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Author Topic: Hematuria ...was revolution concerns.  (Read 1360 times)
jorats
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« on: June 02, 2008, 11:46:25 AM »

Over a month ago, we took in rescue girls. I dosed one with Revolution and the next day she started peeing blood. I never related it to the revolution and just figured it was a bladder infection. She was put on meds and did a full recovery.
Yesterday, I dosed all my crew with Revolution and this morning, I've found my girl with lots of blood in her urine. She's lethargic, cold and not eating. I've started her on Baytril and pred. I'm also syringe feeding her Ensure. I'm very worried.
But... it now has me wondering, what are the chances of two females getting a UTI the day after a dosing of Revolution?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 09:31:37 AM by jorats » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 01:19:51 PM »

Oh, my gosh, that's horrible. I've never heard of that before.  I'd always heard that Revolution was safe, relatively speaking.  I hope someone else knows something, and I hope your girly feels better really soon.  Blue Dumbo Big Eyes
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 01:30:51 PM »

Hmmm... I couldn't find any reputable sources linking selamectin application to hematuria, but I'm wondering -- hematuria can result from the ingestion of alcohol. Is it possible some of the rats could have ingested it? This sounds like it's more than just hematuria though, and resulted in a full-blown infection. Huh.
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 09:15:37 PM »

Thanks JR1030.

Mandy, it's possible for my girl to have ingested some but not the first girl. It's really puzzling.
But on a good note, Cande is doing much better, there's not that much blood in her urine tonight. She's more alert and hungry.
Thank god!!
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2008, 11:43:45 AM »

Well, we just found another rat peeing blood. This one is at my mom's. I had dosed them as well with Revolution. This is getting way to coincidental.  Worry
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2008, 02:07:34 PM »

i found this as a list of side effects, but they are most likely only talking about cats and dogs. though i would also have to think they would have done a lot of testing on lab rats too.
"What are the possible side effects of Revolution: Side effects of Revolution that may occur include temporary hair loss at the site of application, loss of appetite, drooling, vomiting, diarrhea, drowsiness, rapid breathing, increased heart rate, and muscle tremors." i also went to check one of my books i have and it says the same thing, but again only talking about cats and dogs


this site list possible causes, (for humans anyways) http://www.emedicinehealth.com/blood_in_the_urine/page2_em.htm

i couldn't really find much info to help but everytime I've used it, i had no problems. hope all ends well
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2008, 02:49:37 PM »

This is a long shot, but do you think that the batch could have become somehow contaminated at any point?
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2008, 03:02:24 PM »

Oh, gosh, I'm so sorry.  I wonder about contamination, too.  Did you use the same batch for yours and your mom's?
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 08:38:58 PM »

That's the weird part... I dosed 74 rats, three different households and different vials too. I used 6mg/kg which is not even a high dose.
My Cande is doing great, almost no more blood at all. Louie is still peeing bright red blood but he's in good form, very active and eats well.
I suppose having so many rats, we are bound to run into all kinds of things.
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2008, 09:23:02 AM »

I just found my Boo this morning, he has blooding coming from his penis, just like the others. Of course, it can't be the Revolution, it's been almost a full week.
I did some research on hematuria and found Trichosomoides crassicauda (bladder thread worm). Does anyone have any information on this parasite?
I googled it but there's not much. It's species specific, usually no symptoms, mostly found on wild or lab rats not pet rats.
It says treat with ivermectin. I wonder if the Revolution might have had a hand in making the symptoms appear?
I'm still waiting for my vet to come back from her holidays.  Sad
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2008, 09:42:06 AM »

Aren't rats prone to crystals also?  Maybe that's what is causing the hematuria?  Is there anyone else you can see at the animal hospital that you go to, who can do a cystocentesis on the bladder and get some urine to check for that?

Deb
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 10:05:09 AM »

The rats show no pain, wouldn't they be hurting with crystals in the bladder?
I think my vet is in on Monday, if it was something minor, I would have brought them in to the clinic and have her colleague check them out but she really doesn't know much about rats and that would have cost me well over $100 for nothing.
Baytril wouldn't have helped if it were crystals? I'm not even sure if the Baytril did help, it seems that 2 days after the onset of hematuria, the rat is completely back to normal. We start Baytril asap on the one with blood coming from their urethra.
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 10:31:54 AM »

They might not necessarily show pain.  That would be a sign of weakness and being a prey animal, they don't want to show any signs of weakness.  Well Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic I believe, so it might have some help with a urinary tract infection though it isn't necessarily the ideal one to use.

Deb
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 12:10:24 PM »

Ratguide says that rats that have eaten a lot of carrots, beets, or berries can show reddish tint in their urine, called pseudohematuria.  Have your rats eaten anything like that?  Ratguide also has a link for trichosomoides crassicauda, but the link goes to a page that doesn't exist.
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 01:09:08 PM »

How contagious is a bladder thread worm? I suppose it would have to have come in on something that was common to all the affected rats - food or bedding - since you've got rats in different cages and households affected. It would be a major pain to treat 74 rats with ivermectin, but that might be cheaper than a vet visit and tests. If it were me, I'd be inclined to treat for that just to rule it out. If the problem comes back, at least you know that's not the problem. I don't know if it's available over the counter in Canada, but you might be able to find it at a feed/livestock store.
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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 03:24:14 PM »

One thing I read said the threadworms were a chronic condition, and wouldn't bother the rats unless they spread to the lungs.
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2008, 03:24:48 PM »

JR1030, nope, nothing like that to eat. I'm 100% positive it's blood.  Sad

Scout, I think I'll do that, try ivermectin, we can get it at any equine store here. I'll be treating 91 rats. *gulp*
From researching, I believe that parasite is very contagious. All I had to do is clean up some urine, get some little bug eggs on me and off to visit my mom and other rats. I'm just praying that the wee babies won't start any bleeding. The amount of blood loss from Louie was scary, same with my Cande. But with Boo, it's not so bad.
I did find my Mielle dying... she too had huge drops of blood coming from her urethra. God, I hope it was just a coincidence and just her kidneys shutting down. She was 38 months old.  Cry
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2008, 03:27:47 PM »

One thing I read said the threadworms were a chronic condition, and wouldn't bother the rats unless they spread to the lungs.

I read that too. So I think ivermectin might be the best choice. I may also start nebulizing my whole crew again.
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2008, 04:38:53 PM »

I'm so sorry about Mielle! To have made it to 3 years, then to go so suddenly. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you get to the bottom of this and get it fixed in a hurry. You're going to be so busy! Wish I could come help.
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2008, 04:51:20 PM »

Thanks Scout...
I'm calling my vet tomorrow, she should be back. My Boo is not doing so well. He's not bleeding as bad as the other's did but he's lethargic, cold and not eating. I'm really worried about him.  Cry

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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2008, 05:28:39 PM »

Oh, gosh, I really hope you can get this under control.  Heart
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2008, 05:41:04 PM »

I made a timeline to get a better idea:

On April 26th, we rescued Daizy and April. (living at my mom's)
On April 27th morning, Daizy gives birth and we then did Revolution on April.
On April 27th evening, we found small spots of blood. I checked April and it was coming from her urethra so she was immediately put on Baytril.
On April 29th, Oscar (lives at my mom's) never had Revolution bled profusely in his cage. He was never in contact with the rescues. We thought Oscar was going to die. (lethargic and cold) We couldn't find any marks on him, and it did not show that he was bleeding from the urethra. We figured he had hurt a toe cause of the amount of blood in the cage and figured it had healed up fast. Full recovery within 24 hours.
June 1st, Revolution on 74 rats.
June 2nd, found Cande,(lives at my place) lethargic, cold and not eating. Lots of blood with urine. I had to change the napkins 4 times. She was put on Baytril immediately and did a full recovery after 3 days.
June 2nd-3rd, Louie (lives at my mom'sand is Oscar's bro) lots of blood, not only urine soaked but if you would pick him up his penis/urethra would gush out blood. Put on Baytril, full recovery within 2 days.
June 4th, I found my Mielle (lives at my place) dying. She is basically brain dead and has huge drops of dark blood coming from her urethra. She passes within a couple of hours.
June 7th, Boo (lives at my place) has some very small amount of blood coming from his urethra. Not much at all. He's on Baytril now. Not recovering well.

I live in a triplex, with my parents and sister. My sister's rats never had any reaction.
But, when my sister gave her dog her revolution (time of month) yesterday, Roxie became very sick. (vomiting and diarrhea)
I don't know if it's all related or just a coincidence, hopefully my vet will have some answers.
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2008, 09:10:54 PM »

It's going to have to be a postmortem tomorrow with my vet. My Boo just left me.  Cry
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2008, 09:24:59 PM »

oh no, jorats, i'm so sorry about your boo.  he's hale and hearty now at the bridge. 
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2008, 10:01:09 PM »

Oh no, jorats!  I'm so sorry!!  (HUGS)  Heart

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