Medication questions metronidazole, respiratory infection, help!

[zooshe]

Hi there,

Does anyone know anything about metronidazole? My rat's prescription says to only administer once a day/once every 24 hours, but I'm not sure if this is the norm. And does anyone know how long it takes for metronidazole to be effective in upper respiratory infections?

I'm really worried about my rat as she has an upper respiratory infection. She's a little better today after the first dose. She sounds less like runny mucus and more like the mucus is "airing out", you know like when you are getting better from a cold but you still have mucus?  But still she is making that anxious vocal noise when she's breeathing harder.

She was prescribed metronidazole because the baytril wasn't working AND she was already on Doxycycline previously for another condition (was taking in conjunction with the Baytril for a day before the metronidazole). We assumed she had built up a tolerance to both at this point.

Also if anyone knows how to steam or mist a rat effectively please let me know. I haven't had luck using this method to help my rat because i can't seem to concentrate the steam enough to have any effect.

Thanks!
zooshe, rat lover

[RascalRatties]

If you're looking to steam, you can always run the hot water in your bathtub and sit down with them (not in the tub, obviously, but in a chair in the bathroom). I wouldn't recommend more than 7-10 minutes (depending on how hot is it) because you don't want to over heat your rat. Most people just take their rats in the bathroom after they have showered. I used to nebulize my rat by buying a really big plastic storage bin, placing the rat inside (usually with some toys or a house to hide in) and letting the nebulizer run inside of it. (put a few holes in it or lift the lid every minute so they get fresh air. I also bought a small humidifier and placed it a few feet from the cage. It made the room feel much better and less dry.

As for the medication, I've never used it. Only baytril with doxy as well as sulfatrim on it's own. The rat who was on baytril and doxy never recovered (although his URI was very severe and I think we caught it too late) and we put my other rat on the sulfatrim as a precaution so he would not catch it.

[scout]

Did a little reading up on metronidazole (trade name Flagyl) and I'm confused why it would be prescribed for an upper respiratory infection. It's a drug meant for anaerobic bacteria (bacteria that live without oxygen). I wouldn't expect to find those bacteria in the lungs. Chloramphenicol is another drug that works well for anaerobic bacteria and I have used that with good results in rats that developed stubborn URIs. So it's a good thing I'm not the vet! If she shows improvement in about 3 days, I'd keep with it. If she's not showing improvement, definitely call your vet to let him/her know.

It is administered every 24 hours, so that much is right. Here's a link to more information about the drug:

http://ratguide.com/meds/antiinfectives/metronidazole_flagyl.php

[zooshe]

Rascal Ratties...thanks for the steam idea by putting them in a bin together...and for the timing on steaming rats!

[zooshe]

Scout,

Thanks for taking the time to look this up and confirming the dosage timing....it was hard to find anything on this metronidazole...I had no idea it was called Flagyl.

The emergency vet I took her to yesterday is more of a general practitioner vet and she said it was an alternative to the broad spectrum Baytril and would kill gram positive and gram negative bacteria? Which I suppose the upper respiratory could generate from one of these, I'm not sure.

She saw her regular vet on Friday morning but she declined quickly when the Baytril wasn't working on Saturday and that's when I rushed her to the emergency vet. So I'm sorta on pins and needles watching her if the  metronidazole doesn't work cause i don't want her to get to the point where she can't breathe at all.

Thanks

[scout]

Here's some more information for treating really stubborn URIs:

http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php

[holly238]

I, too, am a little confused about using metronidazole for treating an URI. I'm a vet tech, and we typically only use metronidazole for treating bacteria which cause intestinal problems, like coccidia and giardia. These are confirmed via fecal testing. I suppose the veterinarian has a basis for prescribing it, but we never have at our clinic.

We usually use Baytril (the injectable form given orally) in conjunction with Cefadroxil (Cefa Drops) for URIs.

Let me know if it works well, and I'll do some research on its use for future situations.

[Bellaratta]

 ..... metronidazole ....   to be effective in upper respiratory infections? ....
 

I think the key word here is upper, which would probably mean he is treating a suspected sinus infection rather than a lung issue like pneumonia. If that is the case then Flagyl would not be inappropriate.

(I didn't use the full  name because I can't spell it!  Actually I am not sure I can even SAY it! )

Bella

[RascalRatties]

If she shows improvement in about 3 days, I'd keep with it. If she's not showing improvement, definitely call your vet to let him/her know.

It's true, if you dont see signs of improvement within a few days, more than likely it's not helping. Most rats will bounce back to normal after a few days. If not, then it's a good idea to look at different medications and treatments before the URI gets any worse.

[zooshe]

Thanks everyone,

Even though improvement seems slow, she doesn't have any mucus in her chest when I listen (though when I tried to listen before on Friday I couldn't hear anything though her nose was stuffed more than it is now). So yes, I guess it's definately located in the upper region, and perhaps not the lungs? She'll still stuffy but her vocalizations aren't as loud as before.

If she is the same in a day or two I will take her in again to see the vet.

She is loving the extra attention I am giving her!
Bellaratta, you get 500 points for using a rattie emoticon!

 

[zooshe]

I looked at her tonight and really she seems ok, but mucus in the nose plus some vocal whimpering, and it's the same as it was on Sunday. I' m having doubts that a vet can do anything about this other than switch meds again. She needs something more.

It's almost like when a human gets a cold and it's not bacterial, it's viral...and you can't do anything but wait it out.

I am going to keep giving her metronidazole (which seems to keep her from going in decline) but I am going to try administering colostrum in a product called transfer factor if i can get my hands on it tomorrow.

Has anyone had luck using this product to boost rats' immune systems or can anyone suggest a better product? Or does anyone know about other holistic/probiotic supplements that help rats fight URI?

Thanks

[lilspaz68]

Can I ask why the addition of the doxy to the baytril was only for 1 day?  They are a great 1-2 combo together and I would think that they would've been your best bet in this case.  Is she on flagyl alone or along with the baytril?

[zooshe]

lilspaz68,

My rat she had started to get bumblefoot last year and she had been on sulfasomething ( i can't remember the name), then baytril, then doxycycline. The meds seemed to help keep the bumblefoot from increasing in size so i kept her on medicine without realizing she could build up a tolerance.

When she went to the regular vet on Friday, she was already on Doxycycline. Then she got a prescription for Baytril and the vet wanted her to take both. Then on Saturday she seemed to be in trouble to I took her to the emergency vet and that is when she got prescribed the metronidazole and that vet said to stop the other meds.

I was going to ask about bumblefoot in another topic for my rats (Ihave two) but if you have any information here that would be great!

[lilspaz68]

ahhh...silly emergency vet.

Do you still have the doxy and the baytril?

for bumblefoot you can use baytril as your ab and get yourself some blu-kote online or at a farm/tack store.  Its messy and stains clothing like you wouldn't believe but it might dry up the bumblefoot.

How bad is the bumblefoot you are treating?

[zooshe]

Horrified!!!

I came home today and she was breathing heavy...you know where the chest caves in and out? Her fur is well groomed, she's eating, but she's lost 35 grams....(my scale is wonky and not like the one at the vet's so there may be a discrepancy but she weighed 455 grams on Friday on the vet's scale and 420 on mine tonight).

So... I called the emergency facility and another vet was on staff...turns out she said for me to keep the metronidazole and put her back on the baytril and doxy...sheesh...i'm pissed about the first emergency vet who told me to take her off of baytril and doxy... maybe she wouldn't have gotten worse, I dunno.

I gave her all three tonight with a colostrum and olive leaf supplement in yogurt...

lilspaz68...
What do you mean by ab? I actually have blu-kote, but I was afraid to use it as every online posting that said it was successful, but also their rats died...even though they may have died from a pre-existing condition, I didn't wanna risk it. I've been soaking their feet for 5 to 10 minutes a day in a Nolvasan type solution which keeps it at bay...when I don't it flares up. When I take them off of meds it flares up. I also put 100% tea tree oil on the bumbles but I don't know if it's having any effect at all or not. I do it anyways just in case.

The bumbles are very small, red dots on one rat(who never gets sick or has problems), and the other (who is sick now) has them the size of hmm, only reference I can think of is a dose of .15ml liquid sized drop cause that's the size of the bumbles she has and also the dose size of the Baytril. Honestly all I think about these days is meds and rats, rats and meds, sheesh!

[lilspaz68]

Horrified!!!

I came home today and she was breathing heavy...you know where the chest caves in and out? Her fur is well groomed, she's eating, but she's lost 35 grams....(my scale is wonky and not like the one at the vet's so there may be a discrepancy but she weighed 455 grams on Friday on the vet's scale and 420 on mine tonight).

So... I called the emergency facility and another vet was on staff...turns out she said for me to keep the metronidazole and put her back on the baytril and doxy...sheesh...i'm pissed about the first emergency vet who told me to take her off of baytril and doxy... maybe she wouldn't have gotten worse, I dunno.

I gave her all three tonight with a colostrum and olive leaf supplement in yogurt...

lilspaz68...
What do you mean by ab? I actually have blu-kote, but I was afraid to use it as every online posting that said it was successful, but also their rats died...even though they may have died from a pre-existing condition, I didn't wanna risk it. I've been soaking their feet for 5 to 10 minutes a day in a Nolvasan type solution which keeps it at bay...when I don't it flares up. When I take them off of meds it flares up. I also put 100% tea tree oil on the bumbles but I don't know if it's having any effect at all or not. I do it anyways just in case.

The bumbles are very small, red dots on one rat(who never gets sick or has problems), and the other (who is sick now) has them the size of hmm, only reference I can think of is a dose of .15ml liquid sized drop cause that's the size of the bumbles she has and also the dose size of the Baytril. Honestly all I think about these days is meds and rats, rats and meds, sheesh!

Good to hear she's on the baytril/doxy...they should help her, poor baby E-vets often don't know what they are doing with our furry friends.   If you want to double check the dosages, just PM me with the concentration of your meds.

abs = antibiotics

Most of the rats died from pre-existing conditions because they were much older, which is often the case for when it shows up.  Sounds like your bumblefoot cases are very mild.  Often they will not be cured but I found that blu-kote painted on topically dried up the bumble and started healing it.  I have tried it on 2 rats now but they were both very old and both passed soon after I noticed definite improvements.  Blu-kote is just an antiseptic topical and has nothing to do with any rats death, just the death of your clothes

For bumblefoot you should have them on soft bedding (fleece if possible).  Keep the cage levels as clean as you can.

Here is Mattie's feet when I got her


Here she is a week or so later after the Blu-kote.  Its definitely smaller and flatter.


Mattie sadly had a couple of strokes due to an overdose of Ivermectin given to her by a "rat vet" just before I got her.

[zooshe]

lilspaz68...

Hey thanks for the bumblefoot info and photos. I didn't have time to thank you earlier because things got worse with my rat who was sick.

I had her hospitalized for over a week and she just kept declining. Nebulizing, oxygen, different meds, they all weren't working, maybe helping temporarily. I asked many different vets and emergency places...I even took her to a vet who is well known for her rat experience, but even she would have done the same treatments.

So, it went from her upper respiratory to her lungs and she was really struggling. And then I was put up with the dilemma whether to put her down so she wouldn't suffer anymore or to bring her home and let her be with her sister and me but stuggle and eventually die suffocating.

As soon as I decided the former.... and I was waiting in the room to see her....well she had just about died at the same time. Like she waited til I said it was ok in my heart.

Everyone loved her and anyone who didn't know her thought she was amazing too. I'll miss her alot and now my remaning rat is also missing her. I'm not sure if I want to get another rat as a companion for her or not. This is really hard.