Every day I play with my boys I just fall in love with them even more... they are such fun little guys and are so happy and well-adjusted. Their cage is too small, they need to get into a bigger cage... but now I'm wondering, is it cruel of me to neuter them both just so they can live with the girls in the big cage? Surgery is always risky and I'd hate for anything to happen to either of them when they are so otherwise happy and healthy. I don't really have room for a second large cage for them... I could definitely afford one for them, but it would end up being on the floor in the middle of my already small room for everybody to trip over. I also don't know how much time I'll have to take the boys and girls out separately after I get this job. I like to have each group out for at least an hour a day, or I'll feel really guilty.

If they were being aggressive with each other, or had something medically wrong, I wouldn't feel so bad about this... but it just seems so mean to castrate them both just because my room would be less cluttered... though I know the girls would love them.

What does everybody think?  

Personally, I don't think it is cruel.  I have one neutered male that I got from a breeder intact.  I did get her permission to neuter him (before I adopted him), because the rest of my rats are female.  I have not once regretted it.  He was 3 months old, in excellent health, and recovered quickly.  I made sure that I had a vet who was very experienced, and I also came to terms with the fact that something could go wrong.  To me it's a very personal decision, because if something does go wrong, you have to live with it.  Wow that sounds harsh.  I don't know how to say that any other way though.  If you think it will improve their quality of life, then I see it as a positive thing.  However, I can understand why it isn't an easy decision.

Cruel? The only way you'd be cruel is if you let an inexperienced vet do the surgery or if either of them were not fit for surgery.

Other than that, neutering is perfectly fine, IMO. You just need to KNOW your vet is experienced with small animal/rat neuters, you have to trust your vet, and you have to ensure your rats are in shape for a surgery.

Look at what you gain -- no chance of an accidental litter, all of your rats can live and play together (The girls get boys to beat up and the boys her a harem) and some physical chances as well for your boys.

Their fur gets softer and they don't get quite as much buck grease anymore. For Hutch, he doesn't mark me with pee. I don't know if that's the same with all males.. and you lessen the chance of any of your boys going hormonal and causing themselves and you stress.

I don't think you're being cruel. However, as with any surgery there is a risk. Personally, I wouldn't do it.
I had two guinea pigs neutered-- one died-- although it was the vet's fault. He prescribed a dose of antibiotics so high it destroyed Charlie's kidneys. The next one, Max  almost died, and barely survived.
As for rats, I've only had females, but I do know someone who had their male rat neutered. He died of complications afterwards.

If it were me and I had two happy males together.... I wouldn't tempt fate. Now if you had only one male by his lonesome it would be different.

i dont think its cruel -- my own male is neutered to live with my girls, and i iwll be neutering my other male to do so as well - and i neuter many of my rescue males so that they can live with females as well!

We've neutered all our boys since we like to keep both sexes. The extended familiy that your boys and girls will gain through each other far weighs out any risks. They are such social animals and they rely on each for happiness. Go to a vet with lots of experience and belives in post op pain meds! Ask about Children's motrin for any discomfort.

If you've got an experienced vet whom you trust, and your rats are physically in good shape for surgery, there is still a risk...but it is minimal. If you think it will improve their quality of life overall, I would go for it.

I had two boys neutered accidentally today. They're fine  :huh:

3 weeks Ruthie!

I can't say if I'd have the boys neutered. I would most definately have a female spayed before a male neutered because the health benefits are great with spays (though when you have more females than males.. it's kinda hard). I'm always going to have more males than females. Anymore females I bring home will be spayed.. even after the scare with Newberry. That was a freakish thing though.. no test could've predicted that would happen. Anyway, I guess I'd feel really weird having a male not intact. If your vet is great (and I'm sure he is!) then go for it. But Newberry was completely healthy and we found out her blood doesn't clot well at all. She almost bled to death. There's risks.. so I guess if the good outweighs the bad, have at it.

Ok, you have a great vet, right?  Would you even think twice if you were having the same questions about cats or dogs? NO! I would say go ahead and do it.  It may not be for immediate, pressing health problems, but an improved social life and the opportunity to romp and play during out time for longer each day and with more friends just makes sense.  And it's better for them.  I think you would be improving their quality of life and not for selfish reasons.  It would be good for them to expand their horizons.  Go ahead......get it done. I doubt you will regret it.

*whispers* Do it! Do it!

Well, since there are so many other posotive outcomes, I don't think it's wrong. That is one of the reasons my boys are getting neutered.

Sadcat, I know exactly what you're saying! I also know that in the back of your mind (maybe unconciously) you're thinking you should just keep males and females separately so you can get more boys! Oh was it just me?

Anyways, I'm kinda in the same boat as you. I started out with girls, I have 4 girls, then got my first boy cuz I fell in love with him and thought I'd neuter him so he can live with girls. Before I could do that I got a rescue boy, and I was like, ok he can keep Leo company until he is neutered. Then I fell in love with this little bad haired boy so decided to keep him. Well now I have 4 girls and 3 boys. I'm wondering if I should just maintain 2 separate cages, the thought of neutering 1 boy was one thing but now I got 3 boys to worry about (and the cost of course).

Well so far I'm still gonng neuter them as soon as I can get the money (now that'll be over $300 for 3 boys, which is why it's taking so darn long). This is my reasoning. One, accidents do happen no matter how careful you are. I might one day forget to put one boy back before letting my girls out, and wham, I end up with 4 pregnant girls (see how paranoid I am?) Two, now I have to split my play time with them in half, letting them out one cage at a time. If I get my boys neutered I can let them free range together, for longer. It's just hard to see those little faces when one sex group is out, and the other ones are rattling the cage dying to come out too. I think so far this is my strongest reason for wanting to neuter them. Lastly, I'd like to maintain just one cage if I could. I'm planning on getting a Ruud cage and it would be nice for everyone to live there together.

Well there you go. I don't think it's cruel, I'm not too sure about neutering just to reduce their marking, smell, etc but since you have girls you're looking for more than that. And the boys will get more friends, instead of just each other. I think it's a good deal over all

It's just a more invasive surgery with the girls and there's more of a chance for complications, and I have four girls, while I only have two boys. I'd want to go to Firth (where Cous Cous had all her surgeries and where they love my ratties) and they'd probably charge about $300 for each neuter, even more for each spay. I give my girls Pau D'Arco for prevention, and if they ever did get mammary tumours (which I have dealt with before), I would have them removed, but right now it's just a lot safer and a lot cheaper to neuter two boys.

They are in good health, and I do have an experienced vet... and it is hard to have one group out while the other group looks sad and neglected in their cage waiting for their turn. I think more than anything I'm still remembering the Cous Cous phonecall... I don't want to get a call like that again. I don't want to lose another rat that way. Arg, I know I have to do it though, the girls know the boys are there and the boys know the girls are there. They want to see each other so badly, so I guess it's unfair to keep them apart.

Another one of those times were you'd give anything to just be able to tell the rats what's going on.