In case I have to adopt from a pet store...

[JulesMichy]

Okay, first things first, I can see both sides. Kay, when you first posted it seems as though you only wanted to do the bare minimum for your rats. I believe that is what got a lot of feathers ruffled. However, I've seen a real desire to learn and commit from you as well. You do want to do right by your rats, and that's a very important thing that some people here seem to be missing out on.

I think another issue that people have is that you're so young, and not financially secure. You are dependent on your parents, who don't seem exactly enthusiastic about the idea of you getting more rats. Nor do they sound as if they want to be particularly helpful.

I think what you should do is read the forum stickies and visit some of the links. Really do your homework, find out everything you'd need before you even get your rats. A cage, bedding, water bottles, food, toys... Make a list, and include the price. Go through it with your parents. Tell them everything you'd need, and how you plan on paying for it. Show them how serious you are, and how responsible you can be.

As for your cage, I heartily recommend Martin's cages. Martin's has the best cages for a fair price. I went through three different cages, and spent $200 on them combined, before getting my Martin's. I could have saved all of that money and time if I'd just gotten the right cage from the start. The problem with ferret cages is that little girls can slip out of them easily. My third and final cage before I got my Martin's was a large ferret cage from Petsmart. One of my females, Gracie, got her head stuck between the bars one night. It scared both of us half to death, and her whole face swelled up.

For food, almost every pet store sells Mazuri lab blocks. If that's the best you can do, then it's not a bad diet, and it's fairly inexpensive. Or you can order Harlan Teklan in bulk through Kim's Ark.

So, yeah. Do your research, talk it over with your parents, don't just do what you think is "okay" or "enough." Do what's right. Okay?  

Edited to add: I think another problem here is that your story has changed drastically over a very short period of time. First your dad would only let you get one rat, then two but he wouldn't pay for vet care, now he will pay but he'll take it out of your allowance... Things are sort of crazy right now, and it's definitely too hectic of an environment to bring a new pet into. Take some time, chill out, figure out what you need to do and what you CAN do (that is the most important part - if, after you sit down and work everything out, you realize that you can't afford rats right now then you don't HAVE to get them right now).

[MirandaRat]

 Kayratz, when I was fourteen I went and got one rat, Nosi,... I put her in a tiny "rat" cage and fed her the "rat" food mix from the pet store. I loved her to death. She was my life, but I was SO ignorant. I knew nothing of rat care.
 Then I got my second rat, Notti, to live with Nosi. I didn't quarantine because I had no idea what that was. It took me forever to see that Notti was biting Nosi badly. I finally separated them, thank goodness. Then I got 2 baby rats, Jumper and Mysty, who lived with Nosi...for about a week. Nosi died of what I now know is URI. After she died I found rat forums (thank goodness again!!) and since then my rats have had much better lives. I got a job and now have A LOT of money saved up for emergencies. Luckily, my parents will usually pay for the vet. But if they won't, they'll at least drive me and I have the back up money. I pay for bedding, food (now much better than the petstore junk. I make something close to Suebee's mix), toys, etc. I have slowly upgraded cages, now all of my rats have lived in/ or are living in big cages that are suitable for them. I've had/have 10 rats now. Notti is still alive, Jumper and Mysty both died a while back. But over all my rats live longer, healthier lives because of a little research.

 All that to say, please do your research (as it appears you're willing to do) Nosi would have had a longer, healthier and happier life if I would have done my research. Sure, I loved her to pieces, but in the end that wasn't enough. 

 Good luck with learning about and getting your rats. It sounds like you've started researching and preparing for them. I hope it all works out!

[Pascale]

All I have to say is do you research first. Please please please read everything you can find before getting ratkids. Even if it means waiting an other few months before having them, being properly informed and ready is better. I was 14 when I started my addiction to rats but I just got my two first on January 25th of this year and I'll be turning 16 in a couple of months. I diceded that I would be caring for them alone, meaning I pay for everything, from food to bedding and vet bills. It may seem like a lot for a 15 year old, but as I said, I saved up and I always have extra money in bank just in case there's an emergency.

Anyways, I do believe a responsible 14 year can take care of rats, as long ans he/she's done research and is ready for the responsibility of taking care of living things.

[KayRatz]

All I have to say is do you research first. Please please please read everything you can find before getting ratkids. Even if it means waiting an other few months before having them, being properly informed and ready is better. I was 14 when I started my addiction to rats but I just got my two first on January 25th of this year and I'll be turning 16 in a couple of months. I diceded that I would be caring for them alone, meaning I pay for everything, from food to bedding and vet bills. It may seem like a lot for a 15 year old, but as I said, I saved up and I always have extra money in bank just in case there's an emergency.

Anyways, I do believe a responsible 14 year can take care of rats, as long ans he/she's done research and is ready for the responsibility of taking care of living things.

I've definitely done my research and I'm gonna be buying most everything except food and bedding, probably. :3 So it's all good...

[Scubbs]

What cage will you be buying?

[Keltikka]

Hi KayRatz,
First, I want to say thank you for sticking around and trying to get the right info on rat care. You could have left early on in the thread, but trying to work this out does show some maturity and a sense of committment. The people here have a whole lot of experience and knowledge. They're not trying to be mean to you, they are just trying to ensure the health and well being of any pets you may get.

If you have read any threads at all on this board you will have come across GGMR - Gotta Get More Rats. We all experience it. Thats what you have right now and its an "illness" thats awfully hard to resist. I would suggest that you resist for a few months, read ALOT of the information on this site, SAVE up your allowance, take the time to really research all aspects of proper rat ownership, start picking up the things you will need for the cage........

I owned several rats when I was younger, but that didn't mean I was doing correctly. I still have guilt trips about having fed them pet store food, had them in small aquarium tanks, had them on the wrong bedding.....It wasn't  until I was in my 40's and came here and Rat Palace (a similar site) that I truely learned about the proper care of rats.

Kayratz, its really important to be prepared. You wouldn't bring a human baby home just because you were lonely without having a crib for it, diapers, baby food and formula, clothes,toys......and a peditrician would you? Would you really bring a baby home and say I'm sure I can take it to a doctor's if it gets strep throat, or when I get my monthly allowance I'll buy $10 worth of diapers?? I know that sounds like a stupid analogy, but thats how the people here see it.

Don't rush into it - save up money first and take the time to read here. Just go to the threads that contain pictures of cages. You will see tons of pics of HUGE cages. Any tanks you might see will have long/tall screen toppers attatched for  long term living space (other then as temporary hospital tanks).

Everyone is concerned about the future vet bills because they KNOW what you're in for. Rats, especially pet store rats are not healthy for the most part. They ALL carry a respiratory illness called Myco. Most rats have flare ups of Myco that makes it very hard for them to breath. If not properly medicated, Myco will often lead to lung scarring and eventually death. Their breathing gets a rattling, rasping, barking, snotty sound to it. They can stop eating, drinking, playing.... and eventually dehydration and starvation. Depending on the vet, the 2 main meds for this, Baytril & Doxy can run $10 -$200. Thats just for starters. But it just kills us to see our babies struggling for breath, knowing they are in pain. There are people here who will go without their own meds or without food if thats what it takes to have enough money to get the meds for their sick ratties. Thats why when they read that your dad will probably get vet help if you beg enough they get so upset. They are not questioning that you won't care enough for the rats to try and get them vet help, but rather if you will be successful in doing so as it is in the end really up to your dad.

Cancer is another inherent part of rats. Especially girl rats, but boys can get it too. Sometimes its malignant, sometimes benign, but either way, it has to be looked at and treated by a vet so that the rat isn't in pain. I had one hairless girl that underwent 6 seperate lumpectomies that cost me almost TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS by the time she passed away. That was on only 1 rat. I have 25 of them and am usually at the vets once a week for some reason or another. I just took in another girl for a lump removal and it was $170. She has just healed and we have found 2 more that showed up after surgery so she has to go back in for another lumpectomy, probably closer to $250 - $300. We go to the vets so often that she usually gives us awesome deals on the costs that she has say over, so we really only pay a fraction of what it really cost. I know 25 rats are a long way from having the cost of 2 rats, but like I said, just one of my babies cost $2000 alone!

Taking the responsibility of another life that solely depends on you for the very quality of their life means being prepared, really prepared, not just ready to "wing it" if and when the need "might" arise.

Resist GGMR until you get some money to set aside for the neccessities so that you have them BEFORE the rats are there with you. That way you don't have to worry about getting a bigger cage "later", "better" food later, medical care in an extreme  "emergency". Set a date, like right after school lets out for the summer, and save toward that date. Start setting up the cage for them. You can find good deals on cages and supplies by checking lawn sales, the classifieds, thrift stores, sales or auctions the local shelters put on, you just have to take the time to look and prepare.

KayRatz, I really think you can do this if you put a little time and patience into it.
The books you have read in the past aren't really the best resource.They are out of date and don't have the proper information in them. Listen to the people here and similar sites. WE are your best resource. Study and research. If you really are looking for best friends to ease the lonliness, your ratty companions will be better socialized and healthier and stay with you longer if you listen to what we have to say.

Another way to ease the lonliness but be around animals is to volunteer your time at the local shelter/humane society. Your help and concern will be valuable contributions to the staff and animals, you will learn more about their care and you will be in the perfect situation when some ratties are dropped off that really need to be rescued and loved without contributing to the "puppy milling" of pet store animals. Also, by volunteering, it will show your parents that you have committment and dedication, that you really mean to take a vested interest in the care of any future pets. That might go along way in them helping you out financially. You might also be able to get discounts on supplies and vet help through the shelter you work at.

I really hope you have stuck around to read all of this. Just remember, we all had to start at the begining too - it just takes time, patience and willingness. I know its hard at 14 ( I have  15 yr. old daughter of my own) to listen to a bunch of people you don't know, but we really have the rats best interest at heart and we want you to be knowledgeable in their care. We want you to ask questions and to learn.

[KayRatz]

I don't get anything anymore! I listen to what you guys say and you say I don't listen. I say I'm going to buy a new cage for rats and you say you wouldn't adopt to me. I say I can pay vet bills and you say that I'm irresponsible. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG HERE?

[Snowy]

Kay, have you read the posts in the past couple hours?  People are really trying to help you... I understand you may be feeling a bit defensive right now because of some of the previous posts, but now people are giving you resources to check out and just generally trying to help.  Wanted to add, if you wait to get your rats, you can get a ticker like mine!  I got mine way before I got the rats and it had a countdown to the day I planned to get them.  So I could look at and see, hey, 5 weeks and 2 days left!

[KayRatz]

You have no clue what went on in the chat room, do you?

[Snowy]

Hi Kay!  I didn't realize you were in the chat room and there really wouldn't be any reason for me to know since a) you didn't mention you were there, and b) the only way I could've known is if I'd noticed your teeny tiny username after "currently in chat".  I've never gone to the chat room because there isn't usually more than one or two people there, so I'd have no reason to look.  I can see why you're upset, but there's no need to get huffy with people who are trying to help...  Maybe you should take a breather for tonight and come back tomorrow?

[KayRatz]

Well most of you are doing a poor job at helping... I'm researching. I'm going to get proper equipment. I'm going to give proper care. What more must I do?

[injectionofyou]

people are trying to help you and make sure you are able to give the best care you possibly can for the rats.

[KayRatz]

Well I've said I can give 'the best care possible'. What's wrong with that? Why do I keep getting criticized and made to feel like a 3-year-old?

[injectionofyou]

if you feel you can then stop posting and say thanks for the advice, stop dragging it out.

[KayRatz]

I'm NOT trying to drag it out. I'm trying to make sure I can do it right by asking you guys for more advice, and yet all you give anymore is criticism!

[LastEchoes]

I'm NOT trying to drag it out. I'm trying to make sure I can do it right by asking you guys for more advice, and yet all you give anymore is criticism!

People are just trying to help you realize what you're truly in for and just how much responsibility it takes to properly care for a living creature (in this case rats). There has been some great advice about what you can do being that you rely on your parents for certain things. Listen, learn, come up with a plan of action and ask for advice/suggestions.
People on these boards are PASSIONATE about rats and can come off a bit strong...everyone is being patient with you and you be patient with everyone.

[KayRatz]

I know what to do and how I'm going to do it, but how do you explain the multiple kickings despite my silence in the chat room? I just wanted to watch the convo and I was kicked MULTIPLE times without saying a word.

[Keltikka]

KayRatz,

I think there may be some miscommunication. Maybe we aren't fully understanding your situation.  Have you sat down and talked with your parents about this? We don't know the conversations you had with them, we only know what you have written - The thread started out with Dad saying maybe 1 rat, no vet care, tank with a screen lid. Now its 2 rats, yes vet care  and a cage. We just want to make sure the rats will be properly taken care. We will listen to what you have to say we just want to know what version is the accurate one  so we know how to properly respond.

I haven't called you irresponsible or that I don't think you should get rats. I said I think you can do this and that you are showing resposibility and maturity by hanging out here and discussing this instead of leaving. I'm just counseling patience and that you do MORE research past the what you have already done.

I listen to what you guys say and you say I don't listen. I say I'm going to buy a new cage for rats and you say you wouldn't adopt to me.  

I said to buy the cage first before getting the rats, to prepare before getting the rats, not that you shouldn't get any.

I listen to what you guys say and you say I don't listen.

If you read my last post, what do you think about what I said about the benefits of volunteering at a shelter?

Pascale and MirandaRat were just trying to say they know and understand where you are coming from as they did what  you are doing at the same age and they were letting you know how it turned out and how much what they have learned since then has been better for the rats that they've had since then.

Don't get caught up in the criticism. Just don't rush into buying the rats. PREPARE for them.

I don'y do the chats so I don't know what was said. I'm sorry if you were slammed, but there are some of us who genuinely care about you and your potential rats and we ARE trying to help.
Sweetie, you may want to hang it up for the night, but please come back after things calm down a little.

I really think you can do this KayRatz with just a little help.

[KayRatz]

well there isn't a shelter near enough to go on a weekly basis, unfortunately... I did talk with them. They said we'll do this together.

[Blackthorn]

For crying out loud.. just STOP.  Right now you are driving everyone crazy!  You're not going to get everyone's approval, especially not with the way you are carrying on like a child throwing a tantrum.  Start preparing yourself, come back with some evidence of that, and in the meantime, let it go!

[injectionofyou]

thank you god finally someone has said it.

[KayRatz]

I'm not carrying on or anything. I'm done. I'm finished. I know I can do it, you don't know a thing about me, and that's it.