another harlan teklad question

[Anna]

Is the 2018 an ok diet?
http://www.teklad.com/index.htm
it's the only one I can find. I know that 8604 was recommended, but I can only get the 2018, the 8664, or the 2016.
Anna

[scout]

I think it's a little high in protein, and corn is the second ingredient, so it wouldn't be my first choice. But I think if you feed other grains, like oatmeal, with the blocks, it would be fine.

Actually, looking at the H/T site, that particular one is lower in protein than either the 8640 or 8604. It should be fine. All the H/T diets are supposed to be complete diets for rats, so you would theoretically only need to add fruits/vegetables daily with the blocks.

[Anna]

So if I can ony get the 2016, 2018, or 8664, I should go for the 2018?
I'm a bit confused by all the percentages, not really sure what I'm looking for, but it has to be better than the kaytee lab block(yuck)
Anna

[Suebee]

I don't know... the 8664 is soy-based instead of wheat... I'd be inclined to go in that direction for the soy... but the protein is much higher (probably because of the soy content).

*head spinning*

I don't know.  

[Piper]

Isn't 24% protein a lot?

I'm going to order Harlan Teklad for my rats and I always assumed I was going to order the 2014 since it only has 14% protein...

[Suebee]

Isn't 24% protein a lot?

A little, but it's comparable to the other lab blocks on the market. For girls it would be fine, though I would be a little concerned about males.

[Jodi]

Scout and Sara (Marwin), can I ask which you recommend (and anyone else who uses them)? Scout, thanks for the ordering info you gave me yesterday. RMCA only carried the 8604 (was it the 8640 that you use, Scout?), but if it's a good choice, I'll order it. I really want the best for my boysies!  

[Dearpie]

This is where I order my Harlan Teklad from.  It's 18% protein, but not sure which "model" number.

http://www.ratlovers.org/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=4&subcat=3&cat=Food

I order 3 bags at a time and it's just under $20 to be shipped to Phoenix.

[Marwin Rattery]

I feed my breeding/pregnant/lactating/just weaned babies the 8664.

I feed my boys the 2018. 18% protein is fine for most males.

For my elderly boys I feed them the 2016.

Corn is fine in the diet, as long as it is cooked, like HT is.

This diet has been used for years and years at Harlan, with great results....obvious proof corn is not an issue for rats...by that, I mean that corn in a pelleted diet or fresh corn, NOT dried corn(which is the kind that can have hazardous mold/bacteria).

I also caution everyone NOT to add fruits to a rats daily diet, I have seen sugar, in any form, cause obesity, diabetic symptoms, and bumblefoot. I urge my rat buyers to only feed fruit or any product containing sugar, yes, that included yogies, to only feed it twice a month, maximum. None at all is even better...but not realistic for most people.

Veggies certainly are good...to add 3-4 x's weekly.

Also, IME, sunflower seeds should be a part of the daily diet...in small amounts. Great for essential fatty acids, good skin, reproduction. I even see where Suebee has added them to her diet...glad to see it.

If you have further questions, please feel free to email me privately.

Sara K

[Piper]

Buying the 18% kind from Ratlovers.org is convienent and cheaper than RMCA.

So 14% or 16% wouldn't be better? I guess 14% is too low even for boys?

[Suebee]

The only reason I use a 14% dog food is because they get other things in their diet that have protein (soy products)... otherwise, yeah, it's a smidge low.

[Jodi]

Okay, I just ordered the 18% (appears to be the 2018) through the ratlovers site! We'll see how my boys like it. Thanks so much to everyone for all the great help/advice!  

[Raven Paw]

I have a question about HT blocks as well.  Do any retail stores carry it?  I would rather buy it at a store than order it on line all the time.  Plus, I'd like to get a higher protein block for my breeding hamsters, and I can't find anywhere online that sells that.  Can anyone help me out with that?

[Suebee]

Unless there is a small feed store near you that carries them, they are rarely found in stores. The big chains only carry Kaytee.  

[Raven Paw]

Hm, there are some feed stores near me.  Do you think they might possibly have it, or will I just make a fool of myself if I call and ask them?  Is there somewhere online that sells several Harlan Teklad diets?  Sorry I'm asking so many silly questions!

[Suebee]

Maybe you can contact H/T instead, and ask them if they have any distributors in your area.

[Marwin Rattery]

Kim, from Landmark Rattery, is distributing Harlan Tecklad feed. She will ship, prices are decent.
Contact her for details: landmark@kc.rr.com

I'd love to see HT in stores, but Suebee is right, the usually sell crappy Kaytee (gag, I hate it). SOMETIMES you can find L/M Square Meal, which is pretty good, or Sunseed brand blocks. They are expensive, though.

HT is great food, and very reasonably priced. My guess is that with shipping it will be equal to, if not less than blocks bought at a retail pet store. But dont quote me on that!  

Sara K

[Sabriel]

Also, IME, sunflower seeds should be a part of the daily diet...in small amounts. Great for essential fatty acids, good skin, reproduction. I even see where Suebee has added them to her diet...glad to see it.

Sara, I'm not sure if you remember, but a few months ago you told me to add sunflower seeds to the boys diet, because they were rusting.  Well, it went away after that and it hasn't come back yet!

[Maddie]

What is best to feed rats, a homemade diet like Suebee's or Sara K's, or Harlan Teklad lab blocks??? There is so much contraversey and I just want a simple answer!!  

[Dearpie]

I use both ...  how's that for easy! hehe  I always have both available at all times.

[Christy]

I would love to try this, but none of my rats will eat lab blocks anymore.  They just throw them at the dogs.  Do ratties tend to like the H/T better than other blocks?  I just hate to waste my money on lab blocks that are just gonna become dog treats again.    Do they send out sample packs that I could try?

[Jodi]

Maddie, I'll echo Dearpie's answer. Why not use both? I think a variety of all the good foods recommended is probably the best approach.  

I just ordered some HT blocks, and I'll just try adding them to the mix I already give my rats at first and see how it goes. I might end up making some adjustments later on, but overall, I want my boys to have a variety of foods to result in a well-balanced diet. My biggest concern right now is that a couple of my boys only pick out a few of their favorites from the mix they are getting, so I'm always making adjustments to try to ensure variety for all of them.

[Raven Paw]

That's what I was planing on doing, feeding them about half lab blocks, half home made grain mix.  I'm not to sure about dog food.  I wonder if it's really necessary?  It can be so hard to find a good brand.  But, being omnivores, I am wondering if rats need some meat in their diet?  And if so if dog food is the best way to provide that, or what?

[Dearpie]

My 3 older boys LOVE the dog food part of the mix and I frequently have to add more dog food.  However my 2 newer boys will NOT eat the dog food at all!  They DO ENJOY the lab block though!  The 3 older boys will eat the lab block also, but prefer the dog food.  The lab block and dog food provide the hard crunchiness to help keep their teeth from growing too long, so SOMETHING hard and crunchy is necessary.  I'm about to omit the raw pasta from our "Suebee's Mix" and now none of the boys will eat it at all!  They're also snubbing their rattie noses at the raisins I've included in the mix.