one of our new babies had some mites/lice on him...we never found anything visible on any of the girls, but they have been scratching quite a bit...they've been being treated for over two weeks now(with ivermectin, and we've been bleaching everything), but they're STILL scratching quite a bit...is this normal? could the ivermectin not be working for some reason? what can we do?

well, I did think about that before, the food they were partially on was a bit too high in protein, but we switched them off of it probably two weeks ago..they never itched abnormally before the new baby with the mites came into the home, could it be the change of food?

they're scratching quite a bit, like, at any given point I look at the cage, there is most likely one of two scratching or about to scratch. no scabs or missing hair on anyone but pudge(she obsessively scratches). It could be not enough ivermectin, however. I gave them their most recent dose, but the one before that was a bit light. What should we do in this case? if the scratching doesn't lesson by the last dose, I think we'll be heading to the vet..but other opinions/ideas are always nice to hear.

How big are your rats?  Come to think of it, I believe it's one grain of rice per pound of rat?? ..... so you could be underdosing.

here's the url about it:
http://www.ratfanclub.org/skin.html

Seems to me that Lonestarrat recently responded with the 'per pound of rat' doseage ....

I wish I can say the same thing in reference to my latest additions to our family. Gemini apparently has sensitivity to the paste and not the injection...in the past his previous (experienced) Mama gave both he and his brother Mercury paste (grain of rice method). A day after their second dose Gem was in a lethargic state bleeding from his mouth, an "allergic" reaction the vet said. Maybe the paste wasn't completely mixed, an expiration issue, or even an accidental overdose (highly doubtful), we'll never no.

When they were placed in our home we had to get rid of these retched mites one way or the other. With assistance from our team of Exotic vets the "Bionic Four" we tested out a minuet dose of ivermectin via injection, every ten days to see if his body was okay with it. After about a month we upped the dose to half a dose and then finally the show stopping full dose...Well he's fine with it.

His brother Mercury on the other hand has a reaction around the injection site, which we all agree must be the solution that is in the ivermectin causing the skin ulcers (not uncommon). I hate skin ulcers! Especially on my baby. So now Mercury is back on the oral (not paste, liquid). The only ivermectin fatalities I've heard about involve ivermectin paste, not the injection. One might ask if that indeed has something to do with an overdose of the paste. I'll take skin ulcers over bleeding from the mouth/being half dead any day.

After 4wks of injections, we like to do a little back up treatment...that has worked wonders in the past. Basically we get a vile of ivermectin and use the same dose on them...but instead of injecting it we cut a piece of hair off in between the shoulder blades and apply the ivermectin on to the skin. Letting it soak in, while keeping each ratty away from each other for at least 45mins (making sure it's thoroughly soaked in). It's strictly maintenance, and is approved by or vets because it can only help. Although it all won't soak in giving a full dose, it at least keeps a steady flow of ivermectin in their system - Killin those muthas :afro:

thanks everyone..I'm pretty sure the problem was underdosing..we have a few larger females that are well over a poud and were still getting a dose probably smaller than a grain of uncooked rice..the boys are all young and quite a bit smaller at this point, and they have stopped itching. I don't think it would be the bedding at all, considering they've been on the same type of bedding for nearly a year and have never shown sensativity before(would it be odd that they all randomly started being sensative to it..?). As far as a skin infection of some other sort goes, that could be a possibility, but I doubt it. the new baby that came into the house itching had visible lice, after being treated with ivermectin, he's now completely stopped itching. the cage is kept clean and we get bedding in bulk and haven't gotten a new bag recently   could they have gotten a bacterial or fungal infection anyway? could the bedding have developed some sort of catchable fungus from sitting there too long?(it's kept very dry and nothing gets into it or anything). Today is their last ivermectin dose and I can tell just by looking at the container that there's more left than there should be. sorry, I"m babbling  

Just out of curiosity, did you have the bag of bedding near the cage when the mites/lice were active...if so your going to have to chuck the whole bag.  

If the self inflected wounds are not healing within a week, I'd definitely call your vet for some baytril...they could have a bacterial infection by now.  

Good luck!  

Edit
Like Kmw said, with paste you most definetly need to go 4-5wks

If the scabs "self inflicted wounds" don't heal in a week (being wk 3) that means a bacterial infection has more then likely kicked in not allowing the scabs to heal. By wk two the scabs really shouldn't be present, then again there was an issue of under dosing. Most vets are pretty concerned when scabs don't heal because this can be a sign that the mites are weakening the poor thing, making it more susceptible for other aliments.

I know how much it sucks to have to throw away a hole bag of Carefresh $$ bummer!

I know a lady that is currently giving Ivermectin to all 37 of her ratties   $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...that being said, I don't feel as bad when an outbreak happens to our colony of 11. It just proves that things definitely can be worse.

this is just NOT true - ivermectin neurotoxicity is WELL documented - in fact, it is not recommended to use it in any collie/herding breeds because they are SO sensitive to it. im not sure where debbie D is getting this information, but it certainly is not applicable to mammals as a whole, because ivermectin toxicity is a real and present phenomenon in the veterinary field.

in fact, babyblue033's charlie bear is suffering permanent neuro damage from ivermectin -- selena, tell the tale?

Just wanted to make clear that Debbie D. did not say this.  That was my inference, based on her explanation of how it works on GABA.   I'm aware of the collie thing and it's certainly clear to me now that some individuals are certainly sensitive.     I had thought that the toxicity arose from highly concentrated doses given via inadequately mixed paste and that the risk was low with a normal level dose.  

I was researching Ivermectin because I wanted to get a shot myself last  week!  I was miserable from all the mite bites I got at the Menlo rescue house.  Luckily they don't seem to be breeding on me, but they sure itch!  

Regarding the skin ulcers from the shot:  Debbie D. also said that she prefers to give shots on the side skin, because the skin on the back of the shoulders and neck is thicker (for protection against biting).  Maybe the thinner skin would be less prone to abscess?  

All things to discuss with your vet, of course.

I did find reference to dermatologists administering it for scabies, but I'm not sure they still do it.  Then there happened to be an article in the paper about low GABA levels associated with the loss of brain function.       As if I need MORE loss of brain function. So I dropped the idea.

 Not that there was any mention of an association with Ivermectin and permanent low GABA levels.  But it was enough for me to take the most conservative path.   I seem to be doing okay with cleaning, cleaning, CLEANING.   Next time I see a dermatologist I'll ask about human dosing.

 I'm hoping that the mites that bit me can't thrive without another host.  I haven't got any new bites since I've been to the rescue house.  I'm going to get the dog some Revolution, which works on sarcoptic mites, the next time she goes to the vet as an extra precaution.