Chewie and Leia; They're approx 2-3mo old, but still only half the size of Snootles (Who's about 6mo old and has been with me about 2 months... also full grown). That is my biggest concern.

I've had their cages side by side for the last week, they clearly have little to no interest in each other anymore. Snoots doesn't even seem to notice them there anymore. Whereas a week ago she was chewing on the bars of her cage on the side they sit on. She watched them the other day curiously as they played. I let her out to walk to the side of their cage where she sat as the babies tried to play with her by reaching through the bars and pawing at her face.. she was a good girl and just let them. No signs of aggression.

Today I decided I would take them all into the bathroom (most neutral/secure spot I could think of). I only took Chewie out. I let Snoots out of her cage to run free and I held Chewie in my hand. I put her down close enough for Snoots to come close to. I kept a spray bottle with water handy just in case.

At first she sniffed, then she pawed a bit, Chewie started to wiggle free from my hand and it looked like Snoots may have tried to bite on the back of her neck.  Terrified, I immediately grabbed Snoots and handed her to my Mom who was watching with me. Not sure if maybe she was trying to maybe groom her or show Chewie, "I'm the boss".. we decided to try the same thing again.

We put Snoots down and again I held Chewie down for Snoots... this time it looked like Snoots may have nipped at Chewie's nose, and started pawing at her face. Chewie let out a squeak but it's hard to tell with her sometimes (she's just vocal in general).

I'm really not sure.. I think Snoots could have been more aggitated that I was holding Chewie, and not her. That could have been enough. I'm ok with Snoots layin down the law, but what scares me is the size difference. I'm afraid in the display of dominance Snoots may unintentionally hurt or kill one of the girls. If she even gets one good bite on these girls, or gets them locked down good they won't be able to defend themselves.

What do you guys think? Wait until the new girls are bigger? Should I try it NOT holding anyone, just let them all run around on the floor together? 

If this puts any perspective on things.. here's Chewie & Leia. (The cage looks boring I know. It's new as well.. this was their first night in there).

ahhhhhh I forgot that part haha...

Ok, next time I'll remember the vanilla on there... does anyone see this size difference as a problem?

I'm not an expert, but from what I can tell with my girls, what you described sounds pretty much normal. Their grooming can seem a bit... vigorous at times, and even rats that have lived together for ages will let out squeaks when they're being thoroughly groomed.

Sometimes they'll also give tugs on the back of the neck... but it's more of a "Come here, let me clean you" thing than an aggressive act.

Do what you think is best, the vanilla thing may help... just thought you should know that my first intros went pretty much as you've described, and everything worked out wonderfully with mine. (Edit: My little girls were bigger than the ones in your photos look, though... so I can see why you're nervous)

I'll give it a couple more days, and I'll try it again with the vanilla. I'd never forgive myself if something happened to the babies because I moved too soon.

Don't be too scared of that.  Hickey was kind of intense, but it was entirely my fault for moving too fast.  They'd been quarantined, and I introed them (I think) the third day I had them.  They did okay in the bathtub during a few visits, and stupid me put Hickey in the babies' cage with them.     That's when she cornered and bit one of the babies.  I was so stupid, and it makes me feel sick that one of them might have been killed.  Then I was so scared that I gave up, and my poor Hickey had to live without companions for six months.     I'm being much more careful with these little guys, and I'll be darned if I'll give up this time. 

I'd just take a step or two back for now--maybe go back to a day or so of the side-by-side cages, or switching cages for a while a few times a day. 

Thanks for the encouragement. Will post what happens during my next attempt.

Sounds incredibly normal.  You will see some pinning and some shrieking (girls do love to shriek), some grooming, etc. 

The fact that your girl would allow those little paws in her cage? Wow.  Most rats instinctually will bite another rat trying to get into their territory.  I think you could have a really good intro here.

Rats have to establish their dominance.  They have a very distinct pecking order.  To establish pecking order, they will pin down a subordinate, they will power groom (excessive vigorous grooming) and even will stand on someone's belly with their head out of the way of the protesting feet...the subbie eeps and squeaks in submission (okay, okay you're Alpha...i give!), and sometimes will groom the Alpha when pinned.  You might see a pin where the alpha has her mouth open resting on the other's body...just a warning to behave.  Its normal to see some nipping and mouthing on the back.  Whats NOT good is a puffball rat (poufy fur), teeth chattering, sidling sideways with head down...these are more aggressive signs.  A bit of poufy from the alpha is okay but not too much.

Just remember that poor Snootles is probably very lonely and you need to keep trying.  Those baby girls are the perfect age for intro's 

Here is Kismet at 5 weeks being introduced to 4 month old girls and older girls...you can see she's trying to dominate Megan as only babies think they can...

Here is when she gets pinned and "told off"



I let them work it out on their own (No Blood No Foul)...
And this is the end result

Xandria, that's especially encouraging for when I'll have to introduce to an older male in the future.  (It'll be a while, as my pair of boys are the newbies now and just babies.) 

I just happened to think the other day, as I was watching for poofy fur on Dana, that I have no idea what I'm going to do when the boys are older gents and I need to watch for agressive signs in them during intros.  They're naked, so there goes the most visible sign.

Rats fight other rats to drive them away, not usually bite to kill.  Most times the babies are the obnoxious ones and the adult just takes it until its time to teach the youngster some manners or what I call ratiquette.  What you saw is perfectly normal and you should just let it continue.  A good thing to do once you have the baby in the cage is to make a hide escape thing just for them.  I have used poster tubes cut into sections and part of the ends blocked off. Enough that baby could get in there but not the bigger rat.  I put these on all the levels and leave them for a week or 2.  Sometimes an adult will chase a baby (for being obnoxious) and then baby can dive in these hidey's and come out when the coast is clear.

How's it going for you, sp00by? 

I put them all together in the tub for the first time, covered in pudding and with a plate of oatmeal and green peas inside.  (I didn't have pudding, so I made some with water, cornstarch, vanilla, half a banana, and some splenda.)  They were not pleased and shook pudding everywhere.  Dana kept trying to leap out and put up such a fuss that I bathed her and put her back in the tub.

The boys approached her, but she was so obsessed with escape that she'd put out one hand and push them away.  They stood around the plate and ate some, and I put them back in their respective cages after at least 40 minutes.

Next time will be in the tub again, with some good foods and probably not covered in goop.

I introed a 1 year old boy to two around 2 month old boys. They were great about it.

I came up from swimming in our pool when I intro'd them. I allowed my towl to dry for the most part, then put it in the base of a big metal wash bin, hoping the strange smell of pool water would distract them. Then, I put in "strange" items for them to be distracted with, such as cardboard, toilet paper tubes, crumpled up paper, etc. I then put a big bowl of yougurt in the middle. I have a water based spray that cleans/deoderizes the rats and I put it all over them, so they smelled all the same and were wet and had to groom themselves. (Before I did this the babys were quarentied for 3 weeks then housed next to each other for a week, swaping cages every day.) I first put Pierre in and let him find the yougurt, then put Rupert and Daniel in together. They were really great about it, and I kept a spray bottle to break up fights. Please note that a FIGHT is when the rats are tumbling around and squeaking loudly, and will not come apart. Anything else should be left alone. They will scream at eachother and be aprehensive at first, but be patient. They didn't have any major fights and were basicaly great together. Then, I put all their stuff together in the big cage they were swaping in and out of, and put all ratties in the top level. This is when some fights occured, and screaming increased. This is normal, do not panic. I watched them for an hour or two, and dropped in on them every half hour for a few days after that. If you have a busy week day scheduel its best to do this on a weekend.  After about a week they will settle down and start to accepet eachother more and more, until they are good friends.  Playtime outside the cage is a great way for them to get to know eachother, as rats tend to get into situations where they need to climb over each other to get out. 

Good luck and keep us updated!

Awesome!  I'm glad it's going so well.

I've found that offering a couple plates of yummy foods and a wide, shallow dish for pea-fishing is great for getting them acclimated to one another without their even knowing it's happening.   Dana had never enjoyed it before, but she suddenly ran over and started churning up the water and snatching peas today.  One of the babies, Skinner, is great at it and will put his head under just up past his eyes and blow tiny bubbles.  He watched Dana and even seemed to adopt her technique.  Gollum, however, just gets as close to whomever is pea-fishing as possible and tries to snatch the loot.     He's a bit obnoxious in general and keeps taking flying leaps onto Dana's back in his excitement.  She only got a little peeved during the last meeting, so I ended it before it could take a bad turn.