anything other than a low dose of Baytril since almost all drugs here in the UK are not licenced for rats. Show the vet the drug chart, explain that it's based on many years of experience of vets and rat owners. It may help your case.

How much does Francis weigh? Unless he's a small ratty 0.2ml of Baytril a day seems very low...

I've sent you a pm.

Beth (London)
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2005, 07:41:43 PM »
How bad is his pneumonia?  If he's really having trouble breathing, he should be at the vets on oxygen.  If you can't find a better vet, and your current one doesn't want to just try other meds, perhaps he can take a culture so that he knows what he's dealing with?  My Fizzgig had very severe pneumonia, and we started treatment with a baytril/doxy culture.  It didn't help, and he got so bad, he was on oxygen for 3 days.  We switched took a culture, and switched him to zithromax since the baytril/doxy was having no affect.  When we got the culture results, we found out that he had pseudomonas aeruginosa.  It was resistant to the antibiotics he had been on.  So, when we switched to an appropriate antibiotic (I forget what it was, it was approved for use in rats, but my vet wanted to try it anyway), and he improved so much.  We went from discussing the possibility of putting him to sleep, to a rat with energy, breathing easy for the first time in a loooong time.  It took a long time to clear it completely, but it was worth it.

Call around and try to find a better vet.  Every vet I've ever gone to has switched antibiotics if after 3 days there's no improvement.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that your rattie improves!
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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2005, 11:41:04 AM »
Greetings all...
 Last night Francis changed drastically.
 No problems breathing, no lethargy, no runny nose/eyes, I couldn't believe it!
 I went in there first thing this morning and who happens to be waiting for me with baited breath?
 The lil' cherub himself!!
 Tearing up paper and fighting with his brother, I think he's making up for lost time.
 I know I can't relax too much, but it looks like the baytril's finally kicked in!
 (Either that or the jab.)
 He's still pretty caved in on his sides but, given time I'm hoping he'll be back to his normal self, but if you saw him now, you wouldn't guess there was anything wrong with him.
 I'm gonna change vet of course.
 It's only recently I've started keeping rats again and since then, I've moved so *shrugs* I guess it's time to do a bit of research into vets who UNDERSTAND rats and rodents and that are in my area.
 I still can't quite believe Francis is looking so well!
 I'm not the most positive person in the world and at times it just looked as if this was it, but, I guess cats ain't the only animals with nine lives!
Thanks for the links Beth, that should get me started on looking for a new vet.
 If anything changes- I'll keep you posted. (again!)
Wook.
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catsgurleygirl
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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2005, 12:26:37 PM »
THAT'S WONDERFUL NEWS!!!!  YEA!!!!
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2005, 07:02:45 AM »
That's great news, but he could go down as quickly again if you don't get the proper meds into him.  So resource a new vet as soon as you can, and get him seen and onto the necessary meds asap.

I don't want to be Mrs Negative, but we've also been through pneumonia with a useless vet, and our girl ended up on permanent antibiotics until she died of heart failure at the age of 21 months, brought on by the damage done to her system from not being treated properly quickly enough - it involved a vet change.

Keep up your fantastic nursing and caring which will be making a big difference - you're doing great, just go that step further sooner rather than later.

Big scritches to Francis and a big pat on the back to you  Grin

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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2005, 01:29:36 PM »
Greetings...
 Alas, changing vet is of upmost importance for future problems... (Touch wood there will be none!)
 As it stands... a higher dosage of baytril as well as that jab has done the job.
 I'll carry on with the baytril for at least another week and a bit just to make sure he's fully recovered.
 IF ANYONE CAN RECOMMEND A DECENT VET IN THE HORSHAM/CRAWLEY/WEST SUSSEX AREA (within reason) PLEEEEEAAASSSEEEEE LEMME KNOW!
 Owwwch.... You just know Francis is back to his normal self when he starts nibbling your hair...
Wook.
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2005, 05:03:07 AM »
doxycycline
A broad-spectrum antibiotic of the tetracycline group.

I thought maybe this might be what your vet was saying and if a rat has myco as bad as what you mentioned then Baytril should be used in combination with the Doxycycline and given twice daily.
Maybe this vet doesn't exactly have the best bed side manner but he did say truthfully Your rat was in bad shape.
  A lot of vets would have taken a look and said oh bad shape put the rat down but sounds to me like your vet acted fast and helped quickly to bring  Francis back as soon as he heard and had the chance.
  Your smart reaction was taken by you getting back fast and said it is not enough and isn't working.
   He then tried something else which could have been a form of doxycycline combined with the Baytril. Good for you!
   Either way he may have saved him and I personally would give that vet another try. I just was browsing tonight and glad your Francis is doing so much better and he certainly sounded very bad.
   Don't forget if in so many days if a drug doesn't work do call any vet back  and could well pay off for a sick rat.
Hope Francis continues to get better.  :-D
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2005, 06:35:30 AM »
It is probably now a good idea to get some plain yogurt into him if he will take it!

Glad he is doing better!
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2005, 09:19:28 AM »
Hmm... you don't happen to BE that vet do you?   Tongue
 *shrugs* Francis wasn't bad enough to need putting down, he wasn't in severe pain or on the brink of death- it was solely due to the fact the baytril wasn't doing anything.
 So... that said, I don't think other vets would have recommended he was put down, he was merely stating the obvious, because Francis was... "In a bad way," but not to the extent he needed anything but a different med.
 And I did have to put my foot down too!
 There may not be time for second chances for my rats in the future, and I don't have time to 'try that vet again' if I'm not 100% happy in the first place.
 It's just not worth it.
 Wook.
Oh... and yes he's got some soya yoghurt (cuz he can't take dairy with his meds)... not to mention pasta, baby food pasta sauce and garlic... (I hear that's good for the immune system   Blue Dumbo Smile )
 But he better not get used to it... this is merely to aid his recovery!
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2005, 04:42:05 PM »
I am happy to hear your rat made it and a lot of people don't realize how good doxycycline is, even used alone, and it works very well on resiratory problems.

  I think you misunderstood me and I was praising you for quick thinking, putting your foot down too and getting Doxycycline "my choice as well"  to save your sweetie. 

  I certa