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Author Topic: Baby orphans... PICS *four have passed away*  (Read 2716 times)
liza
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« on: August 26, 2006, 02:17:02 PM »

My colleague just called me.
He captured a rat and realeased it 20 miles away from here, he had her in a cage with paper and everything and the rat nested overnight... they drove her out to Alpine from downtown San Diego and opened the cage and shooed her out. She was hesitant to leave, but she did leave - and left four babies behind, too. She gave birth overnight. That's what my colleague told me.
He called me in panick, they are out there with the baby nest in the car, momma rat is gone.
Now he is driving them to us. They said they had no idea she had the babies and the babies are eeping.
What am I going to do now?
I have baby soy here, my husband is reading up on Debbie D.'s site about wild orphans.
I doubt they have a chance to survive, no clue.
Any help is appreciated.
We have droppers here and baby soy formula.
Oh man... what am I going to do?

 Worry
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 10:45:28 PM by liza » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2006, 02:57:31 PM »

 This link has basic info as well as a formula recipe for feeding orphans: 
http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,14583.0

And here’s a Rat Fan Club page with good info:
http://www.ratfanclub.org/orphans.html

Always put the syringe or whatever in the side of their mouth and put in small drops of milk at a time so it doesn't go down their pharynx and into their lungs.  One of the most important things to do is remember to help them eliminate after feeding by taking a damp warm cotton ball and rubbing their bellies and genitals with it.  Baby rodents cannot eliminate by themselves and need this stimulation.  Good luck!

P.S.- Perhaps not the best time to ask this, but how did they not hear the babies eeping when they were shooing out the mother?   icon_scratch
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2006, 03:12:33 PM »

http://www.rathelp.org/FosteringYoung.html

This is a great site.  It is a lot of work and my little orphan didn't survive but hopefully you will have better luck!!
Get ready for a lot of sleepless nights!!

-Jenn
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2006, 03:12:59 PM »

Did the mother run off for sure, or could she be waiting for the nasty humans to leave her brood so she can retrieve them?
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liza
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2006, 03:40:41 PM »

k, they are here.
I've been trying to feed them with baby soy formula and just sent my colleague off to get soy formula without iron. My husband is holding them. They get cold very quickly. They eep and eep, then I feed them a drop each and then they are quiet.
I have no clue why they didn't hear the eeps before. They are not constantly eeping. They opened the container (it's a huge bin! It's four feet long! with tons of holes on the top and with tubes and shredded paper and boxes... ) and shooed the mom out. She was disoriented (of course), ran into one direction, then into the other. They stayed far away from the bin and then she was gone. When they put the bin into the car, they heard the eeps. Momma rat gone. One of the babies had placenta on. When they got here, it was still on and we took it off. Momma rat was in the middle of giving birth.
Sh**! So, there is my husband, on the kitchen floor, with five babies in his hands, keeping them warm. I have a fleece triangular thing but they can't keep themselves warm. I already brought the hot water bottles to the house (into which we are moving in... well, this weekend and next).
Thank you for the links. Will read them now.
I should have read up on this stuff. It just never occured to be that we would ever have pinkies in this home, let alone pinkies without a momma.
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2006, 03:41:53 PM »

Good luck Liza!!
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2006, 03:49:51 PM »

Good luck with those eepers.  I can't imagine how hard it must be!
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liza
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2006, 04:02:51 PM »

k, I read the links. Great, thank you guys!

I wish I didn't have to go to work. What am I going to do during work time?
Oh man...
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2006, 04:22:11 PM »

Just wanted to say best of luck.
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2006, 04:24:32 PM »

k, I read the links. Great, thank you guys!

I wish I didn't have to go to work. What am I going to do during work time?
Oh man...

Can you take them to work with you?  These guys can't go a couple of hours without being fed. 

Liza, I think your best bet would be to find a nursing rat.  At this age, it's highly unlikely they'll survive.  Maybe contact Wee Companions, and see if they have any nursing mothers at the moment.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 04:34:47 PM by Siana » Logged
liza
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2006, 04:39:15 PM »

Already contacted them.
Waiting for them to return my call.
I know their survival chance is very slim. A nursing mom is what we need right now.
Oh man...
I cannot take them to work with me. No animals in the building and it is very cold there, too. My husband can't either.
I will contact my mother-in-law when she comes back into town (tomorrow) and see if she can feed them while I am at work and then I would pick them up. I only work 6 hours a day. I'm pretty sure she would do that.
Unless we find a momma rat... that would be best.

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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2006, 08:44:11 PM »

..........thinking of you................
You can warm some rice in a sock; warm it in the microwave; experiment with how long it takes to get warm but not hot.  It will keep them warm for quite a while.
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2006, 08:55:47 PM »

I got a heating pad. They got cold very quickly this afternoon, so we had it on, but now, they are warm without the heading pad. All comfy... they look very comfortable and are snoozing. All still alive.
My husband is going bananas. He is totally mothering them, checking on them, making sure they are warm, he is reading online all about roof rats, wants to go to the petstore to get a dropper... I am using a syringe and they lap it all up. I read all the links you guys sent me. Baby crash course. Is it ok to feed them baby soy formula and then KMR in the next setting (three hours later)? To switch back and forth?
I have pictures too... need to upload them...
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2006, 08:59:31 PM »

We don't have any nursing mothers right now. The best bet would be if you could find one at one of the pet stores or feeder stores (shudder). I'm sure you won't have any luck with PetCo but you could try Pet Kingdom on Sports Arena Blvd. or Live Cargo, as I know they breed their own feeders and should have a lactating mum. Whether or not they'll sell her and her babies I don't know.

Right now, you're going to have to feed the babies every two hours and help them eliminate too. The soy baby formula is a good option, so is a puppy or kitten milk replacement formula. You might also have to rotate in rehydrating formula as sometimes formula can be hard on their systems.  To keep them warm, I suggest you get a Snuggle Safe (they're about $29) from PetSmart. The Snuggle Safe will stay warm for about 12 hours. If you're planning on trying to release the wild babies, try to have as little contact with them as possible. Handle only for feeding and eliminating so you don't imprint them and make them unreleasable. Wild rats don't survive very well in captivity, they are always very timid. 

Personally, we haven't had any luck hand raising babies. They hang on to about 12 days then start dieing one by one. It's very sad. The only success we've had is finding a surrogate mother to nurse the babies. If you do find a surrogate mum, you'll need to make the new babies smell like her current babies. The way we did that was to get some peed on bedding from the mum's cage and rub it on the babies. Then we took some of her babies and rubbed the in with the new babies. Then put them all back at the same time.

Good luck.
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2006, 09:04:46 PM »

even tho the guy didn't know the mother was giving birth, he still did the right thing. he didn't know what to look for, so it is understandable that he didn't know. and then instead of leaving the babies out in the open and just hoping mom came back, or dumping them somewhere, he came to you for help. they may only have a slim chance, but they have a chance.

this takes you to a whole new level of being a "mama rat".
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2006, 09:07:01 PM »

Wow, what an ordeal. Heart I don't have much info to offer, but all I can say is good luck with them, and post piccies soon. Cheesy
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2006, 09:09:42 PM »

Thank you menagerie, thank you angelratgirl.
We will see what we can do. Here are pics.

Right when they came in the door.



After getting fed.




Happily snoozing away...
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2006, 11:24:24 PM »

I wanted to wish you best of luck and to tell you that we successfully hand raised 7 wild babies out of a litter of 9 some years ago.  I kept a heating pad in a plastic tub with a lid on it (for drafts) and put some fleece baby blankets down to keep their skin from making contact with the pad. 

As far as milk? I used canned goats milk and warmed it up in a microwave then diluted it because it is very rich and hot, with an ice cube.  Microwave warms inside out.  Then I tried to use a dropper, but ended up dipping my pinky finger in and letting them just suck right off my skin.  As they got older I could cup them in my hands and they would lap it out of the folds of my skin in my hand.  Not the most conventional way, but I had a pretty good success rate. 

When they got to be about 3 weeks and veeping not eeeping, I added a little rice baby food in a dish with goats milk and let them step in it and oh what a mess, but oh how cute.  WE kept handling to a minimum.  IF we could get them to suck a finger or drink out of a dish without us? We felt it was better.  And we kept a radio on with classical music for distraction as little nerves were developing.  At 3 1/2 weeks everybody started leaping and hopping and accepting pulverized dog food, then grains like cheerios..at 8 weeks they were so wild when I would walk in the room they would give that WIDE EYES look so we took them to the woods and let them go. 

I wish you the best of luck, don't forget warm cotton balls for the bathroom part...but if you can find a (gulp) brooder and slip the little guys in? They may have a better chance, but I would wonder since they are more aggressive than domestic eepers if they would ever let the domestics feed? Good question for a breeder. 

Best of luck
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2006, 11:44:51 PM »

They may have a better chance, but I would wonder since they are more aggressive than domestic eepers if they would ever let the domestics feed? Good question for a breeder. 

I had a rescue girl, Rosie, who took in three orphaned wild rats and raised them as her own with her own litter of 10. It was amazing the difference in behaviour after they had opened their eyes. The wild babies were terribly afraid of me. They would huddle in the corner and if I was in the room they wouldn't eat. Rosie's babies were really good with the wild babies, if they were scared, Rosie's kids would cover them with their bodies. If I was in still in the room after I'd fed them, Rosie's babies would take food to where the wild babies were huddled. They were all about the same age and their eyes all opened the same day. The wild babies were released in a rural area on the property where they were found.

The agoutis are the wild babies


This how Rosie and her babies would greet me


This is how the wild babies spent most of their time


The most adventurous wild baby of the bunch
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« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2006, 12:50:58 AM »

I have contacted some local breeders.
Oh man, this is really draining. They are eating and pooping and eeping and sleeping and eating and pooping and eeping... it takes us about an hour to get them all fed and get the poop out. I hope to find a nursing mom... we would be willing to take them back in after they are out of the woods, maybe even before they are weaned if that's an issue. Right now, they are just so small and I don't know what to do during the week, when we work.
Thank you guys for all the info!
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« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2006, 01:10:20 AM »

 There is always the option of finding a nursing mama in a pet store, particularly one that sells feeders. HOWEVER, the threat of bringing home a deadly virus or infection has to be taken into consideration.

  Ideally, if you have a quarantine place you could house the nursing mama and babies away from your crew.
 
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2006, 01:19:13 AM »

I can't do that. I cannot risk my crew getting sick. I cannot properly quarantine right now either. And what would I be doing then? With a momma and her babies and these babies?  What did I get into... I can hopefully locate a nursing mom... and relinquish them there.  Undecided

Yes, angelratgirl, I think my colleague was kind enough not to kill the momma and to bring the babies here. He had asked me last week what to do if he caught a rat (he has Havaheart traps) and I told him to release them back into the wild. I had no idea I would be taking in babies...
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2006, 03:02:19 AM »

I have contacted some local breeders.

I can't do that. I cannot risk my crew getting sick. I cannot properly quarantine right now either. And what would I be doing then? With a momma and her babies and these babies?  What did I get into... I can hopefully locate a nursing mom... and relinquish them there.  Undecided

I doubt that a reputable breeder would be willing to risk their colony by taking in wild rats. You've already exposed your house to the wild babies. Would your MIL be willing to have a feeder mum and babies at her house?
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2006, 04:06:50 PM »

How are they doing today, Liza?
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