The male can be introduced to the boy kittens when they're 5 or 6 weeks old.  You'll have to wait at least three weeks AFTER neutering (if he isn't already) before introducing him to any of the females.   

Just curious - what are you keeping the females in?

my two females are in thier crittertrail houses which are smaller than my main housing   i think it seems safer for moms and babies  since there is nowhere to drop them from in these cages my big one has multiple levels.  now that my little mom and her litter of ten are more active and roaming around more i will most likely move my male to the smaller cage and let lil mama and the babies have the big house                whew  we already have three cages and thought that it would be enough room, but now i am looking into another large cage as i will have to seperate the male/female rittens.
all of my rats are healthy and well mannered and running an inhome foster for ferrell cats and kittens and anything else that needed help for over three years of my life has informed me alot about reasons to breed      my fioncee and i simply decided that we love our pets and we would let them do what nature intended unless problems with thier health arose  my fioncee is in the pest control industry and it is kind of our way to give back to the species if you understand   we only planned on letting our girls have a litter a piece but  our vet said that after the first unsuccessful litter we should let our female breed again and this would improve her mood and overall health   (she lost the one baby she had and  quit eating   wasnt sick, just sad)  so we let her have another litter and she is back to herself                   one can only hope things go well   and we will have another litter of rittens to be joyful for

If she only had one kitten in her first litter and it died, obviously something went wrong in the process of gestation or birth. She shouldn't have been bred a second time. How long ago did she have that first pregnancy? Chances are, there wasn't enough space in between them and that is why she has so suddenly returned to her 'old self'. Not only that, pregnancies close together affect the mothers health. Even her bones! Her body should be given time to recover after such a trauma, but ideally she never should have been bred at all. Let alone twice.

There is never any reason for an animal to have a litter. It doesn't make them healthier, they won't die if they don't, etc. And it actually increases the likelyhood of their dieing prematurely, or earlier than they would have otherwise. Most breeders believe that every time an animal is bred it shortens it's lifespan just a little. I agree, it sounds like you really really Really need a new vet.

Please keep the males and the females seperated at all times and do not breed again. There are probably thousands of rats out there in need of homes and more are being bred every day, by people who have no care or clue about what they are getting themselves into. The case would be slightly different if they had pedigrees and were being bred by a reputable breeder, but letting them breed to 'give back' to the species isn't giving back. It's taking away from all those homeless rats out there. There are already several rats stuck in shelters in TX needing homes. They don't need more competition for much needed homes.

And Critter trails are not big enough for rats, not even one. They often aren't even big enough for a large hamster. You really should get rid of them and invest in a large enough cage. Here is a link to a cage calculator that calculates how many rats can be housed in a given size cage. 2 cubic feet per rat is the recommended and best amount of space per rat.
http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml

You've already got 12 rats, with a whole other litter on the way. Which could be as many as 20-some more. Hopefully not. But you've already worked your way up to at least 18, if your big female just had 6. And chances are, they'll be more than that. Not only that, but all of the babies will be around the same age and thus possibly have health issues all around the same time. You could be looking into quite a big expense as far as vet bills once they get older. And that doesn't include if they are sickly and genetically predisposed to health issues.

Exactly how does caring for feral cats inform one of reasons to breed rats? If nothing else, by seeing how badly neglected a species could be when allowed to breed at will in less than ideal circumstances, I would think you would be horrified at the idea of breeding. I'm trying to understand how anyone having to do with any sort of rescue/foster situation would then turn around and create their very own problem of overpopulation of bad genetics and health issues. How do you justify that? 'Oh, my fiance kills rats for a living, therefor we should breed them to repopulate the area!' Your rats haven't been in a 'natural' situation since atleast several generations back.

How are you supposed to evaluate health issues when you don't know anything about the rats? For all you know, by the time these rats reach a certain age, you find out they're prone to getting cancers, tumors in their brains, respiratory infections so bad that they must be nebulized every day for the res tof their lives. Did you stop to consider this at all before you just let 'nature take it's course'?


The fact that she had an unsuccessful litter like that should have tipped you off that something was not right! Rats reabsorb and abort their litters when they're dealing with less than ideal birthing situations. Having those litters does absolutely nothing good for their health! If anything, it puts them at more risk.

This entire thread has made me physically ill that not only a person who claims they were involved in foster care but a vet, too, would be so happy to allow such gross negligence of an animal's welfare. To justify it with their own needs and wants projected off onto these poor animals that have no say in what you're doing to them. Stop breeding them. Now.

Do you get all the feral cats fixed?   Your fiance isn't giving anything back to the species except to create job security for himself.   You're not improving the genetics, health, temperament, or conformation by randomly letting rats procreate.  And I pray you're not counting hamster cages as part of your rat cage inventory.

You sound like a sweet person, but your notions are extremely naive and misguided.  Your lack of knowledge is harming the animals you think you are being kind to.  Please use this forum to learn and mature into good rat parents.  We welcome, with open arms, folks who are serious about taking the best possible care of their ratties and will gladly help you do well by these precious ratties.  You can obviously see we're a very passionate community.

If you really love animals so much, do the right thing, and do not allow them to have babies.   Taking in feral cats should have shown you the reasons NOT to breed.  I consider your situation an emergency, and I'm sure a lot of members here do too, so you're likely going to get some blunt and possibly heated responses, so hang on to your skin.  We really only want to help.

Research, research, research.  The impression I get is that you don't know nearly enough about being a responsible rat owner, and that's fine, as long as you realize your mistakes and grow quickly.  You're going to be overwhelmed and are already way in over your head, and don't even know it. 

Please, please, please, please do not do this.  Get all the rats fixed.  Keep only one sex, if you cannot afford to speuter everyone.  Being a stellar and responsible pet owner is a GREAT way to give back.  Become a living testimony to others, not part of the problem. 

Robin

Blue, you need to get those rats OUT of the hamster cages.  They are in no way suitable for any rat, ESPECIALLY pregnant/nursing moms and litters.  They need at least a 20 gallon for each mom/litter.

To go with what KMW said and use statistics a bit more, here is how much space you'd need for the numbers KMW mentioned- her last being 623 rats.

You would need 1246 cubic feet just to keep your rats, and that might be a little more because they need seperated. And that's if you got them to stop by then.

That would mean you'd need 125 cages like the cage TexSusie is offering to you. And once you get to numbers that size, it is very hard to keep them all seperated, clean, fed, and healthy, I'm sure. You'd be so overwhelmed that your own fiancee would probably have to eventually come into his own home while on the job. That doesn't sound very fun for him or you, having to exterminate rats that you created.

I wonder how many people actually lurk in a forum they just joined, reading past posts.  Obviously not many.     I read so much to see what I could learn first and how the forum worked (plus I was shy  ).   Lets hope she IS still reading, since she hasn't done her backreading before posting this controversial post.  She cannot know too much about rats at all, so she does need our help.  Robin did warn her that we will gladly help people who want to learn and I am sure that almost all of us agree, but since we are a passionate group that there will be some flaming too.
I am hoping she will post again so we at least know she read our responses. 

HELLO PEOPLE   THIS IS NOT THE PAMELA ANDERSON ROAST BUT WITH ME INSTEAD             

AKNOWLEDGEABLY   I DIDNT KNOW ALL TOO MUCH ABOUT BREEDING THE RATS   I'VE LEARNED A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT MORE AND AM STILL LEARNING   LIKE 99% OF THE HUMAN POPULATION IS I'M SURE.    [edited]

LET ME REPHRASE AND EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO ALL OF YOU   OUR PERSONAL BELIEFS IN MY HOUSEHOLD GO AGAINST ANY TYPE OF INTERFERANCE WITH WHAT HAPPENS IN NATURE IF AT ALL POSSIBE   I.E. WE DONT KILL BUGS IN OUR HOME EVEN WHEN MY HUBBY TO BE KILLS THEM ALL DAY  WE SCOOP THEM UP AND PUT THEM OUTSIDE  UNLESS THE BUG HAPPENS TO BE A BEE OR WASP TOO CLOSE TO ME THEN I WIND UP KILLING THEM   ONLY   BECAUSE I AM ALLERGIC TO THE STINGS AND CANNOT RISK IT.   WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT HIS JOB IS A GOOD THING       IN FACT WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS ONLY CLEANING UP OUR OWN MESS AS A DESTRUCTIVE SPECIES  WE TAKE AWAY THE NATURAL HABITATS FOR ALL LIVING ORGANISMS AND THEN BUILD OURS ON TOP OF IT AND KILL ANYTHING THAT COMES INSIDE; NATURE HAS ADAPTED TO US AND WITH US   THEREFORE WE BELIEVE EVERY LIFE HAS A CHANCE           UNFORTUNATELY   NOT EVERYONE SEE'S THINGS THAT WAY                 

ON THE NOTE OF THE BAD VET;         AT THIS POINT I'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU     I DIDNT FIND THIS SITE UNTIL THE PROSSESS HAD ALREADY STARTED AND I WENT TO THE VET AND LOOKED AT SEVERAL BREEDING SITES ON THE WEB  UNFORTUNATELY  I DIDNT GET AS MUCH INFORMATION AS I WOULD'VE LIKED TO HAVE   I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP AND INFORMATION  BUT THE TONE OF YOUR POSTS IS A LITTLE OVER THE TOP       I TOOK ADVISE FROM A TRUSTED VET OF MINE THAT HAS TAKEN CARE OF COUNTLESS PETS AND FOSTERS      THE ADVICE GIVEN TO ME IS WHAT I TOOK AND ALTHOUGH I NOW KNOW THAT WAS NOT CHARACTERIZED AS GOOD ADVICE; "BIG MAMMA" HAS A HEALTHY LITTER OF 14 AND WE HAVE UNDERGONE BUYING AND REARRANGING CAGES.  WE ARE JUST HAPPY TO SEE HER NOT DEPRESSED AND LOOKING FOR BABIES ANYMORE,  SHE WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT THE FIRST LITTER AND SHE HAS THIS TWINKLE IN HER EYE AND HER WHOLE TEMPERMENT IS BACK TO HER SWEET SELF   WE WILL     NOT     BE BREEDING AGAIN,      WE ARE JUST GLAD TO HAVE 14 NEW LIVES HERE AND BIG MAMMA'S HEALTH AND HAPPINESS   

NOW     THE LATEST NEWS FOR ALL WHO ARE INTERESTED ON HOW OUR FAMILY IS DOING

AS YOU READ BIG MAMMA HAS HAD 14 RITTENS 4 ALL BROWN WITH WHITE TIP TAIL, FEET AND CHESTS 5 WHITE, AND 5 HOODED   THEY ARE ALL GROWING FAST AND SHE IS GREAT WITH THEM   SHE'S ENJOYING HER NICE BIG CAGE NOW, BUT DOESNT GO FAR FROM HER LITTER, JUST TO COME SAY HI AND GET SNACKS   BUT HEY SHE'S WORKING HARD!
LIL MAMMA IS DOING WONDERFUL  ITS AN INTERESTING SITE TO SEE HER TEN    BIG  RITTENS NURSING ON HER   SHE IS THE BEST MOM & IS ALSO ENJOYING HER NEWER BIGGER HOME          I HAVE NOT SEPERATED HER RITTENS YET AS THEY ARE NOT QUITE 5 WEEKS BUT THE BOYS AND DAD GET PLENTY OF PLAYTIME ALREADY AND WHILE "BIG DADDY RAT" IS HUGE AND PLAYS AT THE SAME SPEED THE RITTENS DO, HE IS EVER SO GENTLE WITH THEM  A FRIEND OF MINE ENCOURAGED ME TO INTRODUCE THEM THIS WAY BEFORE THEY GET TO AGE AND THAT WAY IF THERE IS A PROBLEM YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO REACH THROUGH A CAGE TO BREAK IT UP       AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER  HE LIKES TO "RITTEN-SIT"  WHILE I'M CLEANING THE CAGES AND WHATS SO FUNNY IS WHEN THE BOYS CUDDLE UP WITH HIM THEY SOMETIMES TRY TO NURSE AND HE'LL JUST LAY ON HIS BACK AND CLEAN THEM AND LET THEM TRY    ITS HILARIOUS                 

AS FAR AS PICTURES GO WE JUST GOT THE CAMERA BACK FROM PENNSILVANIA TRANSELVANIA  WHEREVER THEY SENT IT    JUST TO GET THE SHUTTER FIXED              SO WE WILL HAVE PICTURES UP SOON

I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE PLENTY OF RATS THAT NEED HOMES   JUST AS THERE ARE PLENTY OF CATS AND DOGS AND EVEN PEOPLE THAT NEED HOMES................        I UNDERSTAND THE THEORY OF NOT BREEDING IN DISEASE AND GENETIC PROBLEMS AND TAKING AWAY FROM HOMES THAT COULD GO TO OTHER RATS,   AND I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT BEING A CAT FOSTER MOM QUALIFIES ME FOR ANYTHING OR DOESNT     I KNOW THE PLIGHT OF THE SPECIES VERY WELL    THE ANIMALS BECOME FAMILY AND FRIENDS AND  WHEN ONE OF MY RESCUE CATS CAME INTO HEAT  WE LET HER BREED AND SHE HAD A HEALTHY HAPPY LITTER  INFACT HER DAUGHTER IS SITTING IN MY LAP....      NOW BEING A CAT FOSTER MOM BREEDING HER WAS THE "WRONG" THING TO DO  BUT JUST AS WOMEN HAVE THE URGE AND DESIRE TO HAVE CHILDREN ALL BECAUSE OF HORMONAL CHANGE AND SURVIVAL INSTINCTS, SO DO ANIMALS    THEY HAVE FEELINGS AND WISHES TOO                 I'M JUST SAYING I DO MY BEST TO FOLLOW THE "RULES AND GUIDELINES" SO TO SPEAK ON PRESERVING SPECIES'    BUT MY UNDERSTANDING NATURE TELLS ME THAT ITS NOT MY PLACE TO INTERFERE AT ALL    THE REASON ITS ALREADY SCREWED UP IS BECAUSE OUR SPECIES TAKES CONTROL AND GOES OKAY I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AND THEN POOF THERE GOES A SPECIES OR POOF THERE GOES EVOLUTION      SO I TRY TO LET NATURE TAKE ITS COURSE WITHIN REASON    I'M NOT GOING TO BE BACK TO BACK LITTERING   JUST GIVING BOTH MOMS THE OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE A MOM


PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND MY VIEWS AS WE ALL ARE ENTITLED TO OUR OWN SET OF VALUES MORALS AND BELIEFS               

I THINK MORE THE FOCUS NEEDS TO BE ON FINDING LOVING HOMES FOR THESE BABIES AND DOING EVERYTHING I CAN TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE HEALTHY, HAPPY AND WELL CARED FOR   

I HAVE MAX   ( THE     BIG    WHITE ONE FROM LIL MAMMA'S LITTER) SITTING ON MY SHOULDER AS I TYPE   THE RITTENS RIDE AROUND ON THE CATS  (SUPERVISED)   AND SLEEP BY THE BOXER WE TOOK IN OFF THE STREET IN HIS BIG BED (ALSO SUPERVISED)       THEY ARE HAPPY TO BE HERE    THEY ARE HAPPY TO BE ALIVE AND FOR ME THAT IS WORTH IT   

[edited to remove personal attack - suebee]