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Author Topic: Lilys Tumors;; Why is she very very skinny now?  (Read 486 times)
babygirl12
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« on: July 10, 2008, 05:14:14 PM »

When im holding Lily  aside from her huge tumors when you feel around her stomach area and her spine she feels like skin and bones. I dont know whats wrong wit her but maybe she is losing weight from carrying around the huge tumors. I dont know if this is a problem, because she seems to be eating just as she used to be, and she used to be very very fat. Is this a problem?
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2008, 05:20:24 PM »

Tumours actually steal the blood supply and nutrients from your rat.  Think of them as parasites when they are bigger.  Your rat is eating to feed them now. Sad  You have to try to supplement her like crazy and see if you can slow the weight loss or decide if your Lily has had enough and needs to be pts Sad
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babygirl12
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2008, 05:27:41 PM »

Ok well thanks alot, i will feed her alot and supplement her, but how exactly will i know if she has had enough, becuase so far she has not been acting any different or acting like she is fed up with life, she always gets excited to see me and almost falls out of the cage door. she gets cheese and zooms down the stairs to the bottom to eat it. well thanks for your help. ill keep sum updates posted if anything happens.

&& well i hate to talk about it but if it was time to put her to sleep then where do you take her and wat do you do.?
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2008, 05:44:41 PM »

When she no longer enjoys eating or being with you, you'll know.  In the meantime, baby food, avocado are good supplements.  Some people like to give Ensure, but I prefer to give soy-based human baby formula.  You buy the powder and you mix it 3-4 times the strength listed on the container.  That way you get a much greater nutrient content.
When the time comes that you feel she is no longer able to enjoy life you can talk to your vet.
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 08:28:58 PM »

Oh and be very careful with the sugar and fat intake as both of these will feed and make the tumours grow even faster Sad
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babygirl12
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2008, 11:21:58 AM »

alright,, and thanks everyone for your input and tips.
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2008, 12:58:43 PM »

I agree with all that's been said above.  As far as the hows and wheres, if you do a search (the button is at the top of the forum) for euthansia or PTS, you'll find many discussions on the things to ask your vet (if you don't have one prior to making the decision), and the most humane methods.  It's a hard thing to deal with, but, as long as she's bright and happy, it's a decision you can put off for a while.
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2008, 01:17:02 PM »

I'm genuinely sorry that you have to go through this.  *hugs*
 Cry
I definately recommend doing your research now because having the info on hand when the decision needs to be made makes it a lot easier.  It helps to know what is going to happen.  The scary part of tumors is that they can reach a point where regardless of what your rat eats she is starving to death.  THe ratguide has a particular case study which may be of interest to you (caution, it's graphic):
http://ratguide.com/health/figures/mammary_tumor_figure_3.php

I waited to euthanize my girl Reese.  By the time I felt it was ready I realized it was too late, I hadn't paid enough attention to the smaller signs and she must have been suffering for some time.  I still feel awful about it.  Keep in mind that rats can hide pain well.  I am personally of the belief that rats should be humanely euthanized before they start to suffer, not after.  It is our responsibilty to give them a peaceful end, not a desperate one.  I believe that it's always better to wonder if it was to soon then to know for a fact that it was too late.

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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2008, 03:37:29 PM »

All of her nutrients are feeding the tumor and not her.  Sad  What about Nutri Cal or Nutri Stat?  It's a high calorie supplement, like a gel type stuff they lick.  Most pet stores will have it somewhere in the dog or cat health section.

I looked at the case study posted above...it made me cry.  Those poor ratties are bred for qualtity not quality and that's what causes most of the girls to be so sick.   Worry
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 03:41:53 PM by Heatherama » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2008, 09:33:08 PM »

I believe that it's always better to wonder if it was to soon then to know for a fact that it was too late.


*tear*
Can you get them pts at a petstore like Petsmart where they have kindof a vet thingy place in there?
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 07:29:29 AM »

No, you have to go a regular rat vet.  Those Store Vets are only associated with the animals in the store.
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2008, 08:54:33 AM »

Actually, I think she's talking about the Banfield vets.  They are real vets, I'm just not sure what sort of setup they have in terms of sedation.  You can call the Banfield, and see what their methods are for euthanasia, and if they'll do sedation prior to the injection or not...
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 10:50:25 AM »

Now that I really KNOW from experience the best way to put the beloved ratties to sleep when the time comes, I made sure with each vet establishment (and any emergency places we had) near me first.  Now I know them.  I asked if the rat could first be given just oxygen then have isoflurine (sp) gas GRADUALLY added in the oxygen so the little one relaxes and goes to sleep as it increases.  When they are certain she/he is totally asleep (test the eye to see if it blinks when they barely touch it for no reaction), they continue the gas while they give the shot in the heart that stops the heart.  Also, I ask if I am going to be allowed to be with my rat (I don't want them dying alone or with strangers).  I have an emergency place for after hours at one vet office (the actual ER in our area says "no"--so I say "no" to them) and two vet offices that let me be with them and do it this way for me.  It is a personal choice to be with them--and, of course, depends on if you can do it--I cry the entire time, but reassure the staff that I won't go over the edge --only cry and tell my rattie good bye and "go to the  light" and that I love them.  We have found (the vets and I) that rather that the small mask made for their size or small animals, the large dog mask is much better--they don't feel like we are trying to push something onto their face--the large mask is more like a container they can sort of halfway crawl into or crawl all the way into if they choose.  Two I have held in their soft pouches on the table with them climing halfway or sometimes then all of the way into the mask on their own.  Another we put the pouch in a small aquarium-type container and they had the air go into the container.  In this way (the oxygen and just gradual increase in isofluorine) they don't feel choked or gasp to breathe--they breathe and relax and fall asleep.  Even the shot doesn't initiate any reaction because they are like us when asleep for surgery.  I even held Lily while she got the shot--and trust me, I WATCHED in every case to make sure there was no reaction of pain.  I am only explaining this in detail because I didn't know when I held poor Sophie and cried and told her I loved her for three hours while she gasped for air and finally died--because I had no idea it could be so much easier and peaceful or I would have RUSHED her to one of my "approved" vets that day.  Good luck to you--we love them so much!   Sherry
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babygirl12
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2008, 02:49:42 PM »

Well today at the store i got her some baby food i was going to try to feed her, to see if anything might help her from wasting away as quickly. We will see how that goes, and thankyou to everyone who has helped me ii have learned alot about this. But in petsmart sometimes they do have rats in the store, and at animart the also do too. Does anyone know of any places i could go for this that are in or around Madison, WI?
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2008, 09:33:59 PM »

i've had no experience with these vets, but you might check with them:
Truesdell Animal Hospital 4214 Milwaukee St Madison WI 53714 608-244-2555
http://www.trueanimalcare.com/
or
Fitchburg Veterinary Hospital 6249 Nesbitt Road Madison, WI 53719  608-271-4212
http://www.fitchburgvet.com/index.php

i did a search for exotic vets. 
good luck with your girl. 
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2008, 04:58:37 PM »

I checked the links and it didnt really say anything about wat im looking for so i sent an email to both of them asking about wat they do for something like that. Thanks & im sure Ill find someplace thats gonna be good for her.   Smiley Cry 

PS: Lily tried her baby food today and she loved it. she kept grabbing globs of it with her hand and eating it. &&Ivory had to try some too..!!
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2008, 09:31:56 AM »

I heard back from one of the vets that i emailed and they said that the cost would be about $52.00 and cremation is about anbother $50. [[I dont want to sound cheap or anything]] but our family doesnt have alot of money right now and i dont know if we are gonna be able to afford that, but i really really dont want her to have to go through such pain.. do other places vary in prices or is that wat its usually gonna cost?
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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2008, 10:22:21 AM »

$52 isn't tooooo bad for a euthanization.  My vet charges $32.  I bury my rats at home.  Be sure that when the time comes, the vet first uses gas (just like a surgery) and then administers the final drugs.  *hugs*
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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2008, 10:44:11 AM »

That's a pretty common price. One of my vets charges $60, the other charges $80. It's just that iso gas isn't cheap and as far as euthanasia agent it depends on the quality of that as well and it is highly regulated. Some places are nice and do it cheaper for regular clients or clients in need but anymore vets are trying to steer away from euthanasia with treatment as much as possible. But if you truly think it's time I would find the means. Sometimes you can sell a couple of things (old video games, books, designer clothing, electronics etc.) or get a short term loan if you need to. There is also carecredit but I don't think Banfield takes that although other vets might.

You can keep her for a while and put her into the freezer until you can afford cremation as well. Some people cremate all of their rats together. That cremation price is very cheap and reasonable. I had a ferret cremated at cost and it was $150 (R.I.P. sweet Gidgy)
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2008, 01:02:33 PM »

Yes, that is about the price I have paid for each--but I bury them rather than cremate--so they are all buried next to each other and deep enough and next to our house in our yard where animals don't dig them up.  Good luck to you.  Sherry
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2008, 01:54:03 PM »

52.00 is kind of reasonable.  you can a. elect to bring her body home or b. elect for the mass cremation to save money.  you might want to call the other vet as some clinics don't like emailing on such a sensitive issue.   
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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2008, 06:31:30 PM »

Ok well my mom said that that is a reasonable price, since its what i want to do for her. Now i am not quite sure that it is time yet, because she still seems to be enjoying life, but then i cant really tell, since i was told they can hide pain. I dont want her going through pain, if she may be as we speak. I really dont know when it will be the right time, as this is my first rat. But i will keep everyone posted i guess about wats goin on with her.
 Heart
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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2008, 10:33:22 PM »

I believe you will know.  Trust your instincts about your own pet. Hugs to you and the little one. 
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