Neurotic rat--should he be a loner?

[zoocrew26]

Alrighty, so i got one of my rats, Payton, from a feeder tank a few months ago to be a friend to my other loner, Gideon. Things went well at first, because Payton was so young and Gideon wasn't threatened by him. Then once Payton reached sexual maturity, Gideon started terrorizing him. Not good. Payton was trusting and loving, UNTIL Gideon started terrorizing him (Gid would trap him on top of a house 24/7, and bite him, i would have to bring Payton his food and water because Gideon wouldn't let him down, and Payton would scream all night).
I took Gideon out of the cage, and gave him some chill time in a cage by himself so he could regroup. I tried intros about 2 weeks later with 3 of my younger boys, and Payton was okay at first, but then he would start screaming whenever any other rats went near him. (And my other rats that he had playtime with at the time were very gentle and easy-going, they never did ANYTHING bad to him--with the exception of Ryder who sometimes got a bit bossy, but Ryder got put into a different group anyways, and so he stopped having playtime with Payton.)
I had put Payton in a biiiig cage, because i felt bad that he didn't get along with anyone, but that just made it worse. He became even more insecure, and every little thing freaked him out.
I put him back into a much smaller cage that he LOVES. (I don't know why he prefers smaller over bigger... ) When he is out for playtime every night, he just hides, and if any rat or if i go near him or DARE touch him, he screams and runs away.
I don't know what to do. I feel so bad for him!! I don't think neutering would do anything, being that he's not overly dominant, he's just neurotic and just is a scaredy-rat. He is soooo good when he is inside of his cage, and he lets me pet him and even take him out, as long as i hold him right by his cage, and he'll play with me inside of his cage.
But he just spazzes out whenever he is out and away from his cage.

As of now, i have tried having him live with a variety of my other rats, but he freaks out, so he has been living alone for quite some time.

Does anyone have any ideas on what i should do??

[FrauleinAsh]

Hi there ... I didnt see anything abt how old payton is. If he's young, then I would definitely try some trust training to get him used to *you*. If hes on the older side then he might just be set in his ways, but just trying to attempt some trust training wouldnt hurt anything, its just that it works better with younger rats in most cases.

As for the other rats, this is definitely a unique case. It seems u have *several* ratties, and he gets along with NONE of them! I'm assuming you've tried intros with each of your other rats individually? Payton might be one of those rare cases where a rat just .. doesnt get along with anyone. I've had one rat like that in the past, and through trust training she became a bit better. I could hold her, give her treats, and pet her ... but she never stopped feeling tense and looking a bit nervous. She would never come to me on her own. However, as time went on these issues became less and less apparent. I think rats just naturally calm down when they're older.

I also had another rat that wouldnt get along with *any* other rat, the behavior started around age 1 and he spent the rest of his life solo, but I would spend enormous amounts if time with him. He was an extremely happy rat! We put his cage on a couch and left the door open .. and that was "his couch". He loved having all that space to himself and was always close to his "people".

I had another rat who was the same way with not getting along w/any of the others, and he had to go solo as well. However, over time .. he became more and more lonely and started to change. We noticed his sadness and thought of doing intros with him agn, and there were never any problems with him being with the rest of the boys.

All rats are so very different. If you got him from a pet store, theres no telling what traumatic events he has gone through in his past. In some cases, the events are so frightening for a rat that they never really become "normal" rats. This might be whats going on with Payton. Thats why  getting him to trust at least YOU is very important since you can keep him company. Payton certainly wouldnt be the first rat on earth to have to live alone, Have you thought abt trying to introduce him to a baby rat? Babies as far less threatening to other rats, maybe ths would help?

Thats all Ive got! I hope there is *something* helpful in this monstrous reply I've sent, lol. Much luck to you, and kisses n scritches for Payton and your other fuzzies

~@sh

[Scubbs]

Actually, I think neutering would do a lot in that situation.  Nervous rats usually calm down a lot after being neutered.  Sounds like Gideon needs a snipping too  :/

[Blackthorn]

I think neutering could help a lot.  This is my favorite site for explaining what neutering will and won't fix.

http://www.ratballs.com/RatTails/Tails103.html

[zoocrew26]

Well, i decided awhile back that Gideon was going to get neutered as soon as i can get the money for it, because he is your typical alpha-male-i'm-going-to-kick-the-crap-out-of-anyone-who-comes-near-me rat. lol. Gideon is about 7 or 8 months old, and has been living by himself for most of his life, due to the fact that he does not get along with ANYONE.
But then Payton, i wasn't too sure about. But after hearing what you guys had to say, what have i got to lose, right? Payton is only 5 months old, i got him when he was 5 weeks old.
And yes, i have tried intro'ing him, as well as Gideon, to ALL of my other rats, with the exception of my babies, who i am not letting get near them, because Gideon and Payton could/would hurt them.
One of my other boys, Ryley, is also due for a snip job. I just had to isolate him a couple of days ago, because he very seriously injured his roommate. 

[Scubbs]

Rats like Gideon need to be neutered relatively quickly.

[zoocrew26]

Oh, and i do socialize with Payton everyday. Like i said earlier, he is fine when he is in his cage and i am petting him, he LOVES attention then. Even if i have him out and am holding him right by his cage, he is still fine. But the thing is, he freaks out when he's with other rats. He will hide, and he will scream and run if i try and touch him.
And he's also completely anal about what cage he is in. He likes this one cage, that's pretty small. It's only big enough for 2 rats. But he loves it. I tried putting him in a big cage, that was big enough for up to 7 or 8 rats, because i felt bad for him being alone, but he completely spazzed out and went all neurotic on me again.
So i don't know what's up with that.

[zoocrew26]

Rats like Gideon need to be neutered relatively quickly.

I know..i've been trying, but everytime i go to get him a vet appt, something else comes up with another one of my rats, and there goes my emergency vet money.
I'm hoping to get the 3 of them neutered sometime within the next month. I have 6 girlies waiting to meet them! (A mom, who is about 4 months old, and then her daughters who are going to turn 2 months old tomorrow.)