Doxycycline? PLus new question: lipoma

[LastEchoes]

My boy has been kind of sneezy for the last 3 or so days. I wrote it off at first to sudden weather changes (it went from 95+ to 65-70) but it progressed from him having sneezing attacks just in the morning to sneezing on and off through out the day. I haven't seen any discharge around nose or anything like that. He's eating like a pig and very energetic. I dug out my stethoscope and listened to his lungs and they sound perfectly clear but his breathing itself(as in nasal) sounds TINY bit congested...It's barely noticeable. He keeps rubbing his cute little nose. =(
I have doxy on hand, but I'm wondering if that's strong enough or I should take him to a vet to get Baytril. Honestly, I don't really want to spend $100 on a vet visit right now, but if doxy isn't considered strong enough then I guess I'll have to.
Try a course of doxy or go straight for baytril? Opinions?

[Scubbs]

Sounds like an upper respiratory infection.

Honestly, I find that doxy is best in conjunction with other meds, like baytril.  By itself, it doesn't really do much of anything, at least not in my experience.  I'd just take him to the vet, personally.

[ickybana5]

All four of my girls responded to doxy, but I've also heard people say it didn't help at all.  Also, how old is your supply of doxy?  The stuff is light sensitive, so if it is very old, it is likely to be inneffective anyway.  A lot of vets (if you have a good one) will just write out a prescription without a visit if the symptoms you describe sound like a URI *edit* I meant this as in your vet has seen your rat before for a URI and will probably ask you for the symptoms, and if they sound like the URI he has been in for before, there shouldn't be a problem with prescribing again *end edit*, or if they have seen you often before.  Oh, and never put the stuff in their water.  My vet told me to do this and my rats almost died of dehydration since it tastes so nasty.  Give with a needleless syringe or in a bit of jam.  You will have to be careful with dosing though, if you give it in food.  Anyway, you probably already knew most of this stuff, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in anyway.  Best of luck and I hope your boy feels better!


*edit* please read this carefully and see if I truly told you to do anything illegal

[LastEchoes]

All four of my girls responded to doxy, but I've also heard people say it didn't help at all.  Also, how old is your supply of doxy?  The stuff is light sensitive, so if it is very old, it is likely to be inneffective anyway.  A lot of vets (if you have a good one) will just write out a prescription without a visit if the symptoms you describe sound like a URI, or if they have seen you often before.  Oh, and never put the stuff in their water.  My vet told me to do this and my rats almost died of dehydration since it tastes so nasty.  Give with a needleless syringe or in a bit of jam.  You will have to be careful with dosing though, if you give it in food.  Anyway, you probably already knew most of this stuff, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in anyway.  Best of luck and I hope your boy feels better!

The doxy isn't old and has been kept properly. As for writing Rx without seeing the rat...that's illegal...at least in my state(although im pretty sure it's true for all states)..and a vet, especially a good one, would never do that.. The fact that I've been a client of their clinic for 7 years doesn't matter, it's still illegal. I guess I'll just make an appointment...better make sure meds work than try something that might not do anything.

[LastEchoes]

Another question. Since I'll be taking him to a vet, I'll be discussing the tumor removal surgery he'll be having in the future. (two days ago I found a very small tumor on my boy, and he's barely over a year old!). So since he's going to go under.....Is it worth neutering him while at it? I know for females there are great advantages to being fixed in terms of reducing mammary tumors and the such.....Does neutering reduce chance of tumors in males??

[Scubbs]

Absolutely!  Neutering him while he's already under for something else is a great idea.  That's one less time he has to go under anesthetic, and less recovery time    Hopefully you can get the tumor removed soon - it's best to do so as soon as they're sighted.  Less costly for you, less invasive to the rattie.  I'm not sure if it reduces tumors in males, but it does cease the possibility of testicular cancer, and I've heard it helps with penis plugs later in life and paraphimosis.

[ickybana5]

LastEchos,

In some cases, regarding some drugs, this is illegal, but I don't think it's illegal in this case... especially if you have seen the vet before for the same thing.  It's like filling a prescription. I've gotten a prescription from a doctor before for a urinary tract infection over the phone, without an appointment, because I was in a lot of pain and the clinic was not open.  I filled it at my local Safeway pharmacy and it was perfectly legal, even though I had never had that prescription before *edit* this is merely a point to show that doctors have done more than just refills legally.  I am not suggesting you get a prescription for something your rat has not had before, but I presume since you have Doxy, that you have been in for this before, so that's fine *end edit*. I'm a med student, so I think I am somewhat qualified to speak about this. People can get certain prescription drugs over the internet legally, so it doesn't seem like a little doxy is going to be a big deal.  If it's legal for humans, it surely is for pets.  Now, if the drug was something like a barbiturate that has a high potetial of abuse, an appointment would be necessary, but I doubt that there are any doxycycline dealers out there looking to get their hands on that stuff    More than likely, your vet just doesn't want to lose the money he/she would make if you had to go in and see them in their office.  It sounds mean, but vet clinics are businesses too. 

At any rate, as long as the vet agrees to it (which some don't do because it means they won't make money off of you) and the symptoms you describe are without a doubt the condition for which the drug is sought (by this I mean that it could not be any other condition which the medicine would not be effective for,) AND you don't need any diagnostic tests done in order to rule out other conditions, it is perfectly legal.  There are circumstances under which such an act is illegal, but in this case, I don't see why it would be.  I did not mean to offend you with my comment, I was just trying to help. Though if you want to get replies to your posts, you should probably treat the people who are trying to help you a little bit more politely.   I hope everything goes well for you and that your boy makes a full recovery.

[ickybana5]

Oh, and what IS illegal is re-using prescriptions from different visits without re-filling.   At least it is for humans, but most people do it all the time.  This is because of the legal implications of a patient using an expired drug and having side effects and also because of the potential for abuse.  Just thought you might want to know if you are so concerned over legality. 

[LastEchoes]

Icky, this thread isnt about legal aspects of Rx, but I work in medical field and trust me...It IS illegal to do what you described (repeat Rx without being seen). It's illegal for both doctors AND vets, even if it's not a control substance.

Now, in other news.....
I just came back from vet and I got my baytril. Sadly, they didn't have any of the flavored stuff so I'm gonna have to mix it with something and hopefully he'll take it without a fuss. I also asked for a couple extra syringes just in case (i have a history of rats biting off the end of the syringe) and he gave me like 30!! lol When I said it's waaay to many, he just shrugged and said 'well, create some abstract art with them then' LOL

I also pointed out the little tumor I noticed on him 3 days ago. The vet felt it around and said it feels a little soft and could be a lipoma. It's still very small...larger than a dime but smaller than an nickel. He tried taking a sample of it but Brutis would not hold still and after several attempts we gave up because it was making him very unhappy/stressed out. Basically I was told to just watch it and see if it grows fast. He said that most lipomas grow very very slowly.
Has anyone dealt with lipomas before? Just how slowly do they grow? Or does it vary case by case? I looked up on ratguide and there was one example of lipoma and it said that it went from 1cm to 1.5inches in just 2.5 months. To me that doesn't sound like 'slow' growth rate.

[Lise]

I mix my baytril half/half with strawberry nesquik.  It seems to hide the bitterness relatively well.  And it is so much less expensive than paying for the compounded stuff.

Although it COULD be a lipoma, in my experience even the mammary tumors start off feeling like that.  Where is the lump located?

Lastly, putting him under anesthetic is much riskier if he is suffering from respiratory problems.... so I would make sure they are cleared up before considering any type of surgery. 

[ickybana5]

LastEchoes,

I don't mean to drag this out, and I am not trying to pick a fight, but the way you reacted to my original post was VERY rude and it was also misinformed and other people may read it some day and be negatively affected by it (ie, paying more than they have to or not medicating their pets because they cannot afford it)  Now I am involved in this discussion, so I may as well set my argument out there right.  So here goes:  It is NOT illegal to re-prescribe, and here is why:

Point #1:  I get my same medications refilled every single month without a new doctor visit (though I do have to come in once every year to check in and make sure my medications are still needed and are still working.)   My prescriptions are month to month with no refills without another written prescription, and I have had four different doctors over the years who have all been A-Okay with doing things this way. 

Point #2: My dog gets her medicine (for incontinence, and this medicine IS a controlled substance since it is related to the banned diet drug Phen fen) every month without a new office visit.  Do you really think all of these medical professionals are engaging in illegal practices?

Point #3:  Sites like petmeds.com are not exactly being attacked for "illegal practices."  Do you think all of those sites are doing illegal things under the noses of authorities?  I think not.  They would be stopped as soon as one of their ads was seen.

Point #4:  My boyfriend gets his prescriptions from a doctor in another state, every month, without a new office visit.  It would be very impractical and overly expensive for doctors to require an in office visit every time they wrote a new prescription.

If you don't believe me and would rather trust in the powers of the almighty internet, then google it.  Nothing comes up.  I tried it.  Here is a quote I got from the actual FDA about internet drug companies (needless to say, there are no office visits involved!)

" Legitimate pharmacy sites on the Internet provide consumers with a convenient, private, way to obtain needed medications, sometimes at more affordable prices. The elderly and persons in remote areas can avoid the inconvenience of traveling to a store to purchase medications. Many reputable Internet pharmacies allow patients to consult with a licensed pharmacist from the privacy of their home. Moreover, Internet pharmacies can provide customers with written product information and references to other sources of information like the traditional storefront pharmacy. Finally, the increasing use of computer technology to transmit prescriptions from doctors to pharmacies is likely to reduce prescription errors."

Now, if the FDA says it's legal, I think you don't really have a leg to stand on.

Please do some research before posting your own ideas of reality for all others to see.  Some people may be negatively affected by your naivety paired with your unabashed confidence in your opinions.  I hope this clears things up for you, and please do not reply without giving me some sort of reference to a valid source, or at least an explanation of why you hold the opinions you do.  Hopefully no hard feelings come from this.  I am very stubborn and when someone is rude to me and especially when they are wrong and rude, I tend to like to defend my points.  Sorry if this is offensive to you.  I am merely standing up for what is true so that other people don't get the wrong idea when reading your posts. 

[Lise]

A veterinarian must have an existing client patient relationship before prescribing a medication.  And they must have first hand seen the problem.

Yes, you can get refills.  But if you have never seen your doctor for a certain problem.... and you "self diagnose" your problem and try to get a pharmacy to call in a prescription for it when the doctor hasn't even seen you for that problem.... not going to happen!  (Or, it isn't supposed to, at least.)

Your dog can get her medicine refilled because the veterinarian has seen her for that problem.  But if you decide your dog now has a skin infection that needs steroids -- the vet would need to see the problem before filling that prescription.

[LastEchoes]

LastEchoes,

I don't mean to drag this out, and I am not trying to pick a fight, but the way you reacted to my original post was VERY rude and it was also misinformed and other people may read it some day and be negatively affected by it (ie, paying more than they have to or not medicating their pets because they cannot afford it) 

If you interpreted my post as rude, I'm sorry. It wasn't meant that way. All I did was state a fact that it's illegal. A problem, even if it's a reoccurring problem, still by law requires a visit in order to dispense any medication. That's a fact. Refills is one thing, 'getting' Rx is another. The quote you provides says nothing about calling a doctor and saying you  need such and such meds and they are allowed to give you without ever seeing you. Because that's illegal.........Ask any doctor.

I'd rather just drop this subject. I don't make the law and how you do things with your vet doesn't apply to me or my question. I just want people to give input on the issue my boy Brutis has and all this talk about Rx is hijacking the thread.

Lipoma is the new subject. =)

[ickybana5]

Lise, I agree with you completely!  I was trying to show LastEchoes that a trip to the vet for an infection a rat has previously had was probably unnecessary, especially since the vet has seen LastEchoes' pets for 7 years now.  It sounds like cash is tight for LastEchoes, and I figured I'd try and help out with a suggestion that has saved me lots and lots of money.  I mentioned in my first post that if the disease was new or could be confused with something else, an office visit is a must, but if she already has doxy, then it doesn't hurt to ask for a refill to avoid giving expired/contaminated meds.  I think your post nicely echoed what I was trying to say (and you were much less wordy than me in doing so.)  Thanks for the input!

[ickybana5]

LastEchoes,

I'm ready to drop this too, because you are not giving me any sort of factual evidence supporting your stance, and I never said anything about getting a prescription for something your rat has not had before.  I also never said anything about buying meds without a prescription. That would be illegal (and please read my first post carefully, I mentioned that there.)  Refilling a prescription is "dispensing Rx" and that is legal.  I was merely trying to save you some cash, as you said numerous times and in numerous posts how short you were on vet funds.  I am not trying to encourage you to do anything illegal, as I am not telling you to do anything underhanded.  Just ask your vet.  Is that so hard?  It could save you $70 or more to just ask a simple question and the worst you can hear is "no."  Please let me know where you are getting your facts (like I did for you,) because right now, you are just quoting yourself as far as I can tell. 

I am sorry for hijacking your thread (I do mean this,) but you asked for advice and I gave you some pretty darn solid advice. My intentions were to help and I am STILL trying to help.  I hope Brutus gets better, and I just wanted to let you know there was a less expensive way to help him with that and also avoid giving him expired meds.  Anyway, I am done now.  I think I said all I needed to say, and I am sorry if you do not agree.  Please do look it up though, it may surprise you and save you money.   

[LastEchoes]

OMG please drop this damn subject. I am a nurse and I know the law... hell, I'll PM you later quoting specific regulations if you'd like. I'm 99% sure the same rules apply for vets as the do for doctors. Now everyone PLEASE stop with Rx talk. I just want input on lipoma...I thought I'd just keep it to my thread, instead of starting a new one since its all about one rat, but if this continues I'll have to post a new topic since my questions are being drowned out by totally unrelated subject..........


Lise,
The 'maybe lipoma' is located on the upper left quadrant of this abdomen. I've seen my share of tumors and it feels like a tumor to me, but he's only barely over a year old...The vet saying it seems like a lipoma to him is kinda like a ray of hope for me lol

[ickybana5]

I did say I was dropping the subject... you just brought it up again.  Anyway, I guess we'll just agree to disagree, though I think you are disagreeing over something entirely different than I am.   Lise stated my point perfectly, so you should read her post again.  You really didn't read my last post at all.  I am sorry we got off on such a bad note. 

I am done posting on this subject.