Looking to start all over again, & I want to do this right.

[kissmekillme2]

I used to have quite the brood, but unfortunate circumstances (rainbow bridge trips, severe behavioral issues that I could not afford to "neuter" away, & home issues while i still lived with my father) caused me to be left with naught but a cat & guinea pig.  The last cage that my girls had was inherited by my fiancé's guinea pig (and yes, i'm in the process of getting him to get her a buddy.) & I'm looking to start all over again from scratch.  It was (well, is) a 24wx24lx18h My First Home cage, & was wonderful.  However, I can't seem to find one again (plus, I'm unsure if I'd want to do any modifications on it, as the bar spacings are 1") and I want to get something more akin to the My First Home for Exotics cage.  I used to drool over a FN, but my wallet mocks me in that regard, plus I live in a dinky apartment.   What can you all recommend?  (I want to get 2-3 young boys & don't plan on allowing a case of "GGMR"!)

Also, I'm conflicted on bedding.  I used aspen & liked it, but everybody seems to be high off of carefresh & while I never cared for it, is this the best choice?  I'm considering the Kim's Ark (what was it, eco fresh?) paper bedding, simply because of the sheer amount you get for so cheap. 

Also, speaking of Kim's Ark, has anyone bought the 33lb boxes of HT?  Does it last a long time with 2-3 boys, is it worth the money?  Otherwise, I was considering a SueBee mix, but if it measures out to be similarly priced, which is the better alternative?

Also - what're the thoughts on boys vs. girls?  I love the sweet snuggliness of boys, but after having a few too many "over ballsy agressive" types, I balk.  However, my experiences with girls have been a tad too sporadic for my liking.  I had two females, Silhouette & Twister, that were *wonderful* (despite Silhouette's chronic bar chewing), but the various others I had were never too interested in me.  What also steers me towards boys is my current lack of reliable transportation + the area only seeming to have males + no local rescues.  Does *anybody* know of a good breeder or rescue close to Racine, WI?  I'm willing to go up to parts of Milwaukee, as we should have a car by the time I actually get my bubs, but that's my limit.  I don't like the WI humane society in Milwaukee, so that's not an option.  Also, i want to adopt young - When I say 'clean slate', I *mean* clean slate.  This dips into a sort of 'tabula rasa' thing almost. 

Please be kind in your responses - I know this seems weird, but some communities tend to be quite condescending when I've asked in the past about starting from scratch.

I thank you all in advance for your advice! 

[Selestine]

Most people I know feed both lab blocks (or high quality, low protein dog food) -and- Suebee's in conjunction with fresh fruits and vegetables.  With 2-3 young boys a 33lbs bag of blocks would last you like.. a year, so make sure that you keep it in the freezer!  I couldn't say for sure, but a batch of Suebee's should also last you quite some time.  Just so you know, you don't -have- to order 33lbs from Kim's Ark.. you can order in any increment you like.  I'd suggest maybe getting 15lbs (which would cost the same to ship as 10lbs, as per when I contacted them about this same thing) and that would give you a good six months supply of blocks.

I've heard a lot of complaints about Carefresh being dusty.  I have a bag myself that I bought as a holdover (Sorraia brought me some Coco-Rat today but I needed the Carefresh in the meantime while I freeze the Coco-Rat) and when I stick my hand in the bag, it feels quite dusty to me.  Perhaps you could look into Yesterday's News.. I've heard wonderful things about that.  I'm sure that the Eco Fresh is good as well.

Unfortunately, I have no recommendations for you as regards to gender.  I just picked up my first two rats today and they are boys, but I suppose I don't have any possible hormone based aggression problems to dread as my boys will be neutered as soon as they hit three months old.

I think that while the stereotype is that boys are snuggly and girls are not, it really comes down to the personality and not the gender of the rat that really matters.  Many people have cuddly girls and boys who want nothing to do with them.  My best advice is to hit the rescue and just see who you fall in love with, gender aside.

[Claymore]

Petsmart and pPetco have some decent cages.  Petco has a Rat Manor that people have said they really like, and Petsmart has some nice cages, you can check out the rat cages at V, and the super pet ferret cages at http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2769317&f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2769317&f=PAD%2FPet+Type+1%2FFerret&fbc=1&fbn=Pet+Type+1%7CFerret&fbx=0, including an FN.

Boys tend to be more mellow as they get older, but it doesn't really matter which one you get.  Girls tend to be more active, and not quite so snuggly, but I have 3 girls who sit quietly on my chest while I'm on the computer.  The personalities are something that you want to look for, and when they're young they may not have developed their true personalities.  The breeder or rescue will be able to give you more information about their personalities.  You know most of the rest of it.

As for bedding, you should be able to potty train your fur kids fairly easily.  Most people here use fleece or something like it for the floors and balconies, and bedding or litter for a litter pan.  The rats will pee everywhere, but it shouldn't be that hard to poop train them.

No clue about how long 33lb HT will last, and not had experience with Kim's Ark.  Some people have had poor results in getting emails answered, but there is another place you can get them, I don't remember where it is, but someone else will post it for you I'm sure.

Now for the breeders/rescues, this is what I've found:

Breeder- Jessica Thorn, J&J's Cozmic Starz Ratz, South Milwaukee, (414) 570-0447 or (414) 526-2154
Moma Moondancer's Rattie Rescue, Milwaukee, (414) 352-5897

You can probably ask them about other rescues and breeders in the area.  

The Milwaukee Humane Society has 2 male rats right now, Tim and Babyface.  Tim is 3 mos old, and Babyface is an adult.  You can see them at http://www.wihumane.org/animals/smallanimals.aspx

[cheerio]

The cages at petco are a great bet for 2 males to begin with. Having a bigger group will definitely require a bigger cage than the piggy cage, as the boys will definitely need plenty of room to run around and climb. I have 6 boys, and wow have they grown. I use fleece and Yesterdays news in my litter boxes. They did great with litter training. Only took a few weeks. I wash fleece 2-3 times a week, but right now it's because I have very small babies in the top of my FN with 3 boys, while I am doing intros with one large male who is in the bottom. I figure with the FN opened all the way up, the pee may be more evenly distributed and less washings needed  I don't like Yesterday's news for overall bedding, it just doesn't seeem comfortable, and lays weird. I used carefresh at first, but I realized how dusty it got after a few different bags, plus did jack for odor control and got expensive. Fleece is a heck of a lot cheaper, cleaner for me, and more fun to decorate with.

I used Kim's Ark for my first try with HT. My boys loved it and Tracy at the rescue was great in getting back to me and my package was shipped super fast. I ordered a large bag for cheaper through petfooodirect and froze the rest of it, but that much food would last you waaayyy to long. If you ordered the 15 lb box through Kim's ark (shipping is the same for all sizes, and it's only $1/lb-well, when I ordered it from them a few weeks ago), you could freeze the bags you're not using to keep it fresh. In the freezer it can last up to a year.

I have 6 boys. All the girls I have met have had tons and tons and tons of energy. My boys have energy, but are always willing to chill out and snuggle for cuddles.  I have had to have one neutered due to aggression, so I would strongly suggest, if you don't have the money for a neuter, make sure to get all of your ratties from the same place. Is there a reason you prefer younger? If you were willing to adopt- there are lots of young or teenage ratties looking for a great home- you may be able to know a bit more about their health and temperament, and some rescues include cages with your rescue. Just an idea. I have 4 rescues. I drove 4 hrs one way for one, 2 hrs one way for another. They were so worth it. I also just rescued 2 very young babies who were separated from mom way to early. Lots of money spent on vet bills, definitely worth it. I know that you say you have some limitations including funding stipulations. Perhaps before you invest in them, once you have all the supplies, then save for vet bills and then go get your ratties. Just so you're prepared. I've spent of $800 in the last 3 months for my boys. So maybe 2 instead of 3 too, just in case, one less rat to have to pay vet bills for. Not trying to be rude, just an idea, as it sucks to be in a predicament where finances take over. Good luck!