Visit to the new vet tonight (sorry, very very long)

[Ali]

Well - we've just got back from the new vet's office...

Wow, it was so different. The place I normally go is part of a chain and very modern and flash. This was much more basic. Just one vet there on a shift too - and she was sooo young!

She was very nice. I explained the whole situation and asked about the doxy. She was honest and said that she'd never used it on rats, but she sat down and looked through all her literature (and also phoned the head of the surgery to check) and said that she was willing to give it a shot. YIPPEE !!!  

Unfortunately, she didn't have any in the surgery, but she's ordering it and it should come in on Tuesday (Bank Holiday this weekend unfortunately). She's getting it in powder form and will put it in suspension for us. She's going to work out the dosage too cos she wasn't sure (and being an idiot I forgot to take the drug chart in). She's given me some spare baytril just in case they start looking worse over the weekend. We're going to start giving the doxy on it's own, and then in combination with baytril if it doesn't work.

I know it's not ideal cos she doesn't sound totally sure of herself, but (PLEASE say you agree - I need reassurance!) at least we're trying something different. She was sweet with the rats (a bit too gentle - they were wriggly and I had to tell her she could hold them a bit more firmly!)

Sometimes I think I'm just being paranoid - last night they were fine, hardly any sneezing, and very little porphyrin. But Badger was still very squeaky as he sniffed around, and Fly is a bit too. She said their lungs still sound fine so it is probably still URT.

Does anyone think I AM going over the top? I don't want to medicate them unnecessarily (they've been on baytril about a quarter of their lives already!), but on the other hand I can't bear the thought of not taking any action and then losing one (or more) of them. Anyone who's seen a gasping attack will know how awful it is.  

Finally, one BIG plus about this place as far as I'm concerned..... the other practice I go to refuses to use gas to anaesthetise rats before they put them to sleep. My first girl had an injection in the stomach, and needed two of them. The second one, I asked them to anaesthetise her first, but instead of gassing her they 'compromised' by using a sedative shot in the scruff first, then a shot in her heart. She was very distressed by the first shot, and still felt the second. It was horrific.

Anyway, this vet uses gas first, then the injection. I know it's morbid to ask, and (hopefully) looking far ahead, but it's a relief to know that this is how they'd deal with it.

I've always had confidence in the first practice because it's so big, but I'm beginning to wonder (after my experience of trying to get a second opinion from another vet there) whether they are made to work to particular guidelines without going outside them (drugs to use, methods of euthanasia etc). Is that possible?

Anyway, I'm really waffling now. I'm still nervous because when I told Simon about it he was concerned that this new vet hadn't tried this treatment before but was just willing to go along with what the customer wanted.  (I can always find something to worry about).

Sorry this is so long - if you haven't died of boredom yet please let me know what you all think!  

[kmw]

I have far more confidence in a vet who will listen to suggestion, than one who simply refuses to consider anything but their treatment, especially with such uncommon animals as rats.  My vet doesn't have a large rat practice (I'm "the girl with rats" - tells you how common that is!), but he neutered Sam, and was willing to listen to me when we've talked about Max's sneezing and courses of meds.  He took a copy of the drug chart, and filed it away, as well as other articles I've brought in.  I think a vet with little knowledge who is willing to learn is far better than a vet with little knowledge who is not willing to learn    

[Suebee]

I think you did the right thing! She sounds like she's willing to learn, comfortable with the rats, and is willing to listen to you. She may not have the most experience, but she sounds like she's got the right stuff to become a great rat vet!

Of course, she's more than welcome to come here! We may not be vets, but she'll still be able to learn a whole heck of a lot from our first-hand experiences.

The fact that she was willing to look up info on doxy at your suggestion makes me think that she might very well appreciate a copy of Rat Health Care, too.

[JulesDoug]

Well done Ali at last progress...it sounds like shes prepared to try and to listen and to take your concerns seriously...I am so pleased for you all!!

[Louise]

It sounds like the visit went quite well Ali.  Like the other poster's said, she is willing to listen and learn, that is a good thing.  How you felt is really important too, I think you need to feel good about the vet yourself regardless of how experienced or not they are.  It sounds like you had a good feeling about her and maybe your are right, the large practice could be more like a chain, where each office has to follow the same rules.  Biggest is not always best.

I think your worrying about your ratties is completely normal!  I worry about Willow, some days she makes a funny noise and somedays she doesn't, it's hard to know when and if you are doing the right thing!  Rattie paranoia is totally normal - in my opinion!

Good luck with them ) they are lucky to have such a caring mum

[Paul]

Ali, sorry about this but I'm going to do a "that sounds fine, but....", here.

We had a keen young vet as well; one who would listen to and act upon all the suggestions we picked up from books and the internet.
After some time we got to thinking about it and realised that WE had become the vet and HE was merely the person handing out the meds.
And when we thought about it further, we realised that it was a quite unsatisfactory situation - and NOT really in the best interest of our girls.

Because Aileen and I are NOT vets - we are not trained and are not knowledgeable enough to be able to properly diagnose rat illnesses.
The stress of having our little girl Ros being ill, me spending hours on the internet researching and then us taking the responsibility for the vet care as well became unacceptable.

It got to the stage that I was sleepwalking almost every night - Aileen says she would find me shuffling across our bedroom floor and when she asked what I was doing I'd apparently explain I was trying not to step on rattie tails!
The Girls, it has to be explained, were all the time safely tucked up in their house - downstairs!

While I'm not suggesting that you're as neurotic as me (mind you, I have read some really weird posts from you    ) for your own peace of mind and, more importantly, your boys good health, I would urge you to consider continuing your quest to find a rat-knowledgeable vet.

Paul

[SonyaFancifulRats]

Ali, sorry about this but I'm going to do a "that sounds fine, but....", here.

We had a keen young vet as well; one who would listen to and act upon all the suggestions we picked up from books and the internet.
After some time we got to thinking about it and realised that WE had become the vet and HE was merely the person handing out the meds.
And when we thought about it further, we realised that it was a quite unsatisfactory situation - and NOT really in the best interest of our girls.

Because Aileen and I are NOT vets - we are not trained and are not knowledgeable enough to be able to properly diagnose rat illnesses.

I probably sound amazingly American, but I really think we SHOULD be that involved with our own and our pets health care. I have seen enough bad vets and enough bad doctors to know that if they recommend something, I am going to second guess it, and I will offer my own ideas.  If my rat is ill, I am going to know as much as possible so I am armed with the information that I need to work WITH the vet to find the best solution. It is much much better IMO to have a vet who is willing to learn, than a vet who thinks they know it all and won't listen to other ideas ( like Ali's first vet).

IF there was a rat-knowledgeable vet near her, that would obviously be the simple solution, but she faces what I face, there apparently IS no one. I was happy with the service I received at the "cat and dog" vet and unhappy with the service at the "exotics" practice that was an hours drive away. The "cat and dog" vet looked at my literature, was impressed ,  we discussed the medications together, decided on a course of action, and cured a bad bout of repiratory illness when I thought my Drew was a goner. The exotics vet picked my rat up by the tail and tore off a toenail, and discounted everything I told him and my own opinions.

Ali.. I hope they do well on the doxy and it clears up any lingering sqeaks and wheezes and sneezes!

[DebW]

Sounds like you did the right thing to me too.  I have 2 vets.  I like them both.  One is more knowledgeable on rats, but is 45 minutes away.  The other is 10 minutes away and takes care of my cats too.  I'm also known as "the one with the rats" at my local vet.  

She's like the one you just went to. She's very open to suggestions, will call someone and has both Debbie D's rat health care book and the updated drug chart from RMCA.  She'll often ask me what is currently being used and what I think we should try.  I have a lot of confidence in her for my "normal" rat problems.  If it is an unusual or very serious problem I head to the other one.  By the way, both vets know I do this and are OK with it.

[Yresim]

for your own peace of mind and, more importantly, your boys good health, I would urge you to consider continuing your quest to find a rat-knowledgeable vet.

I agree that an excellent rat-knowledgeable vet would be the best thing.  That's what we all hope for.  But it is not an option for everyone.  

In Ali's case, we are comparing:
1. a guy with a little bit of knowledge who isn't open to suggestions or alternatives
2. a girl with a little bit of knowledge who is open to suggestions and alternatives, and who is willing to learn.

The fact that the girl did research on the medication before agreeing to dispense it to the ratties indicates (to me) that she is willing to learn more about ratties to help cure them.  

She is not making Ali do all of the research.  However, if it were not for Ali, she wouldn't know she had to do research.  Most likely, she can understand medical & scientific terms that Ali can't, and she also probably has access to resources that Ali doesn't have access to.  Not to mention the fact that she has a knowledge of animal medicine, which assists in the care of all animals (even if it applies to some animals more than others).  

On a different note: great news Ali!!!!  And I do think you should get her a copy of the Rat Health Care book.  

[Rat-love]

she might very well appreciate a copy of Rat Health Care, too.

Actually, it was my vet who told ME to get a copy of RHC.  (Dr. Melissa Nathanson in Seattle).  And now, I can't help promoting it whenever I can!  I'm sure your vet could do with a copy as well.

While I'm at it, I'm kinda with Paul regarding the idea of continuing to search for a vet more experienced with rats, even if as a supplementary resource if you stick with this new, good vet.  And by the way, I'm VERY glad that you decided to try another vet.

I've been watching these topics... hope everything gets better!  

P.S.  I'm going to create a separate topic about antibiotics that you might be interested in reading, as it may help you and the new vet decide what to do.

[Ali]

Thanks everyone for your positive feedback. I  feel much better about things. I agree that a rat-pro would be best, and I'll keep on looking, but I'm going to give this place a chance.

I discovered the practice had a website and checked it out. They offer all the services that the bigger practice does. It seems much more personal. I'm hoping that because it's a small practice rather than a chain they'll go the extra mile (unfortunately small businesses tend to have to work harder than larger ones!). There are only 3 vets in the practice too, so there's more chance you'd get a vet you know in an emergency call-out.

I also discovered that the vet I saw last night only qualified less than two years ago! Freaked me out at first, as she's obviously not going to be very experienced at all. But looking at it positively I guess that, unless she's very arrogant (and I didn't get that impression) she's still going to be doing lots of research, getting advice etc, and I expect she's still being kept a close eye on.  And be less likely to set in her ways.

Oh well, we'll see what happens. Sod's law - the boys have hardly sneezed or wheezed at all the past two nights!