when is it meds for life?

[pepperannie]

 ???How do you know when it is time to do meds for life?  My group seems to go only about 2 weeks without making the crackling sounds.  This last time the 3 boys started and now the little girl started this morning two weeks after the boys.  She looked bad this morning but I started her on baytril doxy combo and tonight she seemed much better.   Turtles, one of the boys, has the red staining around his nose now.  He is still on the combo so I don't know whats with that.  I don't hear any crackling.

I tried just doxy and they ate that pretty good but once I put the baytril in they won't take it so good.  I have tried syrup, baby cereal, nutristat, nurtrical and they fight taking it.  I read somewhere they have beef flavored batril tablets so I might question a vet about that.

They seemed to take the baytril alone months ago mixed with yogurt but once I went to the doxy/baytril combo the yogurt was out due to the calcuim thing. 

Any other ideas for the baytril.  I have tried baby food too and they refuse to take it.

[ratlets]

Are you giving the medicines under vet orders?

How long are you doing the courses of antibiotics for?

Not every illness is susceptible to baytril and/or doxy.

I use chicken baby food to disguise meds... works every time.

[jorats]

When rats are no longer responding to the meds, it's time to switch, try something different. Another thing, when doing the combo, you should wait 30 minutes in between the meds, they shouldn't be mixed together.
You should go back to your vet and try zithro, chlor palm, gentamycin... or what you could also try is 1 week on Baytril and 2 weeks off. It's called the pulse treatment.

edited to add: just noticed I didn't really answer your question. For me, I know it's time to medicate for life when I see them doing good on the med and if I stop they go downhill. That's when I start them on a forever maintenance dose, as long as they are doing good on it.

[wonderrodent]

I had no idea that you shouldn't give the combo at the same time, Jo! I've been doing this for months.  What's the reason behind that? Is it not as effective?

[mandycoot]

I have one rat on a long-term maintenance dose of meds. My vet and I finally found a combo that helped (but not fully), but prevented her from getting worse, so we decided to continue the meds until her status changed.

I had no idea about giving med combos either! I mix them together to give them.

[ratlets]

I didn't know about the mixing either... tell us, Jo! Quit holding out!

[Dearpie]

My vet has always said it's fine to give the meds all at once.  But both baytril and doxy need to have that same 2 hour window of withholding dairy.

As for when do you give meds for life?  When you've exhausted all possiblities.  Are you giving the meds for a full week after the symptoms are gone?  This is typically why 3 weeks is recommended for a round of antibiotics.   Are you sure there aren't any outside sources, and perhaps it's allergies?  (In which case, the meds shouldn't be working in the first place.)  Perhaps it's plain ole lung scaring?  What concentration/amount of the meds are you giving?  Are you underdosing, so the rats never really get completely over the problem?

[jorats]

Each med is absorb in the body at a different rate. Although both at the same time is probably not harmful but it's just best to make sure the body works with one and then the other.

[JR1030]

Each med is absorb in the body at a different rate. Although both at the same time is probably not harmful but it's just best to make sure the body works with one and then the other.

Oh, my gosh, I never heard of that.  In fact, I posted a question about whether it was ok to mix them together when I first got them, and got a bunch of affirmative responses. Hmmm.

[Lise]

I have always given baytril/doxy at the same time.  Aren't they synergistic drugs?   ie: The two drugs actually help each others performance in the body.

[reedross]

My vet has always told me that baytril/doxy can be given at the same time......

I've had a couple of rats that were on this combo for life - every time they came off the meds, all the symptoms came back - as long as they were on it, they were fine........ so, in my opinion - if the meds are working until you stop them, then they should just stay on them.  And I believe (without looking it up in my book) that DebbieD also recommends this.

[Rat girl]

I too have always given the Batril/doxy combo at the same time?  My vet said it was fine.  I'm definitely looking into that now though.

I've had two rats in the past who were "Med's for life".   One boy has recently passed on, but the other is still around.  If he comes off of the meds he instantly goes back downhill.  He started having problems when he was almost 11 months old and has basically been taking meds his whole life.  It took awhile to find what worked best for him, and now he's doing fine, even in his advanced age!

[Squeeky]

Are you sure baytril can't be taken with calcium?

I give meds all at the same time as it would be unmanageable otherwise ... Cindy is on 5 meds twice a day and 1 med 3xs a day.

[JR1030]

My vet told me Baytril is ok with calcium, but Doxy is not.  Since I give both together, I end up avoiding it altogether.

[Dearpie]

My vet is the one who told me that baytril can't be given with calcium.  I'd rather err on that side ... 

[menagerie]

I have always given baytril/doxy at the same time.  Aren't they synergistic drugs?   ie: The two drugs actually help each others performance in the body.

Yes they are. I've had several vets tell me to give the meds at the same time. Not only is it easier on the caregiver, it's easier on the animal to get it over with all at once. If I had been required to give Carrow the 8 different meds he need twice a day separately, that's all I would have been doing for 8 months. Most of the time it's not feasible to spread meds out and as Lise pointed out with doxy/baytril, they are synergistic and compliment and boost each other. Calcium affects the way that both baytril and doxy are absorbed by the body, making them less effective if taken within two hours of consuming calcium.

[JR1030]

Ok, back to the meds for life question...I sort of wonder if my boys need that, too.  When you decide that's the way to go, is the maintenance dose of Baytril and/or Doxy smaller?  Or the same dose, but only once a day instead of twice?  Or is it really the same dosage as when they're actually sick, but forever?

[mandycoot]

I give a normal dose. I imagine that a low dose would run the risk of building resistance.

[pepperannie]

Well, Jack has been on the baytril/doxy for a little over 2 weeks again and tonight he started his sneezing again.  Then he made coughing like sounds. Sometime when he cleans himself he makes this noise like he is all stuffed up and then sneezes and it stops.  Well, he was just walking around and making this awful sound.  He was not gasping just coughing in a way.  He ran in the corner and started cleaning himself.  I gave him some dark chocolate because I was really scared.  I am going to call the vet tomorrow.  I just don't know.  He is eating okay.  I know once I get to the vet, they will see or hear nothing.  That is how it always goes!

[Lise]

I am talking to my vet about trying a maintenance dose of baytril only, such as the one mentioned on rat guide.

Jorats has had success with her chronic rats maintenance on Baytril only for life.

[pepperannie]

Well, this is just so frustrating. Now Jacks cagemate, Turtles, started with the squeaky noise.  He has also been on the baytril/doxy combo going on 2 and 1/2 weeks.  I waited 2 hours after the meds and gave him just a tad bit of yogurt last evening.  This morning he was making the squeaky noise and this evening also.  He is eating good.  I am just at wits end.

[Bekah]

Sometime when he cleans himself he makes this noise like he is all stuffed up and then sneezes and it stops. 

Kind of a wet sound?  One of my girls gets that periodically, though she's just recently switched meds and hopefully it will stop.  Chocolate doesn't seem to help, as it's fluid in her lungs, not a problem with her bronchial tubes narrowing.  For a while I would get her to sneeze by holding her upside-down (with her legs draped through my fingers and her head pointing downward and resting on my arm) under a fleece blanket with one end thrown over a humidifier.  (Does that make any sense whatsoever??)  But it was actually making the fluid buildup worse.  I found she does much better just being held upside-down like that, with no heat or moisture.  She starts to struggle and snort a bit more right before she sneezes, I guess because the fluid draining tickles.  But it clears her breathing right up in just a few minutes.  When it's been particularly bad before, a droplet or two has just fallen right out.  It's pretty satisfying.