My poor, shy Parsley has had a sore mouth for a few days.  We took her to the vet this morning (which was incredibly traumatic for Parsley, the vet, the vet tech, and me) and it looks like she has a broken incisor and, consequently, malocclusion of the neighboring tooth.  At the moment, she's resting at the vet hospital, and in a little while the vet is going to gas her, trim her teeth, check her out for further problems, and then give me a call.  I am, of course, a bundle of nerves.  Parsley is on the older side (over two years, probably about 2 1/2), but in perfect health (except for the current problem).  So I hope everything goes well.

Anyway, on to my questions.  The vet plans to send Parsley home with trimethoprim sulfa and (at my request) some metacam.  I've used trimeth before, so I know it is fairly nasty tasting (but also that Parsley eats any and all medicine with great gusto).  Should we be considering using a second antibiotic also?  If so, which one?  I don't yet know whether there are other problems (infection, abscess, tumor) in her mouth.  If there is an abscess, should I use more/different antibiotics?  Are there other things I ought to be considering?

Thanks for any and all advice, thoughts, or suggestions.  This is actually Parsley's first visit to the vet, and the first time I've had to leave a rat at the hospital.  So we are all anxious and unhappy.  I'm just trying to focus on how much better she's going to feel with healthy teeth.  And crossing my fingers that they don't grow back crooked again.

(edited to add photo of the Parsley in question)

"Look, my teeth were just fine a few months ago."

I have a disgustingly healthy bunch, but it sounds good to me.  Big sigh of relief that your Parsley is OK.

Okay, a question.  The vet called and said Parsley is doing fine (just waking up).  However, when the vet was trimming her teeth (lower incisors), they were bleeding.  According to the vet, this is unusual and she doesn't know the cause (this particular vet is, however, somewhat more experienced with rabbits than with rats).  I know I have read elsewhere on here of rats' teeth bleeding during a trim.  Does anyone know how common this is?  Does anyone know of possible causes?  Anyone want to give me a basic education in the anatomy of rat teeth?

Sigh.  I'm going to mix some metacam with her ensure when she gets home, and hope for the best for my sweet girl.

Hey slynx, just be careful, metacam can cause the bleeding to continue sometimes.

I'm not sure if it was on this forum or not but I remember someone commenting about how they gave metacam to a rat that had some bleeding after a tooth trim and clotting issues occured. 

I just ran a search, can't find the thread sorry.  It was a while back though.

It sounds like your vet needs to research trimming rat teeth since its not the same as rabbit teeth and trimming too short will make them bleed.  Have you seen your vet trim them at all?  What does he/she use?

There are websites out there showing you how to trim them at home you might want to show your vet, angles and all.

http://ratballs.com/RatTails/Tails080.html

Oh, poor Parsley!  I'm sorry to hear she's having a rough time (and as a result, you are too).  (((hugs))) 

Thanks guys.  I'm just all freaked out, though experience indicates that I will take a deep breath soon and somehow manage to get through this.  The sudden speed in which a seemingly health rat can crash never fails to knock me sideways, you know?

I looked at her teeth this morning (to her enormous disgust) and they seem fine -- no signs of cracking, no continued bleeding.  But yeah, I wonder about how rough the trimming was on her, and I'm reasonably certain that the second broken tooth may have been the result of the trimming.  Sometimes, even though I know I'm doing the best I can with the resources we have, it just doesn't feel like enough.

Parsley is snoozing in her favorite ball, with a Pee Rag pillow and Peppercorn standing guard over them.  I think I should follow their lead and try to relax for a bit.

I have metacam, which turns out to be one of the few medicines Parsley actual dislikes.  Her mouth seems a great deal less sore last night and today, but her coordination is still very off.  I really suspect neurological problems, possibly from the anesthesia or some intervening event.  She is displaying lack of coordination, pawing at her food and at other objects (eg. me, the cage walls), and particular clumsiness with her left hand.

From the research I was able to do, a dremel tool is fine for rats but not for home use (as no rat I know would allow a vibrating tool anywhere near their mouths while they are awake).  Clippers or cutters work also, but increase the risk of trauma (tooth cracking, etc.) due to the blunt force used.  But of course, I am no expert and am currently experiencing a lot of self-doubt.

She's getting lots of rest and seems much more comfortable with the passing of time.  Peppercorn is taking very good care of her within their cage, and I am doing my best outside.  She's eating (mostly baby food right now) quite messily, but with interest, and is taking some time to explore her favorite places.  So we are still watching closely for signs of change.

If there is some neurological damage, from a stroke or from the anesthesia, would something like prednisone be indicated to aid in any potential recovery?

Thanks!  I'd talk to the vet before putting her on anything, but I've found that it helps if I have some ideas to offer her.  I just spent the morning with Parsley, and she actually seems somewhat better today.  She's more active, the lack of coordination seems more confined to her hands/head than yesterday (when it was present in her whole body) and her eyes were sparklier.  So I am feeling a tiny bit hopeful, even if only a bit.  Of course, she carried her post-breakfast yogie under the bed and then promptly fell asleep.  So I need to work out how to make her bestir herself and waddle back to her cage, where I'm sure she'd be more comfortable.  Silly girls.

Isoflurane.  I'd love to see the video, if you don't mind.  Did the two boys recover from the overdose?  If so, do you know how long it took?

That video is heartbreaking.  Poor Wilbur!  I'm glad they were okay, and I really appreciate you sharing the video/story.

Parsley is about the same again today, except that her appetite is picking up tremendously.  She ate nearly half a jar of baby food (sweet potato and chicken...mmm...), some scrambled egg, and a dozen or so cheerios (soaked in soy formula to make them a little soggy), and that was just breakfast #1.  I like to see her eating, even though she's still remarkably messy (esp. with the baby food, which gets smeared all over her face).  Her hand-to-mouth coordination has picked up, but otherwise she's just as weird and clumsy as before. 

Parsley's coordination/wooziness was never as bad as Wilbur's in that video, but it is certainly lasting much longer.  At this point, the main thing she is doing is approaching food by rubbing the left side of her face in it (she was pawing at it, but that has diminished slightly).  There is a real lack of ability as far as navigation, orientation, and facial coordination...she doesn't exactly walk into walls, but she has a lot of trouble picking anything up or putting her face in the right place.  It's hard to describe.  The most heartbreaking part (from my point of view) is that she has trouble cleaning herself up after she's shoved her face into the baby food.  So she's perpetually a little sticky, though Peppercorn is trying to tidy her up.  I always get a sinking feeling when my rats can't clean themselves properly.  Being Parsley, she freaks out when I try to help out, even if I am gentle.

I can't remember if I said this earlier, but this isn't the vet we usually see.  We go to a hospital with three exotics vets and this is the one we haven't seen before.  Due to my doubts about the tooth trimming, as well as her rather grating personality, I'll be requesting one of the other two from now on.

Anyway, she is eating and drinking and getting a great deal of nursing from her cagemates.  Even Pee Rag, who normally abhors prolonged contact with sick rats (we can't all be nurses) has been spending a lot of time snuggling her.  I am hoping for some continued improvement, even though it seems to be very slow.  She is finally able to eat from a bowl instead of requiring spoon feeding, so I am really hoping that we see some greater strides in that direction.

Thanks so much for the help, and for the sympathy.

Thanks very much for the videos and case histories.  Parsley's eating habits resemble Maya's quite closely, especially with the head tilting (her head doesn't tilt any other time, however).  Our little Bug passed away from a pituitary/brain tumor last fall (very rapid onset and progression), and several of Parsley's behaviors have been ringing those same bells for me.  Particularly the pawing, which I see Ariel also did, and the lack of coordination while eating.  It is hard to put into words, but some of her symptoms just say neurological to me.

If it is a PT, it has come about quite quickly and with the curious coincidence of severe symptoms occurring immediately following Monday's tooth trim.  Because so many of her more severe symptoms involve the mouth, I'm having trouble calling it for sure.  I also find myself wondering if there could have been something that happened during or shortly after the procedure, such as a stroke or other event, that caused some brain damage.

Our usual vet is back in the office tomorrow, and I'll be talking to her in the morning.  We are having a tough time figuring out where to take this.  If we wait and see if there is improvement, I worry that Parsley will suffer.  Because of her extreme fear of new places and people, if I take her in to be PTS I guarantee that her final hour will be one of terror and absolute misery.  So we are trying to make sure that that terrifying experience is better than any alternative.  It isn't easy, and I really appreciate your help and your time spent considering my sweet Parsley.