Some questions...

[Joe]

   I'm learning nothing teaches like experience. Or getting your rats before you get all the stuff you wante to have ready when they got there...

  A cage question. What do ya'll think. When their new cage gets here, would it be better to leave them in the 10 gallon tank until I've got them socialized and the move them to the R-695 or go ahead and move them when it gets here. They're just settled into their tank, and I hate to disrupt the progress I'm starting to make with them...

  What's a good blood clotter I could use?

  Would it be possible for the rats to consider me their "dominant rat?" Would it be O.K. for me to do the typical things to estalish dominance (flip them over, etc.). If I did, should I leave the dominant rat alone so I wouldn't mess up thier hierarchy, or would it matter?

[Anna]

I have two answers to your 3 questions. As for moving them, I have no idea.
For blood clotting (clipping nails I assume) use styptic powder. (sp?) I've also used flour when I didn't have anything else, and it helped too.
I play the dominant rat with mine, when they get too fiesty, or troublesome. All of them know that I'm on top, but they still have their own hierarchy. So I think it's fine, plus my ratties have been more affectionate towards me since I proved that I'm the boss.
Anna

[Joe]

plus my ratties have been more affectionate towards me since I proved that I'm the boss.

  Thanks for your help. And this is the reason i noticed. Last night, I was playing Beige, and rolled him over on his back like I would the dog. Well, he stayed there, I tickled his belly, he squeaked, and then he got up. Right after, he seemed much more inclined to let me pet him.
  I'm his favorite "rat" anyway. Bouncer and Hoss, though they play with Beige too, are best buds, and when I let them out of the cage refuse to leave each other's sides. It wasn't until I realized this that I began to be able to socialize them (I had to have them together so they wouldn't be scared).  They're almost to the point I can hold them without the other, but I'm not gonna do that until I'm sure they'll be O.K. with it. But Beige loves nothing more than to cuddle with me (he went to sleep cuddled up next to my leg during play time last night).

[Anna]

sounds about right, as long as you remember that *squeak* means uncle and let them up, they love to play that game!
I really am their favorite rat.
Anna

[Deedles]

How exactly do you establish being the "dominant rat"?

-deedles

[Anna]

Just like they do!
I flip them on their backs, and pin them down, when they squeak, you let them up.
After enough repititions of the squeaking, they know that you are bigger and stronger, thus the dominant rat.
Anna

[Ali]

Personally I'd move them into their new cage as soon as it arrives and you've got it organised.  They'll settle quite quickly, and all that room will make things far more interesting for them.

They sound adorable! Incidentally, I started doing as Anna suggested in a previous post (the dominant rat thing). I only tend to do it with the (currently!) dominant rat, Roger, and he has definitely turned into much more of a mummy's boy than the others. I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but he always rushes up for cuddles voluntarily (rather than being force-fed them!) Just remember that you are much bigger than your rats (I assume?!  ) so don't be too rough!

[em]

Not being funny, but how in the heck do you flip a rat?! I thought I'd try it with my girls (Josie is getting a bit big for her boots) but couldn't work out how to physically get her on her back! I can't just flip them over like they flip each other. Do you just pick them up and then put them down belly up, then pin them? If so, that could be trouble in itself - Josie is not keen on being picked up...

[Anna]

I roll mine over, it's hard to explain...
if you push from one side, you can flip them. Kinda like driving a jeep.
Anna

[WS]

You don't really need to flip a rat over (which can be taken as an aggressive move if not done in what the rat understands as the spirit of play) in order to be understood as the dominant rat.  

- Most rats understand that we are the "alpha rat" in the group much in the same way dogs do. (The behavioral similarities between rats and canines are numerous).  Our size and manner of interacting and petting establishes us as dominant without the use of force.  Simple over-the-head petting is an act of non-aggressive dominance, for example.

YOU CAN play with your rats in the same way that they PLAY with eachother to establish dominance. - Chasing with your hand, wrestling, nudging them...but be very careful and gentle and remember you're only PLAYING even if one rolls over on his back like a puppy.    - I wouldn't recommend flipping an unsuspecting rat over and holding him down.  You really can't force a rat to flip over... although some will when playing with you.

You can play and interact with your rats as a human... you will not disrupt their hierarchy. You will stay at the top.... rats do relate to us as part of their "pack" but I think they understand that we are different and they go about their little rat-things when we are not around.  


Blood clotting?  Styptic powder or pencil??

I recommend the wire cage over the tank 100%  -- rats get used to new digs quickly.  

[em]

Mine move too fast to flip from the side  

Thanks for the advice guys, I think I'll stick with what I'm doing now ie holding them on their back in the palm of my hand (just gently, fingers curled under their arms -they can get away if they want) and tickling their bellies - usually to the accompaniment of "AWWWWWW wookit da cute wittly watty belly oooooh kiss kiss kiss". Sometimes they love this and sometimes they get this resigned kind of look, like they're thinking "Yes, I know I'm beautiful, do you insist on worshipping me so enthusiastically".  

[Anmllvr731]

  I'm learning nothing teaches like experience.

Wow Joe, did you hit it right on the mark with this statement. How true!!

I would move them into the martins as soon as you get it set up.
Good luck

[Suebee]

Kinda like driving a jeep.

*snicker*  

[Ali]

Just reading WS's post and wanted to clear something up cos I feel like I sound mean! I don't actually flip Roger over on his back (I've never taken that literally) - unless he's being forced into tummy-kisses! -  and he never squeaks at me, it's just hand-wrestling really. He attacks my hand, I attack him back. First one to run away loses (you have to 'lose' a bit too, or it's not fair!)

Of course you can only do it if they're up for it in the first place!  

[Anna]

Please don't get me wrong, I totally agree with Ali, you can't do it unless they're up for it in the first place.
If you are all play wrestling (and you lose too) it's part of the game for them to roll over and squeak. Some give up more readily than others. (Muffin sometimes gives up when she's winning!)
If they look like they want to fight and play with your hands, it's a possibility. I do roll them over on their backs, but only after I've lost once too.
Most of all, it's a gentle thing, just part of ratty bonding.
Anna

[Ali]

My poor little Fly (though he's the biggest of the boys) - he gets flipped so often by his brothers.... The other night I went to pick him up to give him a cuddle and he just rolled straight on his back and squeaked before I even touched him! Poor honey.