(sorry folks, i decided to do this one privately)

This is not a good thing.  However, it is better than some of the cases I have been a very sad "witness" to (I wasn't actually there, or I'm sure there would have been human blood spilled):
1.  An out-of-business snake food breeder drowning all of his rats methodically, one by one, until there were only two left (saved by his housemate, given to me).
2.  A girl/woman who decided that she was bored of her pet rabbit.  She shot it with a BB gun.  When it didn't die (duh!), she just left it there bleeding and in severe pain.  It had a deadly wound, but was not dead - she just went about and did chores.  A friend of hers very kindly shot it in the head with a real gun, putting it out of its misery.

Of course, people do some messed up things to humans sometimes, too.  This woman in the area I live in hit a homeless man with her car, and he got stuck in her windshield.  She then drove home and parked the car in the garage.  He died after several DAYS of begging her for help.  

I'm not saying that submitting an animal to the SPCA is a bad thing.  I'm just saying that it is better than some of the alternatives.  Since I don't know her reasons for giving up the guinea pigs (they are so wonderful!), I cannot make a decision on this matter.  Simply put, I was not there.  

I did give a horrible rabbit to the SPCA once.  He had a brain tumor, and I was really upset about the whole thing.  I'd only had him for 6 weeks, and he'd started attacking me and my cute guinea pig!    I talked to a friend that worked there, and she said to bring the rabbit down and surrender it.  That way, I didn't have to make the decision to put it to sleep myself.  So, in essence, I shirked the responsibility of putting a baby rabbit to sleep.  In retrospect, I don't know why I did it that way.  But there ya go.

Breeding should be left to experts. It should be done only to improve the breed, and not because "babies are cute" or "my friends want one"!

Anyone wanting an animal should go to a shelter or rescue. Millions of animals are slaughtered in shelters each year due to ignorance and irresponsible breeding.

There is never a good reason to breed petstore rats or mutts. Don't add to the problem, please.

"Don't breed or buy while shelter animals die."

Quite frankly, I'm disturbed by the fact that you have bred your female despite being told she is too young!  I won't get into the breeding ethics, but the least you could have done is wait until her body is mature, before stressing her out by having a litter.  

my private message was not sent to you kady but to another board member commenting on something that was written.

just to get things straight - yes i have some friends on these boards, yes i respect their opinions. but i DO NOT SAY THESE THINGS to make or break friendships - i do these things for the rats. what we told you is not because we dont like you, or want to give you a hard time - this is what is best for both YOUR rats and for ALL rats.

every single day i deal with people who are irresponsible - people turning animals over to shelters, rescues, etc. dont be proud that you turned your animal into a rescue - if people were responsible with their animals, there wouldnt be a NEED for rescues. being purebred isnt a guarantee this wont happen to them either - good dogs get put down every single day.

maybe if everyone took some time to volunteer in a shelter and held a perfectly adoptable dog while they were euthanizing it, people would have second thoughts about bringing animals into this world unnecessarily.

quite the contrary- very FEW of us do breeding.
those of us that have litters are usually RESCUES. my litter is from a 4 month old female that came into my rescue pregnant with her third back to back litter.

and driving a car doesnt make you an adult.

on a side note about the purebred dogs (this isnt towards you kady)--

i firmly believe that if you BREED dogs you should do it with a purpose - to improve that breed. there are enough mixed breeds in the world right now without having to go out and breed more. purebred dogs were made pure because they once served a purpose in life (at least most of the dogs, save some of the toy group). if their lines are to be maintained, then purebred lines are a must. inbreeding is a result of IRRESPONSIBLE breeders (theres that word once again!) that breed poor quality dogs. if your dog is purebred and deserves to be bred, then i want to see some titles after it to prove to me that it can do what the breed was meant to do. for instance i have a doberman (rescued, neutered and poor quality). were he to be bred, not only would i want him OFA cert, MSU thyroid, vWD clear via DNA test, CERF cert, etc but i would want to see 1. conformation titles that prove he is what the standard doberman should be 2. temperament tests (not just CGC but ATTP, etc and the GERMAN tests that dictate the standards) 3. working titles (not just obedience and agility but Sch - not just protection but tracking as well, and this also involves temp. testing).
you need to PROVE that a dog should be bred- and this is what makes a responsible breeder. anyone can get a dog with limited AKC papers and breed it. putting a male in with a female does NOT make you a true breeder.

mixed breeds offer the advantage of hybrid vigor - but they also suffer a worse fate because they are not purebred. some people want purebreds - because you can offer at least a guess how big, what kind of temperament, adn their suitability for certain lifestyles. i just did an exam yesterday for a family that had a puppy shipped from a shelter in VA (im in MA) and they told her it was a border collie mix and would max out at 60 lbs. too bad its actually a great pyr mix adn will weight AT LEAST 80 lbs - because there are no guarantees with these dogs of questionable heritage. i love my mutts just as much as my pure (poorly)bred dog. but i woudl never breed with the intention of producing more mixed breeds.

there is no need to register mixed breeds - you can do the same health testing on them as any purebred, you can compete in the same things that the purebreds do. if you need to know where to look to get a good dog, look at your local shelter. its not the breeding of dogs that needs to be looked at - we need to look at society as a whole that fails to take responsibility for their animals. if the animals were spayed and neutered, their would not be overflowing shelters. some people will want animals from a breeder that is purebred (similar to those of us that have rats from breeders), and some of us want the ones in need (rescues).

personally, i have rats from both breeders and rescues, and one pet store rat. the rats i have from my breeder friend is a breeder that is EXCEPTIONAL in every sense of the word - proven by the fact that her rats show up in lines not only in new england where she is located, but across the US. if i were to ever buy a dobermann rather than rescue him, i would search out the best breeder - not the one with the ads in the back of dogfancy, or the ones with the cool websites. i actually have a breeder already picked out - she lives across the county, but her dogs have titles that make their names three lines long. her dogs are international champions and compete against the german lines (who are by far the strictest in their breeding) consistenly. her dogs are all working dogs and have proven they could do the job that herr dobermanns dogs were meant to. and she has a waiting list a mile long - because she breeds one litter every two years.

will i wait? of course i will - because her dogs are worth waiting for.

dont blame the responsible breeders or the purebred dogs. the fault lies in society that encourages irresponsibility, be it in backyard breeding, puppy mills, or simply refusing to spay or neuter their pet.

I agree with your last point.  I know there are people who have a litter every 2 or 3 years - they are not breeders, but they have an understanding of what having a litter will involve.  HOWEVER, I STILL take issue with your headstrong desire to breed your female NOW, disregarding the advice offered saying she is too young.  She is.  I hope it all works out for you and your young mom.

As for people not being nice, I disagree.  There are several other rat boards out there full of misinformation and constant flame wars.  This is not one of them.  People here may feel strongly about their opinions, but it is because they have seen what the consequences of acquiring or breeding on a whim are.  And wish to have others not make the same mistake.      

On the contrary, I think this board is filled with nice and caring people.

It is a mark of immaturity to say that people who disagree with you are "mean".

The people here who disagree with breeding an 8 week old petstore rat are doing so out of concern and experience. They don't know this poster personally and I'm sure are not setting out to be nasty and cruel.

I don't know how someone who dumped a guinea pig because it "smelled" is going to cope with a litter of rats - if they survive!
As to dogs - there are approx. 38,000 of them listed on Petfinder, and many of them are purebred.  When someone wants to "get rid of" an animal, they don't care if it's a 3$ rat or a 600$ dog. I say again - leave breeding to experts!
Oh, and I think this thread should stay - it's very educational.

Yes, you "gave away" 2 of your guinea pigs and a bird when having them in your care was no longer convenient for you. And now you have deliberately bred your baby rat.

And you call ME "ignorant"...?

Can we all say....  COUNTERPRODUCTIVE???

Hey, I got an idea!  Instead of realizing that this young person may have gotten in over her head and being there to help her when she and her rats might need us the most, let's just bash and berate her until she feels like she can't come to what is very likely the most comprehensive source of rat help on the internet.   You wanna know what?  Perhaps the rittens will do badly, because she didn't feel comfortable coming here to ask whether she should be concerned about this symptom or that one, because with our collective experience we could have said "yes, worry about that.,"  or "no, that's common."   And wouldn't we all have a laugh then, pointing at another human being and saying "Look!  I told you so."  

Golden Rule:  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.    

Let the next person who posts something critical here be the one who can look in the mirror and say "I have never made a mistake, especially with my rats."   (I seem to remember a whole thread dedicated to how we feel about the initial mistakes we made as rat owners.  Oh, how quicky we forget.)  

Oh, geez, why do I always have to have another perspective on things.   I get myself into so much trouble.  Well, I guess if it's bad enough I can just delete it later.  

the goals of the posts (at least mine) were to provide help BEFORE the problem arose. mainly, that these rats will most likely be homeless and poor quality. and yes i can say this because i get about 2 emails a week from people who just thought "hey, one litter wont be hard, right? but now we cant place them" WRONG. i run a rescue, but i do not do this to clean up after irresponsible breeders.

forget name calling and nitpicking. we have told her time and again that the ability to reproduce and the ability to reproduce SAFELY are two separate things. the safety of her rat was blatantly ignored, as were messages that implored her to at least find a male that was healthy and had a background that would prove his line temperamentally sound and healthy. and i personally dont believe that pet store animals should be bred.

and yes, her background was brought up. because the past tends to repeat itself. i wouldnt be proud to turn my animals over to a rescue - as a matter of fact, i maintain a list of people who turn their animals over to me to make sure that they dont get rats again from breeders and rescues in my area. shelters do this all the time - we call them the DNAs - do not adopts.

breeding does become a hot topic because there are many of us on this board with other peoples unwanted rats. and i will continue to speak out on behalf of these animals.

natalie, i agree with you.
i may not like that she bred, and i definitely woudlnt take her rats in, but i would never deny them the information that they need to help them. if she was going to breed, we at least wanted her to do it right.

and i didnt even SEE the kissy face until now!