I find it so strange how people can ignore the fact that you might be "saving" one rat from the feeder bin, but you're also paying money to reward the people putting the rat there, and paying to put SEVERAL MORE directly in its place.  People like to criticise those who don't consider buying from a pet store "rescuing", because "oh it matters to that one!!!"  Well, it also matters to the several more that get bred in cruelty, raised in cruelty, delivered in cruelty, and sold in the same way, funded by YOUR money.  Just because some of us are able to think of those UNSEEN little eyes suffering at the rodent mills, being euthanized in shelters, or sitting at overflowing rescues for lack of homes instead of the ones directly before us at the pet store where we "just went in for bedding!", doesn't make us heartless or uncaring.

If people want to buy a feeder rat or "pet" rat from the pet store, fine, that's your choice, and if you are morally ok with it, great for you.  But don't kid yourselves it's some kind of heroic act or any form of true rescuing, unless you got that rat for free.  The bottom line is who and what you support with your money, no matter HOW small the amount.  I'm sure someone will pipe up that it makes no difference and the feeder/pet industry will always continue and blah de blah blah, but that's just apathy and lame excuses.  It sure makes a hell of a lot of difference to me and my rescue when people choose to "rescue" a pet store rat rather than adopt, who then ends up pregnant and has 15 babies which then take up 15 more homes more rats in my rescue could have had, which then prevents me from picking up the next batch of rats slated for euthanasia at the shelter because I have no room for them.

I think feeder animals that are raised 100% behind the scenes to be sold as frozen feeders are kept in worse conditions than almost all live feeders.

No, let me try that again in all caps to get it through your heads.

FEEDER ANIMALS THAT ARE RAISED 100% BEHIND THE SCENES OF THE PUBLIC TO BE SOLD AS FROZEN FEEDERS ARE KEPT IN WORST CONDITIONS THAN ALMOST ALL LIVE FEEDERS THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE IN THE STORE.

At least live feeders have a chance of getting homes.

I don't understand how people can have children of their own instead of adopting, but that doesn't mean that I get to criticize their choices or judge them to be somehow morally inferior because they choose to have biological children instead of adopting. That would be absolutely ridiculous: its none of my business, and I don't know the circumstances.

Most of the rescue rats that I've come into contact with have been pet store rats before they were rescue rats, so like it or not, the only way that loop is broken is by going to a breeder in the first place. Frankly, I think until people understand that pets aren't disposable, there will have to be rescues. Its much more productive to educate people on how to properly care for a pet than to argue about where they get it. Additionally, rescue animals, from my experience, tend to have a much higher rate of health and temperament problems: unless its a very cooperative owner surrender, most of the time you aren't going to get much information. Buying from a breeder or a pet store, at least you know the challenges you're going to be facing.

Additionally, not everyone is going to have a rescue or a breeder near them. It's two hours to the nearest rescue from where I am, and that's with good traffic, which would require me to miss a day of classes or work. The nearest breeder is, to my knowledge, over four hours away. With gas as it is, its unreasonable to expect people, particularly those of us who are students or are unemployed, to drive hours and hours for an animal that we don't, ultimately, know much about.

Its nice to take the moral high ground, but at some point, that high ground falls apart. Yeah, buying things at pet stores supports the system. Buying things at Wal-Mart supports employee mistreatment. Buying a car supports pollution. Buying make-up supports animal cruelty. Buying make up that isn't tested on animals still supports animal cruelty, because most people aren't going to know which brand you're buying--its just make-up to the vast majority of people who see you, and make up is tested on animals. Going to the movies supports enforced gender rolls based upon the ideologies present in the movies shown at that theater. Going to churches supports religious intolerance because some churches are intolerant. Just because some pet stores are bad doesn't mean that all of them are, and supporting one might be endorsing the system, but its also supporting that one good pet store. Extend your argument beyond this one issue, and you'll see how ridiculous it quickly becomes. 

I'm not saying doing get rescue: all of my animals have been rescue. All of my animals have had fairly severe behavior problems because of it. If someone chooses not to do rescue, you don't have a right do judge or impute their morality. Attacking someone's moral character is not cool.

Our owner surrender dog (directly to me) has some of the worst health problems known.  Our shelter mutt is as healthy (and as large) as a horse.  Guess I can't tell you about how a dog is if I get them directly, because I'm not doing that.  As for behavior problems.  Hrrrmm.  Hard to say.  My two girls were the extremes on rats - and they were sisters.  Hayley was the sweetest, nicest, calmest female ever.  Coco was a vicious, nasty tempered biter.


Errm, 3 hours for one person I just drove rats to.  You may not have to drive, maybe rescue has someone who can or will take the drive.  I'm sorry, but I hate that excuse.  How many rattie trains got set up to get Ojai rats out and about?  Or how many to get MRR ratties to NYC?  Or to get any number of rats anywhere else than where they are?  

Most of my rats are second or third hand, but it's a safe bet that they came from pet stores originally, and probably as feeders. In my experience well socialized rats from stores are just as lovable as rats from a good breeder. However, if the rat is older when they are purchased they can be a challenge. I'm working with some 4-6 month old feeder bin girls right now and it's frustrating sometimes. One, whom I believe to be closer to 6-8 months has been here for over two weeks and still won't even come out of her igloo when I'm in the room.

I have purchased two rats from the store where I work in the past. I felt guilty about it both times, but I didn't love the rats any less. I've found that there is almost never a good reason to buy from a pet store. Whether or not there are breeders or rescues around you doesn't matter. Call the local shelters, tell them you'll take in rats that are surrendered. Many shelters don't have the capacity to deal with rats and if they don't have someone to call when rats are surrendered they are just euthanized. Check Craigs List, Kijiji, Hoobly, all those. You'll find lots of "kids don't want it anymore", "moving, can't take it", "don't have the time for it anymore", "snake wouldn't eat it". There are plenty of easy ways to save rats without supporting the industry that condems them.

Here it's actually required.  No comments on enforcement of any animal welfare laws here as we are one of the big 7 puppy mill states. 

That's the nice thing to say.  There are days I can't believe what people find out of places here - I think Petco is bad and evil (11 ferrets in a hex tank, mice so full they can't touch bedding), then I see the others.  Sigh.

Oh yeah - MRR is Mainely Rat Rescue.  CCRR is Capital City Rat Rescue.  Ojai rats was a BIG rescue out of Ojai, CA, and the hundreds of rats got trained fairly far out.  There are a bunch of other rescues - I think most things here, if it ends in -RR, it's a Rat Rescue

Honestly, if someone can't take the time to learn about the pet they are getting and what options they have in getting said pet, they shouldn't have the animal. Twenty minutes is NOT enough time to learn about owning rats.

I lurked on here a while and found a rescue nearly half way across the county that someone had offered to transport for. I only had to drive an hour or so to get them. Did it consume my whole life finding that out? No. But now two boys who needed homes have a home, and I haven't given the local chains the space to obtain more rats to mistreat.

Yes I once went to a pet store and the pet section was so hot I bought the few mice and rats they had there just to save them from the heat.

Anyway guys you are all great for saving rats from uncertain death by being used as food etc. I didn't want to cause a stirrup with this toping and was just wondering if what I was doing was right or wrong. If I had local rescues near me be rest assured I would be adopting rats from their as well. I would like to save and rescue rats from wherever I can be it petco or rescue etc. It does not matter to me that Petco is making money or replacing the feeder rats I purchase with other ones. I am just happy that I am able to save the rats I can and that I gain great pets in the process. I have one room in my home devoted to my pet rats and am always willing to take in an unwanted pet in need of shelter.

I hope to make many new friends on this site and would like to thank you for welcoming me and my rats in.

Blackthorn, have I mentioned lately that I adore you?
Here bloody here.

I'd MUCH rather give money to Kaia or Olds Gal or any of the other wonderful folks on this board who run legitimate rescues.
I don't believe in buying companion animals.  It perpetuates overpopulation, funds practices I'm ethically opposed to and adds to the number of animals suffering.  It also perpetuates the idea that animals commodities and objects to be bought and sold like widgets instead of living beings. How does this forethough and active ethical consideration make me cold hearted?  All my kids are rescues, either oops litters, shelter kids, or from actual rescue facilities. I just also get my feeders second hand.

It's hard to walk past those eyes.  I know that.  It's why I do NOT go into stores that sell animals.  Period.
I was willing to fly my MaeMae in from Michigan (she was one of the kiddos at HVRR).  If you really want a rat, you'll jump through hoops to get them home with you.  And there are always people here who are willing to jump with you to help. 

and *hugs* to lilspaz, I hated seeing you have to make the post, hon.
I'm so sorry about your girl.  Rest assured no one here who is at all familiar with you would ever doubt your love of ratties.
I know I always love that you refuse to support the ongoing cycle of abusive mills while still helping so many of the forgotten, unloved rats out there.  Thank you.

Thanks also to Blackthorn, Olds Gal and all the others who run rescues and run themselves ragged cleaning up other folks messes.  You guys are amazing. *hugs*

Melissa