Neutering

[RandomTree]

I'm considering neutering Olaf, my new 6-month-old boy, for excessive urine-marking if he doesn't slow down soon.

I have found a WONDERFUL vet... she sees quite a few rats, and I have complete trust in her ability to do the surgery safely.

I am curious what other effects the surgery might have on him besides reducing the urination.  He is kind of a big squishy lazy boy right now... will he get lazier? Get more active? Any other behavioral/personality changes? How about physical changes?

[anita1216]

Whats the big deal with the urine marking? That hardly seems like a good reason to have a boy neutered   The one boy I had snipped because of aggression never did stop marking, so Im not sure that will do you or him a whole lot of good.

[Dazydaizee]

One of our boys we had neutered for aggression was a big urine marker. He couldn't walk over you without dribbling some at any time. It can get annoying...

My boy has stopped urine marking almost completely. He's much calmer now and doesn't initiate fights with the other rats anymore. He may have gained some weight, which for him is a problem because he's already so fat, but that hasn't been the case with my other neutered rats.

I don't think neutering him would be extreme. We routinely neuter cats and dogs for behavioral reasons and to prevent breeding. People neuter male rats who are going to live with female rats, when they could just as easily stick to owning only one gender. If you trust the vet, and the vet does a good job, the rat will have a few uncomfortable days (which they typically don't seem too distressed over, especially if your vet gives you some pain medication) and then he'll be just fine.

Just keep in mind, though neutering decreases urine marking in some rats, it won't necessarily eliminate it, and sometimes doesn't make much of a difference. For my rat who urine marked it made an extreme difference, but that's not always the case.

[anita1216]

No, its not an extreme thing to do, just most people dont snip a male simply because he urine marks. As far as male rats go, there are no health benefits unless he is aggressive. Its the females that get the health benefits from being spayed.

[RandomTree]

anita1216 - the problem isn't normal urine marking, it's excessive urine-marking... he leaves my shirt plastered to my body, and I have to shower after I've snuggled him. He makes big puddles on the shelves of his cage and then he sleeps in them.

I'm giving him a few weeks to settle in first, and hopefully the urine-marking will go down to more reasonable levels on its own, but if it doesn't, a neuter is the likely next step.

Right now he's limited to my room because of this, which means he only gets playtime when I'm in here... if we can get the urine marking down to a more reasonable level, he can ride around on my shoulder as much as he wants, and play with my housemates and see more of the world so he'll have a much more interesting and less restricted life. Right now he can't do things like "help" me in the kitchen, or come out to the livingroom to watch TV with everyone...

But I'm also pretty nervous about the neuter, which is why I want to know exactly what changes come with it... I think the chance for him to be out and about participating in the world will improve his quality of life, but I want to know any other effects it might have on him first before I decide whether or not to do it.

[Heather]

Are you sure he's not peeing because he's frightened or untrusting? Marking is considered dribbles. It sounds like your boy is full out peeing if the amounts you say are true. In that case, neutering won't help- socialization will and once they feel comfortable they will hold their urine and feces if that is happening too. If you go ahead with the surgery make sure the vet uses glue on the incision to help prevent infection. I've never had luck with sutures- all abscessed but none with glue have. Good luck.

EDIT- It is common for rats on solid shelved cages to urinate and sleep in it. Neutering definately won't help with that. It's just what males do. If you are worried about that, get a Martins cage with wire shelves so the pee falls down to the bottom bedding.

[RandomTree]

The behavior I am observing is "skiing" -- he'll slide down my back or scoot along my leg or arm and leave a trail of pee. Over the course of an hour I get rather soaked.

He's quite a social boy... he likes to sit up on my shoulder and brux, and he comes to me when I open the cage door... right now he and my other boy are curled up in my lap napping... but now that you mention it, I wonder if there could be something that startles him out of cuddly rat mode and into pee mode... I'll have to keep an eye and see if I can notice anything that sets him off. (Yay! Maybe I don't have to neuter him after all...)

[diabolique]

The behavior I am observing is "skiing" -- he'll slide down my back or scoot along my leg or arm and leave a trail of pee. Over the course of an hour I get rather soaked.

I'm not trying to make light of or dismiss your concerns, but I have to tell you that this description literally made me laugh out loud! 

So THAT's the name for what my boys do to me! They are relentless!

[RandomTree]

The behavior I am observing is "skiing" -- he'll slide down my back or scoot along my leg or arm and leave a trail of pee. Over the course of an hour I get rather soaked.

I'm not trying to make light of or dismiss your concerns, but I have to tell you that this description literally made me laugh out loud! 

So THAT's the name for what my boys do to me! They are relentless!

*grin* I just made up the word, but it seemed to fit pretty well.

I want words for the gaits of a rat... horses have walk/trot/canter/gallop... what do rats have? "Sneak", "scamper", "bounce", and "ZOOOM!!!" perhaps?

[Heather]

I would definately try everything possible and even wait a few months past puberty to see if it calms down. Putting a rat under anesthesia is always a risk. There was someone not too long ago that took a few of her boys in to get neutered and lost 1 or 2. It's not something that should be done for nonthreatening reasons. Extreme aggression, cancer/tumors and being able to live with females without breeding would make me want to neuter my males. Not liking the sight of testicles or marking would not. I got one of my females spayed "just because" and lost her not too long after surgery because she bled nearly to death and became severely anemic despite anything we tried to help. It's not a fun thing to live with the guilt. I'm not trying to tell you what to do but I am offering the other side of the story. Yea, there are tons of successful surgery stories and your vet may be the most competant person in the world but none of that matters if your rat has a reaction to the anesthesia and cannot be revived.

[Anesthesia]

Hmm.  We've had two males neutered.. both by the same doctor.  The first was Creamy.  We had him neutered so he could live with a female, Peaches.  We had no problems at all with his surgery or recovery.  He did gain a bit of weight after the surgery but I think he lived longer because of it.  However, he did not stop approaching her when she'd go into heat.  He would still try to hump her.. then stop.. pull up his stomach and look down at himself.. confused.. like.. "why isn't this working?!" -- *lol*.  Other than that.. I didn't notice any other changes or lack of desired changes. *lol*  (But FYI - His marking did not change in the least.)

The second neuter was just a few weeks ago, for Munkey.  The reasons for neutering him is a little more complicated. *lol*  He was not a dominant rat.. not aggressive.  But it's like he was stuck in puberty and would hump every other rat non-stop.. as if he was going after a female.  The situation was so bad that the other rats would get annoyed and fight with him.  Because of it, we ended up having to separate him from the others.  So, we had him neutered!  And it worked - big time.  He's stopped humping.. and yes, he's marking less.. even though he didn't mark excessively before.  He's now back in the big cage with everyone else and getting along just fine! 

The only issue we had with him was during his recovery.  They glued his incision closed, which is fine.. but he's a very clean rat and grooms a lot... SO of course, he opened up his incision.    We took him back to the vet and they increased his pain meds to 3-4 drops of buprinex daily (to try and get him to ignore it).. they also made him a tiny little e-collar (omg - SO adorable!!) to keep him from being able to reach it.  We didn't want to sedate him again to have them close it back up, so they left the area open.  We applied Trypzyme-V to the area 3 times daily to prevent infection and dissolve dead tissue to encourage healing.  It's been an interesting process but he's made a full recovery and you can barely tell he had the surgery now... ya know, except for the lack of.. other.. umm.. parts. 

So two different surgeries.. both by the same dr.  Both rats were 12-18 months when they had the surgeries.. and both had slightly different outcomes.. BUT both rats made a great recovery!  I think in your situation, I would also have him neutered.  It sounds like he's just drenching you with urine.  And in addition to all of the other things mentioned, you'd hate to have him pick up on your unhappiness with him.  It sounds like both of you would be a lot happier if the neuter would improve the situation.. even a little!  But there is always a risk... You just have to think.. "If I lose him during the surgery.. was it worth the end result if it had worked".. I dunno. It's tricky. 

[anita1216]

My beloved Fergus was a "leaver of lakes" That boy would just pee on everything and it wasnt just marking, it was a river. He was well socialized and a very loving boy, it was just his thing I guess LOL It was just something I got used to, but I understand how it could be an issue for some people.

To be honest? I wouldnt mind lakes of pee to have him back for five minutes. I had him pts on May 28th(he had a large tumor in his colon) and I still miss him every single day..all the time.

Good luck with your boy and I hope you find a solution that works for both of you.