October 08, 2008, 01:43:04 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Attention Chat Room Users: Please log out of the room if you are going to be away from your keyboard for over an hour. Thank you.
 
   Home   Help Search Member Map Chat Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Minor Stroke??  (Read 1137 times)
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« on: March 02, 2006, 07:48:09 AM »

Hi,
One of my boys seemed to have some kind of minor stroke this morning. He was fine first thing, jumped up to the cage door to greet me for his morning raisin treat as usual, but then when I came back to say goodbye before leaving for work, he just didn't look right. I opened the cage door and he would usually come running for a cuddle, but instead he seemed to really struggle to make it over to the cage door. I picked him up and he seemed really confused, then he started shaking and nipping at my fingers. He then bit me quite hard - something he never usually does so I put him back in the cage and he just kind of flopped. He seemed to be having trouble with his legs - first the back, then the front, then they seemed better, but still not quite right.
I took him out of the big cage with the other boys and put him in a single level cage with lots of food, water and bedding. He seemed really confused and kind of limp - he usually feels really muscular and chunky. As soon as he was in the smaller cage he began eating straight away he was up on his back legs holding food as normal. He continued to eat until I left for work about 5 minutes later.
I'm thinking that because he was so keen to eat and that he was able to eat without any help is a good sign? Rats I've had in the past who have had strokes just haven't been interested in food, so I'm hoping this might have been a minor stroke, and that he'll recover??
If there's no improvement I'll take him to the vets tonight when I get home from work, they're really good with last minute emergency appointments which is great and they're brilliant with ratties.
I just wondered if anybody else had experienced anything like this, and what the outcome was?
I'll be glad for any advice or comments.
Thanks.
Logged
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2006, 08:27:24 AM »

Could it have been a seizure instead?  Strokes do recover quickly but with steroid help, etc.  Seizures do still mean an underlying problem tho.   Sad
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2006, 08:52:09 AM »

I hadn't thought about the possibility of it being a seizure, I've never had that happen to a rattie before.......
Are seizure's something that are likely to become a regular occurence?
Do you know if seizure's are something that can be controlled with regular medication if it is likely to happen again?He's not the youngest of ratties - nearly 2, which is why my first thought was that he'd had a minor stroke.
I think I will take him to the vets tonight to get him checked out, can't hurt can it.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Logged
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2006, 11:41:38 AM »

This is from Ratguide.com

http://ratguide.com/health/neurological/seizures.php

I had a 28 month girl who was really healthy until she had a stroke, which I treated with Prednisone.  Unfortunately while I was weaning her off of the Pred she started having seizures, and once they became too frequent I took her in to be PTS.  But this doesn't mean that is what is happening to your boy.

Let us know what the vet says.  Sorry about your old guy.   Sad
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 03:16:25 AM »

Thanks for the link - that was really useful, after reading that I think it must have been a seizure.
I couldn't get a vets appointment last night, but do have one today.
When I got home last night, he seemed to have perked up more and was continuing to eat and drink as normal. He had more colour too, does it seem odd to say that he looked pale before?
He was moving around the cage, but did seem to be having trouble with his back legs, although he was scratching with them and standing up on them to a certain extent as normal. He doesn't seem to have lost all control, just some.
He certainly hasn't lost any appetite, so that's a good sign I'm sure.
Well, vets tonight and we'll see where we are.
Thanks for the kind wishes.
Logged
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 09:12:04 AM »

Please let me know what the vet says and how your old man is doing.  It sounds pretty hopeful from his behaviour.  Smiley

Shelagh
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack
Kendra
Posts Too Much!
*****
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 4618
Product Reviews: 1



« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2006, 01:28:58 PM »

I had a girl rat, Seraphim, who had seizures all her life.  They were very infrequent until she was about 3 years old.  There are some medications you can try for seizures, but, honestly, they don't seem to work very well, and you often have to keep increasing the dose as they become accustomed to it.  Seraphim lived a good life with us despite her seizures.  It sounds a lot like what you described, except that maybe you missed the convulsions.  Those are very scary if you ever see them.  However, you must try to push down your natural urge to grab your boy up immediately.  At least with Seraphim, she was very confused and afraid right after a seizure and would bite if you picked her up right after one.  It never took her long to recover from one and they did no lasting damage.  It wasn't even the seizures alone that finally made us decide to help her along to the Bridge, it was the cancer.  I hope he's doing well!
Logged

Raisu, Lennie and George
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2006, 04:36:43 AM »

Well we took Haw Haw to the vets on Friday afternoon. The vet seemed in agreement that it must have been some kind of seizure or stroke and prescribed an anti inflamatory to reduce any swelling in the brain - he suggested that ratties back legs might not have been working as messages might not be able to make it from his brain to his back legs if there was a swelling.

We brought him home, settled him back into his cage and let him relax. He was acting perfectly normally for the rest of Friday and all day Saturday - eating, drinking and grooming. Lots of sleeping too of course!

Since Saturday night things really seem to have got worse, although I must admit I've never come accross a rattie quite so keen to take medicine, but it just doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Saturday night was just awful, he kept having seizures/fits and seemed to be getting really distressed. I realise now that the best thing would have been to not pick him up and try and comfort him, this really just made things worse - he got more distressed and so did I. It was 2am before he settled - this was after several fits, I lost count how many. It's true that he recovered very quickly in between them and was eating, drinking and even grooming as usual - as if nothing had happened at all. I really didn't know what was happening, or what to do for the best. It was the worst I have ever seen a rattie.

Sunday morning he was back to the way he had been since the original seizure on Thursday morning, if I hadn't stayed up with him and seen what he'd been through on Saturday night I'd be none the wiser that anything had happened at all.

He was OK again all day Sunday just like Saturday during the day, but Sunday night he started having more seizures and they were much worse than before. I resisted the temptation to pick him up as I had done before and just let him know that I was there - he was much less distressed and coped with everything much better. Just like Saturday night he continued to have several seizures and recover quickly inbetween but they were much worse. As the evening went on I realised he had infact gone blind as a result of the seizures, first one eye then at some point later the other. Throughout all of this he continued to eat, drink and groom as he would have done on a regular evening, as if he was fine, although with limited movement in his back legs it was more of a struggle for him of course, but he was just getting on with it.

After a while when it seemed to have calmed down, I laid him on my lap, he just kind of flopped there and fell asleep. I felt sure it wouldn't be long before he went and I stroked him and told him how much I loved him. He just continued to sleep though and every so often had a quick scratch or wash - just as if nothing was wrong!

After a while we put him back in his cage, he went straight to his food ate for a while, had a drink and then went back to sleep.

This morning again if I hadn't been with him last night I'd be none the wiser that he'd had any more seizures. Apart from the fact that he's now blind and continues to have problems with his back legs.

I really don't know what to do for the best now. If he wasn't eating, drinking and grooming as per usual (although struggling with his balance due to the back legs of course) I'd have no doubts about helping him on his way, but as it is now he doesn't seem to want to give up, so is it fair for me to?

Any advice on this situation would be so gratefully appreciated as I'm at a loss for what to do for the best.
Logged
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2006, 06:09:42 AM »

Oh no I am sorry!   Cry  I had high hopes for his recovery.

If he was my munchkin I would let him tell me when he's had enough.  I think the seizures are more frightening then painful.  He's eating, grooming and very happy to be with you, so he's definitely not ready to go yet.  Its hard to watch and know you can't do a single thing, but they sound like they are really short in duration.
My girlie was having them in more and more frequent intervals, and she never recovered well in between.  I had her to pts when she seemed very unhappy, very disinterested in everything and was never going to improve.  It was still very very hard to do tho.   Sad

I wish I could help more. Hang in there with Haw Haw.
Shelagh
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack
Kendra
Posts Too Much!
*****
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 4618
Product Reviews: 1



« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2006, 03:52:53 PM »

I'm so sorry, Burton.  Sad  The blindness definitely signals severe neurological impairment.  Poor Haw Haw.  He'll let you know when it is time to let him go.  Until then, loads of scritches and yummy foods for him.
Logged

Raisu, Lennie and George
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2006, 03:18:07 AM »

Well, good news today which makes a change!

I got home last night to find that Haw Haw was able to see again!!!

I was so happy for the little chap and he seemed so pleased to be able to see me too!

Also last night there was only one really small seizure shortly after I got home - I think it might have been brought on by the fact that I got so excited when I realised he could see again that I made such a big fuss of him and he got a bit carried away.

He got plenty of gentle love and attention throughout the evening and lots of treats too, but mostly we just let him relax.

He was in a brilliant mood this morning, although still wobbly on his legs, but even they seem to be getting a bit stronger slowly, he ate all his breakfast treats in record time and then settled back down for a morning nap.

Here's hoping the recovery continues. Thanks for all your good wishes and advice so far it really means alot. Heart
Logged
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2006, 06:47:00 AM »

Oh this good news really made my morning!!!  I'm going thru a bit of rat business myself, and this is what I needed to feel better.  So thank you Burton and Haw Haw!

Scritches to you both.   Grin

Shelagh
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack
DolciLady
Posts Too Much!!
Posts Too Much!
*****
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 3172
Product Reviews: 4


Rattie slave and lovin every minute of it!



« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2006, 07:02:57 AM »

Been rooting for you both from the sidelines.  Hope whatever happened goes away and stays away!

Robin
Logged

SugarBaby...my heart rat    The sweetest love I've ever known.

Dearpie
Global Moderator
Posts Too Much!
*****
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 15307
Product Reviews: 0


When you're too open minded, brains fall out!



WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 08:52:32 AM »

Seizures are more frightening than they need to be.  I'm glad he seems to recover quite well after them.  I'd suggest that you remove ALL sugar from his diet and see if that helps with the seizures at all.  It's been known to help in previous cases.

Best of luck!
Logged

Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 09:20:25 AM »

Thanks for the advice.

We have tried as far as possible to remove all sugar from his diet and alongside his regular dried mix we're giving him high protein foods such as egg and meat. We've also been giving him pasta, bread and high vitamin content treats. He doesn't seem to have lost any weight which is good, but I'd like to keep him topped up with nutrients!

He hasn't had any seizures now since Monday night (touch wood) and last night he seemed to really perk up and I'd say was now back to his old cheeky self, apart from the weakness in his back legs of course.

We're going to keep him separated from the other guys until the weekend, and then transform them all to a large single level cage if his progress continues. I feel bad that he's on his own at the moment and I can tell he's missing his pals. I'm keen to get them all back together again and hope that this will ease his frustration/boredom.

Any hints or tips on making the single level cage fun for everyone, but safe for Haw Haw as well would be much appreciated!
Logged
mcb
Full Member
***
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 199
Product Reviews: 0




« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 02:35:56 PM »

I cried when I read about Haw Haw going blind!! And then was so thankful when you mentioned he regained his sight. 
I only pray that improvement will continue for Haw Haw!
I have a single level cage for all of my girls. And to assist in making it enjoyable & fun for all of them I've used any type of small cardboard boxes, (cut out holes here & there) and either attaching perhaps other boxes, (making a tunnel-type of thing), or placing  empty round oatmeal containers about. The small boxed are great because once soiled or chewed beyond recognition I simply replace with whatever is available (& safe). I have a good sized piece of fleeced fabric that just hangs along inside of the pen side (hangs from the top and down to the bottom of pen...as though it were a curtain). Also, cut out some holes here & there for peek-a-boos. They can hide behind it and play about in it....they LOVE that more than anything else, I think. Also have low hanging hammocks & some look-out shelves for a little higher view of things. There's also many pieces of fleece in various sizes laid about...covering their house or whatever they decide it would be best used for. (I've noticed how much they love to tunnel under things). Though my pen is a single level, it is still about 2 feet high...(5 feet long). I've never had the need to even consider any type of multiple level cages due to the size of this pen, (I made it last year), and they absolutely LOVE it!!
Good luck with Haw Haw, Burton. And fingers crossed for a healthy recovery!!!
Mary
Logged

To Err is Human...To have my Rattie's, Divine!
Dearpie
Global Moderator
Posts Too Much!
*****
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 15307
Product Reviews: 0


When you're too open minded, brains fall out!



WWW
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 02:55:08 PM »

Why are you keeping him separated?  I would think that could be a source of stress?
Logged

Kendra
Posts Too Much!
*****
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 4618
Product Reviews: 1



« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2006, 03:42:03 PM »

I'm so glad to hear he's doing better!   Kiss to him!
Logged

Raisu, Lennie and George
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2006, 03:38:23 AM »

Thanks for all the ideas about making the single level cage more fun for my guys - I always had lots of boxes, tunnels and things for them to kick about in the bottom of the big multi level cage, so I'll just transfer everything over and make sure there's lots of things to keep them occupied.

I was worried about how to manage with a hammock, as Haw Haw loved to be in there all the time and survey his kingdom - I couldn't imagine him not having one. I will try rigging up a low level hammock and lots of low level look outs to see how he gets on!

I was keeping him separate to begin with as any kind of stress or excitment seemed to start the seizures again. I wanted him to be able to relax and do things in his own time without cage mates nicking his treats and food and bothering him. I'm keeping them separate now because when he had a visit from Oz on Saturday night, Oz attacked him which concerned me rather a lot! We also tried a visit from his other cage mate Harvey and again Haw Haw ended up getting attacked. Can they really have forgotten each other in under a week?? I don't want to cause him undue stress and am not sure what's going on here - will I have to go through the introducing a new rat routine do you think?
Logged
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2006, 07:11:27 AM »

As a person who has mostly had girls, and I am learning all the intricacies of boy management with my 3 old boy rescues, you probably will have to re-intro after a week long separation.  Just go slowly for Haw Haw's sake.  Keep an eye on him so that he isn't getting unnecessarily stressed.  I understand why you separated them, its a tough call, especially when you are feeling like you are fighting for his life.  Good luck, it should go fine since they got along well before.  Give Haw Haw a cuddle for me.  Do you have a pic of your old boy?

Shelagh
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2006, 04:33:56 AM »

Well I got them all back together again last night without going through the complete re-introduction process. I gave their spare single level cage a complete, thorough clean, cleaned and scrubbed everything that went in there - food bowls, houses, tubes etc, then put them all in the cage together at the same time. After some serious power grooming everybody settled down for the night. Phew!

This morning there were 3 pink noses peeking out of their house and eveything was fine. I'm so happy that they're back together and Haw Haw seemed to feel the same. Now I need to work on making the single level cage fun. Thanks for the tips on that Mary, I'll get cracking this weekend.

So it would seem that it's a happy ending on this one. Thanks for all the support and advice through the past week - It is really appreciated.

I do have a pic of my boys, but can't seem to figure out how to post it on here!
Logged
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2006, 05:56:30 AM »

Burton,
This is actually what taught me...

http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,32046.0

Note that you should resize huge pics before putting it in the gallery, and that there is a commentary in there on how to post pics from your gallery.  The one thing they don't mention is that when you've already copied the pics location from properties (I would open a separate goosemoose pet portals for this), go back to your post and where you want the pic clik on the lil picture frame (2nd to the left 2nd row) above, then hit paste or Ctrl-V to paste the image location....voila!!  If some of this doesn't make sense I can go over it with you later.

I'm so happy the boys are all back together...love happy endings!  I am off to the vet with a sick (and injured) old rescue boy of mine...wish me luck.  Undecided
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack
Burton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21
Product Reviews: 0



« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2006, 06:12:24 AM »

Thanks for the link!

Here they are - my beautiful boys! Left to right - Oz, Haw Haw, Harvey. Such a cute pic. I love it.

Hope everything goes OK at the vets with you today. I'll be sending out positive thoughts so good luck.

Logged
Kendra
Posts Too Much!
*****
United States
Offline Offline

Posts: 4618
Product Reviews: 1



« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2006, 07:20:00 AM »

They're darling boys.  Smiley  Haw Haw in particular has a very sweet face.
Logged

Raisu, Lennie and George
lilspaz68
Posts Too Much!
*****
Canada
Offline Offline

Posts: 8171
Product Reviews: 1


Would you like to take me home?



« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2006, 12:29:41 PM »

thanks anyway Burton, I had a feeling it wasn't going to be good and my instincts were right.  He won't be suffering anymore so that is a good thing.  He made it to 32 months (6 months living with me) so he had a full life.

Your boys look so happy together, I am soo pleased everything is a Happy Ending for you and your little clan.   Grin

Take care.
Logged

To the World you are just one person, to a rat you are the World
- anonymous -

The Rat Shack