Questions about Suebee's mix :)

[Peep]

Hi everyone.
I mostly feed my rats veggies, crackers and pet store food but I have been reading around and discovered how bad pet store food is for them  So of course I went to look up Suebee's mix and you're supposed to mix it with high quality dog food right? Well I have a dog so I can just use some of his food hehe but I'm not sure that it's high quality and I was wondering what exactly it needs to be considered high quality  I couldn't find the amount of protein but of course the bag it comes on has a rant about how healthy it is so I would think it's alright... but that could be completely untrue =/ It has lamb and rice and it's for small dogs. If there's nothing specific for dog food, I will just use that. Also I was was wondering if I should mix in some pet store food with Suebee's mix or is it completely unnecessary?  Those are my two questions and I can't wait to whip up some healthy, yummy food for my ratties.
Thanks! 

EDIT : Whoops one more thing, since I'm in Canada I can't get the total cereal, is there anything else I can supplement that with, other than vitamins? And if vitamins, how much would I give them? thanks again

[wickedrodent]

Nutro lite dog food is good to supplement with. Either that or Harlan lab block. 

[Peep]

ok I'll look for that. thanks

[melissaf]

I know some people may not agree with this, but my longest living rat (3.5 yrs) never ate dog food, store bought rat food or lab blocks of any type. I roughly followed the Suebee's mix, but not really. I added a bunch of whole grains (rye, wheat, barley, millet) to the mix or sprouted the grains and fed it to the rats. I also added a bunch of dried fruits and veggies to the mix (I dehydrate fruits and veggies myself.) I essentially adapted my primarily vegetarian diet to fit the rats and shared. They got a lot of cooked beans, occasionally nuts, bits of egg and other sources of protein. I also have never added Total to their mix. I'd dump in the dregs of any cereal I bought (generally organic, more natural cereals) in their cage and they also got tons of veggies and fruits, both dried and fresh/frozen.  In general the Suebee's mix was a quick and easy staple, but with a lot of extra variety of items added on top.

[Peep]

Woah Melissaf that's really cool ... too bad my own eating habits aren't that great, but that's really interesting I'll mix in what you said to subsitute certain things, this is great, my rats are going to be much healthier. Thanks so much! By the eggs though, cooked?

[chiropteragirl]

What brand of dog food do you use?

You want to shoot for a dog food that has about 15-22% protein, and 4-8% fat.

A good dog food I used when my rats were on a grain mix (now on Debbie Ducommun diet) was Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul Light formula. It is very high quality but as much as $20 cheaper for a larger bag than the really expensive brands like Canidae or Innova.

Go ahead and improvise a little with the Suebee's mix.

For example, I substituted the sunflower seeds for ground flax and hemp hearts.

I used all natural cereals. My boys adored Nature's Path cereals, especially Heritage O's, which are similar to Cheerios, but all natural and made with heritages grains. Kashi also makes nice cereals that rats like.

You could also try dried vegetable flakes (like the kind you find in instant ramen) instead of fruit, because most dried fruit is very sugary.

 As whole grains are best, another good thing to add is a few cups of mixed whole grain kernels like millet, brown rice, quinoa, spelt, rye, or barley. As well, I used Kamut pasta instead of regular wheat, because it is more nutrient dense.

As for a Total substitute, there are two things that work. One is Vector cereal, and the other is President's Choice Force Active cereal. The Force Active is sold in places that sell President's Choice brand products, like Real Canadian Superstore or Wholesale stores. If you have one of those stores in your area, I'd recommend it over the Vector, because it is lower in salt and sugar.

Mostly though, feel free to play around with it. Use the ingredients your rats like, those that fit your budget and are available in your area. As long as you supplement with lots of balanced fresh foods, most nutritional requirements are generally met pretty quickly.

[Peep]

Wow, thank you so much. That's great I eat Vector haha um my dog food is NUTRO-Natural Choice (Small Dogs) Lamb and Rice, but it doesnt say (... or I can't find) the amount of fat and/or protein. =/ I'll try that other stuff you suggested next time I'm at petsmart.
thanks again! 

[Addicted2Rats]

I'm guessing that one of the more experienced members will pipe in here and add their knowledge.  As far as the protein level in foods, for really young rats, you'll want no more than 18%.  With adult rats, you want about 16% protein.  Older rats usually get fed a lower protein level (about 14%) because too much protein can cause kidney problems.  If you have an obese rat, you'll want to go with about 14% protein content.  So, as a general rule most members pick out a good quality "light" dog food because those usually have a lower protein content.  I think the food that I'm feeding to my guys is called Aveno and is 18% protein.  If you're going to be feeding Suebee's mix with it, they're not getting a straight protein diet so the actual protein level that they're ingesting will be a little bit lower (which is ok).  You definitely don't want anything more than 18% though because that's way too high (unless you've got a pregnant or lactating rat).

Deb

[Heatherama]

I spent all day yesterday going from store to store...grocery, organic, whole foods etc...looking for everything on the Suebee's mix list.  Lol.  Turns out they don't like the rice puffs.  Oh well, trial and error.  I also found a bunch of dried furits and veggies called "Just Bananas, or Just Peas..."  All it is is whatever it says, no sugar, salt or anything like that.  My babies have picked all that stuff out along with the Total flakes and eaten that first.  So far all they don't like in it is the Rice Puffs. 

Yeah I got a WHOLE BUNCH of stuff...hahaha...anyone in PA, want some Suebee's mix?   

[coeurfragile]

Yeah I got a WHOLE BUNCH of stuff...hahaha...anyone in PA, want some Suebee's mix?   

Where in PA? 

I've been planning to make some Suebee's mix at some point and time but never got around to it!

Edit: I looked in your profile info -- unfortunately we're about 4 hours apart! Oh well.

[jeepharm]

Yeah I got a WHOLE BUNCH of stuff...hahaha...anyone in PA, want some Suebee's mix?   

Where in PA? 

I've been planning to make some Suebee's mix at some point and time but never got around to it!

Edit: I looked in your profile info -- unfortunately we're about 4 hours apart! Oh well.

Hey coeurfragile~you should join the Pittsburgh Rat Lovers Club!  We have a couple local events every year that are really fun, plus local support when you need it asap! (pm me for info, wait, you may not be able to, I see you are a newbie here...)  Our next event is in October.

I don't do the dog food either in the SueBee's because I feed Harlan.  I do swap out the other stuff though, usually the puffed cereals for organic puffed cereals.  Millet is a favorite, but I'm having trouble finding it!  The nerve of my local grocery to stop carrying it!  Don't they realize my boys NEED it!     I wouldn't DARE swap out the Total~I think I just may have a riot on my hands...

Ann & my gorgeous boys Nobel, Figlewitz, Ridley, D'Marco, Gino & Nunzio!
Enjoy the yogie bar Efram!
Co-founding Partner/Secretary
Pittsburgh Rat Lovers Club & Rescue