*Serious* Aggression Issues

[tenaciousb]

I really hate that it's even come to this, I've had Jasmine for about ten months now and I just don't know what to do with her.  Jasmine started developing aggressive tendencies about five months ago, it started out as rearing back and nipping.  I tried to ignore it and thought she was just being curious and was super careful when I played with her, I even went so far as to buy latex dipped gloves.  However, about two weeks ago, I let my guard down and reached in to change the food dish.  Out of nowhere she comes charging across the cage and sinks her teeth into my pinky knuckle.  The end result was four stitches.  I began to lose hope right then and there.

Everything came to a culminating point when she did it again tonight.  Fool me once, shame on you, etc, etc.  I let my guard down again.  I was hanging onto the side of the cage with a few fingers poked in the top of the cage (I keep the girls in the top two tiers of the cage) while I was playing with my male, Yuki on the bottom.  She leapt up and bit the everloving Christ out of my pointer finger this time.  I had to shake and pull her off of my finger through the bars of the cage, in effect ripping the skin even further.  Ten stitches this time, five on both sides of my finger, and one ruined bathroom carpet.

My question now is:  What the heck am I supposed to do about this?  As much as it pains me, there's just no way I'm going to keep an animal that continues to attack me unprovoked, I've spent just about enough on ER visits.  Rehoming her would just set the problem on someone else's doorstep.  She used to be the sweetest, most playful thing, I honestly thought she'd outgrown it until tonight.  Any suggestions or help on the issue would be greatly appreciated.

[JR1030]

Is she alone in the cage?  If so, why?  Lone rats can become a bit eccentric, to say the least.  The other thing is that if she's only biting you when she's inside her cage, it could be a cage territory thing.  How is she when she's out?

[lilspaz68]

She's not alone JR1030, if you read her post she says "girls on the top".  Sounds like cage aggression.  What is she like outside of the cage and how often does she get out?

I've only seen stitches for ratbites once and that was a hand mauling.  I get bit, bleed like the dickens, polysporin and bandage myself.

[JR1030]

She's not alone JR1030, if you read her post she says "girls on the top". 

   My bad.  Haven't had coffee yet. 

[tenaciousb]

She's not any better outside of the cage, that's why I wear gloves when I handle her specifically.  She's bitten the gloves god only knows how many times.  I let them all out twice daily, they get plenty of exercise and social activity.  Both times I was bitten by her, it's like she latched on for dear life, I had to drag and jerk my hand away from her, that's what caused the stitches moreso than the initial bite.

[Pamnangel]

Perhaps spaying would calm her down.

[Scubbs]

I agree with the spaying suggestion.

[RatDude55]

I know what you mean by the bites.. I have a VERY aggressive male that I use gloves to handle. I think it is because he is not neutered and he's the Alpha. Pent up energy = aggression, or thats how I see it.

Unfortunately I cannot afford the neuter him at this time so I just watch my hands, especially with food or smells and when cleaning his cage I wear gloves.

[JR1030]

One thing that I've discovered with a biter that's latched on is that a little flick to the nose sometimes will make them let go...a better option than pulling your hand away, sometimes.  I really hope you can figure it out. 

[mandycoot]

I'm afraid I don't really have any suggestions ... I have a neutered male that still has serious aggressive tendencies and cannot be handled. He bites through layers of gloves like a knife through soft butter, and has sent me to the ER more than once as well. Honestly, I just don't handle him, and I try not to be stupid and put my hands where he can get (or think, "Maybe he won't bite today" and find myself to be very, very wrong). When we go to the vet he has to be gassed down in a Kritter Keeper for exams.

Right now I have a special cage setup for him and his brother. They are in a 680 that is attached to a playpen with a door cut out of it so I can usher them back and forth and close them off for cage cleanings. Here's a pic. I have a feeling this wouldn't be much of an option in your situation but it may give you some ideas?

[thestormysky]

Wow

That sounds like my girl Tsypka I got from the Humane Society a few years ago...although I never got bit bad enough for stiches..but she would come charging at me in or out of her cage..she did eventually stop it...I ended up adopting two young ratties from a breeder and she just flipped around completely.  She looked out for them and then she became sooo sweet...then she was too old (about 3.5) and lost the use of her back legs and was pts (

What are you thinking about doing?  You said that you don't want to give her to someone else but you don't really want to keep her either? 

Has anything changed in your home?  When did the change first happen and do you know of any events that could have caused or contributed to it? 

Or you could try the spaying option.  Have you taken her to the vet?  Is it possible she got hurt and maybe it didn't heal correctly so its still painful for her?

I'm not sure what else.

Is she still friendly with all her cagemates?  Is she the alpha rat? 

Will she take food from you w/o biting ur fingers?  Cuz you could try to "retame" her...start all over as though she is an untamed rattie that is afraid of people.  Anytime you go near her give her something tasty.  If she does bite your fingers then try just dropping it in front of her..then work ur way up to letting her take it from you..and then eventually maybe you will have it so she comes out of her cage for it.

I hope you can figure it out..its so odd to have such a personality change like that.

good luck

[RKEM]

Beyond a vet visit to rule out medical problems and perhaps spaying, my suggestion would be to stop rewarding agression. And by rewarding I mean letting her get what she wants: not to be picked up and scaring you away.

First decide on one area of the cage that will become "off limits" to you. Whenever she is in there don't stick your hand in ... an igloo or a hidey house, whatever. This is where she can run to if she wants to be left alone or is scared. Second, get a glove (or many of them ... scubba diving / fish handling gloves made of metal chainmail should provide enouch protection under a leather glove ... and be very unpleasant to bite) that is thick enough that she can bite without you getting injured. Then, as other have said, start to tame her all over again ... just putting your hand in the cage at first. If she attacks it, don't do anything, don't say anything, don't flinch, don't move. Let her go at it as much as she wants for as long as she wants. She will soon realize that it's not working and should stop bitting the glove. The more this happens : biting = doesn't work, the less she will do it. And as she gets used to the idea that a) your hand/glove is not evil and doesn't hurt her and b) she can't drive it out of her cage by agression, start to progress to going near her, touching her and eventually picking her up. Also bring treats with you to reinforce the fact that hand = yummies = good ... to transform your hand from something scary and threatening to something positive that she likes and seeks out.

As you progress and if she becomes comfortable with you, continue to touch her, pick her up, pet her, examine her and even do a bit of dominance ... gently flipping her over and rubbing her belly very gently to show that you (aka your hand) is stronger and is the alpha but that even as you are being dominant, you are never hurting her. Nothing violent or forceful, just a gentle show of dominance and keep doing it. With time it may even become part of play / wrestling.

I'm not saying that this is a foolproof method or that it won't take months to work but it has worked for me with "bitey" rescues, rats that had been abused and were fear biting, overly hormonal females and even males with known genetic agression. In the end it comes down to not rewarding behaviors that you don't like and rewarding those that you do.

Even if it doesn't work at all, you can always wear the glove all the time and keep her. Rats don't live super long and even though she may not become affectionate, providing her with a safe place to live, with food, company and toys will probaby be a great life for her anyway. I can understand how it can be painfull emotionally to have an animal attack you even though all you want to do is care for it and what not, but remember that you understand this but she does not. You chose to become a rat owner, she did not choose to be owned by you. Also try to remember that she does not hate you, more likely she is afraid or her hormones are just making her super standoffish and cranky.

If there is absolutely no way to tame her, I would say that the best option for her (not the easiest one for you) would be to find a way to effectively protect yourself (thick gloves and herding her into a carrier to change the cage) and just keep her until she passes. You have had her for 10 months so in all likelyhood, this represents a future commitment of a maximum of two years (likely less) for you but to her it will mean the difference between life and death.

[mandycoot]

Second, get a glove (or many of them ... scubba diving / fish handling gloves made of metal chainmail should provide enouch protection under a leather glove ... and be very unpleasant to bite) that is thick enough that she can bite without you getting injured.

I just wanted to warn that in my experience, they can bite through fish filleting gloves even when layered with leather gloves. Unfortunately, those gloves are meant to protect from slashes and not puncture wounds.

[RKEM]

Really? Even the scubba diving ones?

Maybe something like this then?

http://www.hexarmor.com/products/item/veterinarian/hercules-3041/

[mandycoot]

I don't think I tried anything that heavy duty -- I got some kind of like that from Fleet Farm but they were in the fish section and I'm sure they weren't meant for scuba diving. However, at $105 a pair I may just stick with the "no touching" rule for Armand.

[RKEM]

All you have to do is charge people each time they pet one of your rat, that way you can recuperate the costs super quickly 

That being said, I've had to handle one nasty hamster when I was younger and overstuffed mittens worked like a wonder. his teeth were just not long enough to go through all the padding.

[Scubbs]

Hey Mandy - what sort of litter is that in the litter box in the picture?

[mandycoot]

It's something new I'm trying. It's called Papurr, and it's a paper cat litter that looks and feels like clay. It's non-clumping, dustless and is nice and scoopable, which I really like. It's got a slightly perfumy scent though it's not supposed to be scented, so we'll see, but it works very well! It's kind of freaky how much it looks like regular clay cat litter, though.

[JR1030]

Really? Even the scubba diving ones?

Maybe something like this then?

http://www.hexarmor.com/products/item/veterinarian/hercules-3041/

Did you see these are for "human biters", too?  Yikes!  Although this method is looking pretty good to me for my cage aggressive boy.  Hmmm....