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Author Topic: Quick, somebody help? Sores on chin! (UPDATE: Questions)  (Read 1143 times)
munkeesmama
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« on: May 28, 2007, 01:18:43 AM »

I noticed tonight after one of my girls was acting really stand offish that she has some sores on her chin and some missing hair. Almost like if she had been in a fight but they're not really in a spot where you would normally find them and my girls don't really fight. I then notice 2 other girls have the same thing but not as bad. Any ideas? They're fed Harlan Teklad 2016 right now, and various fruits and veggies. They're kept on fabric bedding changed every 2-3 days and have coconut husk litter (safe for ratties). any ideas? They don't have fleas, and don't appear to have any bugs.. just these sore looking things with some hair missing. If it doesn't go away I'll take one to the vet and go from there, but wondering if anybody has some experience or ideas on what it could be!

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« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 04:26:50 PM by munkeesmama » Logged


Elaina, owned by 11 rats, 1 dog, 3 kids
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2007, 05:26:35 AM »

I really don't know, but from the look of the photo, I would be inclined to think they have mites.  I would treat them with a dose of Revolution and see if in a day or so, the wounds start to clear up.  If not, then I'd be looking for something that may be irritating them, I would less inclined to think this is a wound from fighting.  I would be interested to read other peoples thoughts.   I hope your girls recover from this soon.  Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2007, 07:03:43 AM »

Yep, that's almost definitely a mite infestation. She's pretty chewed up, too Sad  You'll have to treat for mites and the bite wounds should start healing up pretty quickly.

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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2007, 09:15:46 AM »

Mites are microscopic, so you can't see them on the poor guys. They just start itching, usually around their face, cheeks, and ears. Skin scrapes can come back with false negatives, so your best bet would be to go ahead and treat for mites. I personally like using Kitten Revolution from the vet since it's just one application and you don't have to go crazy with cleaning. Ivermectin is another option, but you have to scrub down everything, vacuum the floors, and toss everything that's paper/wood. I also had difficulty getting it into my girls.

Mites come into your home through wood and paper products like new toys, litter, etc.. You should freeze all new wood and paper products for 24-48hrs before putting them in the cage. You can also freeze their current stuff to kill any mites on them.
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munkeesmama
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2007, 09:45:03 AM »

Thanks! It's really weird since i didn't notice anything on them daye before yesterday and then last night it was just bad on her and she didn't want me to touch her. Poor baby. I'll have to wait until Tuesday to get to the vet since it's a holiday weekend. Any idea how they prescribe the revolution? Is it topical or oral? Dosing?
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2007, 09:47:55 AM »

Generally, they'll give you the kitten/puppy type, and you put a drop (more or less...Revolution is very forgiving) on the back of their shoulders/neck, and then try to keep them distracted for 10-15 minutes, so they don't groom it all off, and that's it!  Easy as pie.
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2007, 10:29:32 AM »

What JR said, heh. It's a tiny little tube with enough to dose 4 or so rats once. You'll want the kitten/puppy version as they have the same concentration. You'll also want to separate any that you dose from each other. I just held each girl for about 5 minutes. It's such a tiny amount, it's absorbed pretty quickly.
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munkeesmama
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2007, 10:03:54 PM »

Thanks, well i have 8 rats to treat. I figure if one has it they all do or will get it so i'd rather be safe than sorry. I'm taking one rat to the vet and hoping they'll give me enough meds for all of them.
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2007, 10:33:37 PM »

I believe the cat and small dog dose is the same concentration. Your vet can tell you for sure, but it might be more economical to buy a larger dose.
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2007, 05:40:31 AM »

kitten/puppy and cat/small dog are I believe 60 mg/ml and dog is 120 mg/ml...twice as strong.
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2007, 07:48:37 AM »

When I was first dealing with this, I just took one boy, because the other one was a "biter".  As long as they're all about the same weight, I don't think the vet would mind.
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2007, 04:31:10 PM »

So, we went to the Vet. I really like this practice but he basically told me (after a skin scrape confirming mites, and ouch poor baby looks horrible from that) that he only does ivermectin injections and that problems arise from not diluting it well enough, and that he's worked extensively with rats and never has a problem. I felt uneasy but let him give her the injection. I have 2 other rats at hmes with mites, and i'm sure the other 5 have them as well, just no symptoms yet. So, they all need to be treated. EACH shot is 41 bucks (plus a 57 office fee for all of them conbined), and they'd all need 3 hts. That's 984 bucks. I have a vet reserve but not THAT much and my son is having surgery on friday. Keep in mind i'm not hugely comfortable with the injections anyways. So, I mentioned ivermection horse paste and he said he's heard of it, he can't tell me to go ahead with it, but he did tell me how to administer it. He will no prescribe or condone the use of revolution in rats...So I came home, cried, and ordered some revolution online. It won't arrive for a week. One of my girls has had her first ivermectin shot and in the meantime i don't want my others to suffer for a week. I thought about going and getting some ivermectin from the feed store, giving it to my other 7 rats, disinfecting/cleaning their cage, and then in 2-3 weeks dose them with one dose of revolution. What do you think. (I realize everyine will say go to vet, but i have done that already). What would you do?  help
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007, 04:56:09 PM »

Are the other rats showing symptoms like the one with the scabs? If so, go get the ivermectin now. It's a pain, and doesn't always work, but it can give them some relief.  Here's the article for Ivermectin on RatGuide. As for treating everyone, it's a very good idea, but they may never show any symptoms. All rats have mites on them at all times, but generally their grooming keep the numbers down to a level they can manage. When the rats are stressed or ill is when the mites start to overwhelm them and we see the scabs and itching.

Honestly, I can't blame you for not wanting to do the ivermectin injections. Rats have a high tendency to get abscesses at injection sites, and those are never fun. I had it done once, and it was just an initial treatment until I could get her home and on Revolution. She was not a happy camper.

According to RatGuide, you dose them with the paste once a week, so if you dosed them now, by the time the Revolution comes it will be time to dose them again. Then you can just use the Revolution.
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2007, 05:01:24 PM »

I have used ivermectin horse paste to treat lice on my girls in the past. You just have to be very careful on the dosage and have some yummy treats to give them afterwards (judging from their reaction, it doesnt taste good). It worked wonders......I've never used Revolution but I hear that's a good way to get situation under control.

When cleaning the cage, remember to get rid of any wooden or cardboard objects......You can't disinfect those 100% so its just safer to throw it away.
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2007, 05:17:40 PM »

Quote
I thought about going and getting some ivermectin from the feed store, giving it to my other 7 rats, disinfecting/cleaning their cage, and then in 2-3 weeks dose them with one dose of revolution. What do you think. (I realize everyine will say go to vet, but i have done that already). What would you do?

If none of the other rats are showing symptoms yet, I personally would just wait for the Revolution. It may be that the mites aren't bothering them that much (which may mean that the girl who IS showing symptoms has something else going on?).  I'm not too experienced with this, having just recently battled my first mite problem, but I went with Revolution and it seemed to work well.  I am a little more wary of Ivermectin and I wonder why your doctor will only do that?  $984 is a ludicrous amount to treat mites...jeez!
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munkeesmama
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2007, 06:13:31 PM »

Thanks, all together 3 of my rats have scabs..fern was just the worst so she went to the vet. EACH shot is the 41 bucks...times 8 rats, and 3 doses it adds up. So, I went and bought the ivermection. I plan on treating the other 7 rats tonight, disinfecting the cage/washing fabric etc. then in 2 weeks (after the revolution gets here) I'll dose them with that and hopefully they'll be good to go after that. Smiley I know alot of people are against home medicating, but seriously, the vet wasnt much help and i refuse to subject them all to injections.
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2007, 06:16:32 PM »

That is craaaaaazy expensive! Sounds like you've got a good plan though. I "home medicate" with Revolution -- every rat that comes into the colony gets treated, and my vet knows it and gave me a box so I could use it whenever.

Wow. Expensive.
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2007, 06:18:50 PM »

I don't know if it's my area or what (yorba linda/fullerton area) but all vets charge about $50 for the office visit $20-$20 for a skin scrape and the lowest i found on even the injections is like $35 for injection (I called around afterwards since it seems high). It's a good thing my hubby loves me and my rats. LOL  Shocked 2
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« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2007, 06:48:34 PM »

Wow that is insanely expensive..for one mite outbreak! You have a good plan of action in place. Home medicating for mites/lice is totally different, imo, than medicating for things like respiratory infections Smiley

-Melina
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« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2007, 07:01:09 PM »

I'm with Melina on this one. Home medicating with ivermectin or Revolution is pretty different from using Baytril, Doxy, etc.. Just make sure you mix the ivermectin really well before giving them the dose. It separates in the tube sometimes.
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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2007, 07:33:37 PM »

Thanks, I've read on the revolution anywhere from giving .1cc to "just a dab" as for administering it on the skin. Any hints or tips?
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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2007, 07:35:44 PM »

My vet told me one drop of the kitten/puppy Revolution on the back of their necks/shoulders.  It doesn't need to be exact, I guess, because it's not as dangerous as some if you overdo it.
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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2007, 07:42:06 PM »

I literally did just one drop of the Kitten Revolution. If you look at a syringe, .1cc [you did mean to put a period before the 1, right?] isn't much more/less than that one drop.

I give my girls a yogie to keep them occupied while I part their hair and put the drop between tehir shoulders. They get another one while it dries. Pretty much all there is to it. You do want to freeze your paper/wood products and vacuum after you dose them, but you don't have to bleach/disinfect.
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« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2007, 08:09:34 PM »

Thanks, I've read on the revolution anywhere from giving 1cc to "just a dab" as for administering it on the skin. Any hints or tips?

Its usually like 0.03 - 0.1ish cc's depending on the size of your rats.  Its seriously just a tiny drop.  1cc would be enough to be a toxic overdose for most rats.
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2007, 07:36:14 AM »

Thanks, I've read on the revolution anywhere from giving 1cc to "just a dab" as for administering it on the skin. Any hints or tips?

Its usually like 0.03 - 0.1ish cc's depending on the size of your rats.  Its seriously just a tiny drop.  1cc would be enough to be a toxic overdose for most rats.

Of Revolution?  I've heard that it's pretty safe.
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