"Raw" Diet?

[crzycoookies]

I quite honestly made an account just so I could ask this. I'm a pet nutrition addict, I almost literally spend my whole day at the computer looking up nutrition about various pets that I have or might some time get.  The rat I'm actually really considering getting soon, since its so intelligent compared to other rodents. So I've read about a whole bunch of diets, and all of them say to use lab blocks/dog food as a protein source. I totally want to avoid this, my arch enemy is processed foods. I try to avoid them at all costs for my pets(too bad I'm not such a health food guru for myself. Haha.), except where it's not possible for things like rabbits and guinea pigs and chinchillas. So I was wondering if I could replace the protein source that comes from lab blocks/dog food with something like insects and raw meat. If I did this, would I need to add anything extra that I'm missing out on from not feeding dog food/lab blocks?

[Lilija]

I'm no scientist level expert, but I think raw meat is too much protein, and probably a bad idea.  It's tough to balance their vitamin requirements, which is why a lot of us rely on (high quality) lab block or dog food.  You can get very high quality dog foods, if you're willing to spend for it, and many of us are. 

Here's a good option, and good reading regarding rat diet:  http://www.ratfanclub.org/diet.html if you haven't yet seen it.

[italianqt]

Yep, that was the first thing I thought of too - the diet that Debbie recommends on there. She does mention there have been some changes to it...I don't know how you could get ahold of that, though.

[Lilija]

Is there contact info on the site?

[italianqt]

There is, I just thought it might have been in one of the newsletters. By the way, I'm an idiot because it's written right at the top of the page that it was updated this year.

[crzycoookies]

Okay. That was my next option. Thanks guys. You could decrease the amount of raw meat(like if the diet would normally consist of 20% lab block/dog food, use 10% raw meat in the diet) but like you guys and myself said, too much guess work in balancing vitamins, etc.

[TwoDumboGirls]

Wonder if you could supplement with the raw diet patties that is available for dogs? It comes in different meat and has veggies mixed in with it but maybe cook the patties instead of giving it raw? I think it is called "Instinct" But maybe the protein level might be too high? I am feeding HT 2018  to my 2 baby girls right now and Linda's pasta mix and they get fresh veggies and fruits and eggs and other stuff ofcourse but Debbies recipe has entered my mind to feed that also.

[Dazydaizee]

Okay. That was my next option. Thanks guys. You could decrease the amount of raw meat(like if the diet would normally consist of 20% lab block/dog food, use 10% raw meat in the diet) but like you guys and myself said, too much guess work in balancing vitamins, etc.

The issue with that is lab blocks and dog food aren't 100% protein and neither is raw meat. You'd have to know the protein content of each to evaluate the proper amount. I would be extremely nervous about using raw meat due to the fact that rats are tiny creatures and prone to a lot of health issues. A compromised immune system and a small animal exposed to diseases that the meat may be contaminated with can equal death pretty quickly.
Besides, rats naturally would RARELY if ever be eating dead cow, chicken, lamb, ect. If your looking into a more natural diet insects and smaller rodents are most likely to be consumed by rats in the wild. But as with most omnivores, meat protein isn't always the best. There are alternate protein sources that can be healthier, and the amount of protein required for an adult animal is controversial. In fact too much protein can typically cause more problems than too little protein.

I'd be more concerned about balancing out essential vitamins and minerals.

I'm disgusted with the quality of meat in this country and would never consider feeding raw meat to my pets, not because I think raw meat is unhealthy, but because of the amount of meat that is contaminated with disease. In the United States we are expected to cook the bacteria off of our food.

[Ratwings]

Hi, I feed my dogs a raw diet and my rats get a combination of a dry cereal mixture and fresh "people food."  I firmly believe that the less processed a diet is, the healthier it is- for any species including humans (and I don't mean humans should eat raw meat, LOL).  However I have this issue of "convenience" sneak in and my rats do get their dry food every day in addition to the fresh stuff.

Rats are much different than dogs as they are scavengers, not carnivores, but I am sure raw meat (carrion) would be a natural source of nutrition for a rat in the wild, therefore something they are capable of digesting.  I have never fed my rats raw meat before, but I feed them cooked meat, raw and cooked veggies, beans, small amounts of fruit and dairy, nuts, whole grains and rarely some seed treats.  Rats don't need a whole lot of protein and as you have probably learned in your reading, raw meat isn't necessarily high in protein, contrary to popular opinion (it is mostly made of water). Most raw meat contains something like 12-14% protein or something around that I believe.  I have no idea though if raw meat is an ideal source of nutrients for rats (as it is for carnivores). Seeing as how they omnivores, I wouldn't be inclined to think that raw meat would have any superior benefits for a rat.  Personally I have not tried it because I am afraid they won't like it and will stash it in their cage without my knowing.... yuck!

[Mousie452]

Thank god for other nutrition nuts out there who don't believe in kibble or lab blocks. I've never fed my rodents raw meat though. I give my dogs raw meat, but the rodents have just gotten meat that's cooked. Meat is such a little part of their diet that I don't imagine giving it raw or cooking takes much away as it would in dogs. I won't even feed the prepared raw patties from pet food companies to my dogs, that's about as nutritional as canned dog food in a pressed patty shape.

The one thing I absolutely hate in lab blocks is soy. Do you have an opinion of soy?

[Ratwings]

I think that soy in its natural form is a very healthy food in moderation (like most anything else). My rats and I love edamame and enjoy tofu on occasion. But soy is just like corn in this country-- over-processed, altered both through cooking and genetic modification, and becoming almost unavoidable in prepared foods for humans and animals.  And it's not just small amounts- soy makes up significant parts of the ingredients.  That just can't be healthy IMO. All that processing makes otherwise nutritious food harder to digest.  I mean, if people started putting broccoli meal and broccoli oil and broccoli isolates in everything, I'm sure we'd see the same kind of problems we see with soy and corn.

[RatStars]

That's a very interesting question! I tend to agree that you don't need the meat to be raw, especially since it is not as high on their nutritional needs list as other things. I have given my rats live mealworms in the past. They loved them! It was like candy to them! Of course, I didn't buy them all the time and when I did have them available I'd feed them about once a week as a treat. I would be very interested in knowing what the outcome of your research is. Please post it if you come up with an all natural alternative. I'm sure many would love to see it.

[Cassy]

Wow this is a really interesting post. I've been asking similar questions in my post. I've gone organic and I'm getting my ratty there too. He actually eats the organic stuff way better than that processed food. I just think of that stuff as pop tarts... natural ingredients that have been fortified and have taste added(not to mention preservatives ) . I feed my ratty fresh veggies and some fruit and he begs for it. Unfortunately hes on a granola almond binge right now  If anyone knows of places that sell organic rat food let me know!! I'm in Toledo Ohio but I'd be willing to order online. I just started the baby food thing too... any flavor ideas?? I just grabbed a bunch of them lol.   

[Cassy]

What about organic chicken?? I agree that a rat would most likely not be eating a cow in the wild but they are scavengers.. who's to say one wouldn't eat chicken or another dead animal if they came across it? I mean rats don't eat yogurt drops in the wild either and everyone seems to be pro that.

[Leonakitty]

I mean rats don't eat yogurt drops in the wild either and everyone seems to be pro that.

Not everyone. I'd NEVER feed me rats one of those nasty, processed things.
I also really don't think rats should have dairy.  Especially the dairy in yogies which is probably RBGh filled and not high quality.
No thanks!

My rats do get some processed food, their main staple is a 95% organic vegetarian formula that is amazingly high quality.
It's got really good, whole food ingredients and I'm comfortable feeding them that as their staple food.  They also get organic produce, legumes, grains, etc. and organic baby food as treats, plus supplemental flax, nutritional yeast, Green Mush, mushroom supplements and garlic for immunity. 

I'm also really big into feeding my rats the safest, best, most complete food with the least amount of crappy fillers, GMOs, and pesticide residues. 
If you're looking for a good protein source, have you looked into quinoa at all?  It's a seed that we use like a grain and it's a complete protein - same quality amino acids as milk or eggs.  Not super high in fat like traditional seeds/nuts and super tasty.  Organic quinoa is actually the first ingredient in my kiddos staple (PetGuard Organic veg) and I'm all about this very nutritious, ancient super food.   Plus, unlike animal proteins, it lacks cholestrol and has lots of good, healthy fiber. Go quinoa!

Melissa

[Cassy]

Do you make your own rat food or do you find organic rat food somewhere? I've been looking for some everywhere with no such luck. The only dairy I feed my rat is a bit of cheese now and then. I'm probably the farthest from a rat expert here but he just loves it to much for me to deny him a little now and then. I bring him stuff home from my work too (Chipotle) and they have a lot of naturally raised things. ( He loves lettuce and bits of green peppers) I was just wondering what I could make/buy for him that he'd love. He loves organic baby food too.

[crazydaisy]

I just read in the paper that eating a raw diet can be tricky and that you would have to eat a ton of veggies to get all your nutrients. They said cooking your veggies brings out a lot of the nutrients that you need. I don't feed my rats any kind of meat. I rarely give them anything soy I want to stay away from phytoestrogens and that's why I use the 2014. Yes their processed, but they work for me in their mix & they are complete. Though I would love to try a organic vegetarian food, but it's kind of pricey.