Resp Issues?, Beni the 1/2 wild rat (Fortekor & Lasix added tonight)

[lilspaz68]

Beni my little 20 month old remaining neutered boy Wildling (1/2 wild, 1/2 domestic) is following in his brother's footsteps.

Ortiz was let go at 13 months old and now Beni has developed the same symptoms.  Genetics?

Ortiz was able to be medicated through the bars of the cage and zithro/baytril did absolutely nothing for him (Beni won't touch anything through the bars).  Ortiz got thinner, and his costal breathing (breathing through the abdomen) got worse and worse until he started having attacks and going blue from cyanosis (blue extremities due to lack of oxygen).  I tried to get lasix into him to see if it was CHF but he almost died as I medicated him.    I seriously thought I had killed him.

Here is Ortiz's video's which is basically Beni fast forward 7 months)




I had Ortiz pts the following morning.   I cannot take these guys to the vet, even my experienced vet has thanked me for telling her I wouldn't bring them in, I think Beni and Ortiz's neuter was enough for her.  So its all long range in-cage treatment.

I am unable to handle Beni because he almost stops breathing/is unable to breathe he gets sooo stressed (and he doesn't get over it, he jsut keeps going on and on until I put him back and even then it takes him ages to recover).  I haven't had the Wildlings out of their cage in weeks  because Beni would panic if they weren't there and he cannot come out himself...sigh.  I have been carefully wiping down the cage (2 R-680's stacked on each other) with vinegar and water, and removing the aspen, and wiping the bottom pan, just not putting it in the tub for a scrub.  Beni stays in the top levels all the time.

A wonderful woman has wonderfully sent me an asthma care package and I have the bonding sack and inhaler nearby just in case he has an attack I witness. At least I don't have to worry about inhalation pneumonia with that.

What would you do? 

ETA:  I have emailed my vet with the vids/background for advice/suggestions.

[Lise]

Honestly Shelagh, I would take him in to be PTS.

You know that he isn't going to get better... and even trying to do anything just stresses him out more, so you can't help him that way.  So personally I would let him go to a better place to play with Ortiz.

[lilspaz68]

Honestly Shelagh, I would take him in to be PTS.

You know that he isn't going to get better... and even trying to do anything just stresses him out more, so you can't help him that way.  So personally I would let him go to a better place to play with Ortiz.

Yeah thats the conclusion I have come to myself.

So far if he's left with his cagemates he's moderately happy since they cuddle up and sleep with him, and they are not harrassing him like they did with Ortiz.  But you know how it is, it feels just terrible to not be able to do anything, and every once in awhile I just have to ask.   

I will take him in once his bad days outweigh his good.

[Lise]

You did a wonderful thing just by giving these guys a home.  And a home for their entire life no less... you never gave up on them.  So I would say you did something great for him, already.

[Marybelle]

If you can't force meds into him, and he won't take them through the bars, Lise is right.  It's a sucky decision to make, and worse to feel so helpless.  I'm so sorry.  *hugs*  You did great things for all these kids, though.  They've had a life with you that they wouldn't have had elsewhere.  A life lived on their own terms.

[lilspaz68]

Well I got my hands on some Furosemide (Lasix) and some Benazapril (Fortekor) today.   Beni had a downturn last night and I was sure he was going to slip away on me but he rallied and stabilized again. 

I had to decide on just one of the meds because I only have a short window of opportunity before he will gasp/inhale the meds while I am syringing it into him.  My heart is saying its his heart, so Fortekor it was. I just gave him .07 cc's of it just now.  I was wondering how long before I *might* see an effect?  And I was thinking of a 3 day diagnostic dosing, is that long enough to know?  Then I will try the lasix.

I have my fingers crossed.   

[Lise]

Lasix would do more... if there is a fluid accumulation hindering his breathing.

Fortekor just (in a nutshell) stops the body from re-uptaking as much water... but it isn't a diuretic so it doesn't flush out any accumulations of fluid that are already there.

For heart disease we start the animal on both lasix & fortekor.  And the lasix probably does the most right off the bat because it removes that fluid that is causing the immediate breathing problems.  The fortekor is for maintenance of the condition.

The lasix is the better diagnostic tool because you can also see it working after only a few hours.

Does that make sense?

[lilspaz68]

Lasix would do more... if there is a fluid accumulation hindering his breathing.

Fortekor just (in a nutshell) stops the body from re-uptaking as much water... but it isn't a diuretic so it doesn't flush out any accumulations of fluid that are already there.

For heart disease we start the animal on both lasix & fortekor.  And the lasix probably does the most right off the bat because it removes that fluid that is causing the immediate breathing problems.  The fortekor is for maintenance of the condition.

The lasix is the better diagnostic tool because you can also see it working after only a few hours.

Does that make sense?

Totally makes sense!!

I am going to attempt the lasix now...its more fluid which means more chance of aspiration.  I just want him to feel better...wish me luck!!

ETA:  It's in and he swallowed it, I have to grab him and quickly pop it into his mouth before he goes into a full-blown gasping attack. 
Do you use the lasix and fortekor together until things are improved and then doing maintenance with the fortekor once the initial crisis is over and you are just trying to control the condition?

[lilspaz68]

No miracles today but a definite easing.  He is much happier and relaxed, and even let me stroke him from head to tail as he lay on top of his Dearpie Doubledecker.  I felt his feet and tail and they were warm.  He even let me scrub his cheek and then he turned his head and started to seriously lick me.   

[Addicted2Rats]

That second video with the open-mouthed gasping is the most heart-wrenching video.    I really hope that he either starts feeling much better very soon or you decide to help ease his misery by having him put to sleep.  Poor guy!  Good thoughts going out to you!

Deb

[lilspaz68]

That second video with the open-mouthed gasping is the most heart-wrenching video.    I really hope that he either starts feeling much better very soon or you decide to help ease his misery by having him put to sleep.  Poor guy!  Good thoughts going out to you!

Deb

that video is of his brother Ortiz at 13 months, I took him in to be pts the next day.  Beni is actually doing much better than that right now