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My rat has vaginal bleeding *Update 8/12 some answers*
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Topic: My rat has vaginal bleeding *Update 8/12 some answers* (Read 2517 times)
Heather
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #30 on:
May 16, 2008, 11:29:00 PM »
Quote from: rodent_girl_1985 on May 15, 2008, 12:32:13 PM
Quote from: Heather on May 15, 2008, 12:24:29 AM
Quote from: rodent_girl_1985 on May 14, 2008, 04:23:10 PM
I took her to the vet at 11:45. It was my regular vet who I trust more than anyone else besides myself with my rats (it's just too bad that he doesn't spay rats himself). He looked her over very well. He realy thinks it's a very bad vaginal infection, because she's acting normal, is eating and drinking, and is not losing any weight. He has her on Baytril.
Sorry, but my girl nearly bled to death and was not acting abnormal, refusing food/water and didn't lose any weight either. That is poor advice from the vet. Not every condition can be determined life threatening or not by a few vague symptoms. It doesn't take much blood loss for it to become life threatening for an animal that small. A high dose of antibiotics will likely not stop the bleeding if it's ongoing. You may lose your girl. You can try Baytril but a spay is really what she needs. Why doesn't your vet learn how to spay? Mine didn't know how until she worked on mine. She had to call the University and read the procedure from a textbook while doing it.
My vet gave the best advise he could. He told me he wanted to try Baytril first, but did warn me to keep a very close eye on her.
He knows alot about rats, he's even the one that suggested I look into a different diet for my rats other than lab blocks after one of my boys developed a tumor. He said most lab blocks have too much corn and can cause cancer in rats.
I've only seen the bleeding twice on Buffy so far, and that was yesterday. I haven't seen anymore sinse giving her the meds.
He also told me that spaying might not be the best option for her because of her age (she's almost 2). He said that spaying itself is a very risky surgery, but can be even more risky as the rat gets older.
Please do not insult my vet again. You may have a different opinion than he does, but that does not call for insult. He is the kindest vet I've ever come across. He loves my rats and always handles them so gently. He's worked with rats for years, and probably knows more about them than I do.
Being a good person really has nothing to do with a vet being competent. If you wish to take my post as an insult to your vet then that's your choice. I hope your rat will be ok but if not then perhaps this will be a learning experience. Unfortunately some of us did learn the hard way by losing one before we stopped taking the issue lightly.
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rodent_girl_1985
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #31 on:
May 16, 2008, 11:42:21 PM »
Quote from: Heather on May 16, 2008, 11:29:00 PM
Quote from: rodent_girl_1985 on May 15, 2008, 12:32:13 PM
Quote from: Heather on May 15, 2008, 12:24:29 AM
Quote from: rodent_girl_1985 on May 14, 2008, 04:23:10 PM
I took her to the vet at 11:45. It was my regular vet who I trust more than anyone else besides myself with my rats (it's just too bad that he doesn't spay rats himself). He looked her over very well. He realy thinks it's a very bad vaginal infection, because she's acting normal, is eating and drinking, and is not losing any weight. He has her on Baytril.
Sorry, but my girl nearly bled to death and was not acting abnormal, refusing food/water and didn't lose any weight either. That is poor advice from the vet. Not every condition can be determined life threatening or not by a few vague symptoms. It doesn't take much blood loss for it to become life threatening for an animal that small. A high dose of antibiotics will likely not stop the bleeding if it's ongoing. You may lose your girl. You can try Baytril but a spay is really what she needs. Why doesn't your vet learn how to spay? Mine didn't know how until she worked on mine. She had to call the University and read the procedure from a textbook while doing it.
My vet gave the best advise he could. He told me he wanted to try Baytril first, but did warn me to keep a very close eye on her.
He knows alot about rats, he's even the one that suggested I look into a different diet for my rats other than lab blocks after one of my boys developed a tumor. He said most lab blocks have too much corn and can cause cancer in rats.
I've only seen the bleeding twice on Buffy so far, and that was yesterday. I haven't seen anymore sinse giving her the meds.
He also told me that spaying might not be the best option for her because of her age (she's almost 2). He said that spaying itself is a very risky surgery, but can be even more risky as the rat gets older.
Please do not insult my vet again. You may have a different opinion than he does, but that does not call for insult. He is the kindest vet I've ever come across. He loves my rats and always handles them so gently. He's worked with rats for years, and probably knows more about them than I do.
Being a good person really has nothing to do with a vet being competent. If you wish to take my post as an insult to your vet then that's your choice. I hope your rat will be ok but if not then perhaps this will be a learning experience. Unfortunately some of us did learn the hard way by losing one before we stopped taking the issue lightly.
If you don't have anything useful or helpful to say, than please keep your rude comments to yourself and don't waste space where someone can give actual advice. My vet is competent, and knows what he's doing. I am not taking this issue lightly, I've spent $80 on her in the past week alone trying to get her better, plus I nearly had an emotional breakdown yesterday. It's taking every bit of my strength to keep it together emotionaly for my girl. So don't you dare come here with your condesending tone, thinking your all knowing, and insult me. You do not know more than me or my vet, and you have no right to talk to anyone that way.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #32 on:
May 17, 2008, 08:11:19 AM »
i think everyone on this thread needs to take a breather from it.
one you have a sick rat
two you asked advice that opens people up to all kinds of things
three others have went through similar things
four its not an issue to take lightly
five no one is insulting in my veiw your vet all vets need to continue their training and stay up to date but you have felt that way so bid
six. if you trust your vet fine then do what he says others my self included have said you neeed to see another but ULTIMATLY THAT IS YOUR CHOICE
so with this said everybody take a breather and calm down and keep this place what its for advice and help.
not a yelling match because that does no one good.
sorry off my soap box may not be my place but have managed forums(no more) before and tempers can flair when two people veiws dont match.
BIG DEEP BREATHES AND PRAYERS and healthy recovery
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #33 on:
May 17, 2008, 09:59:51 AM »
I don't see anything wrong or condescending with Heather's post. She's been through the same thing, and was sharing her experience and advice.
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rodent_girl_1985
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #34 on:
May 17, 2008, 11:15:01 AM »
She was implying that I was taking the situation lightly, which I can tell you I am not. I've been making myself sick the last few days with worry. She was also saying that this would be a learing experience for me, which for someone who has lost some beloved rats, is insulting.
I am going to the best exotics vet in town. I've been too all the other vets that treat exotics, and they almost wound up killing my rats because they didn't know what they were doing. No, I don't know why he doesn't do spays, but I do trust him. He told me straight out that it could be a tumor, but that it could be an infection and he would rather try treating for an infection first. I'm not going to him to save money or anything, he's more expensive than my last vets. And as I've said many times, I could take her to the only vet in town that does spays on rats, but I don't trust him within a mile of my rats. I've heard too many stories about him not knowing much about rats. And it's impossible for me to drive 4 hours to Austin. If I had a job and money I would, but I don't. I am unable to work for health reasons, so I depend on my mom to pay me for doing work around the house.
The only advise I asked to begin with was what could cause the bleeding, so i could run them past my vet. I did, and he said it's one of two tings, a tumor, or an infection. He chose to try the least dangerous treatment first.
I have never taken the health of my rats lightly, nor will I ever. Whenever one has gotten sick I was at the vet immediately.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #35 on:
May 17, 2008, 11:37:13 AM »
i sympathize with you but please hear me out. I have lost a couple of girls to vaginal bleeding and that was with immediate vet care. the first girl must have been cleaning herself so well that we didnt know that she was even bleeding until it was too late to do surgery as she would not have made it thru surgery becuz she was too unstable. The treated her with steroids and antibiotics that first day and by the end of the day we knew the correct decision was to have her pts.
The 2nd girl was a rescue that we didnt' know the age other than she was over 2 years old. She was as sweet as they come and she quickly become one of our favorites. Her bleeding didnt seem as heavy and it stopped on its own so after being given the options by the vet, I chose to treat her with antibiotics and steroids at home. She did great but then the bleeding started again with a vegance. I learned from that experience that I will get a girl spayed immediately and not mess with the antibiotics and hope again.
As parents of human children we make choices everyday for our children and this is no different. No on purposely hurts their children with these decisions. Its no different with our rats.
The peice of advice that I would give you is this. If you are on such a tight budget then I might suggest keeping male rats in the future. I feel that they require less vet care as they are not as prone to as many types of problems such as the mammory tumors and pyometra, pregnancy, etc. Also if you do decide to neuter them it is less expensive.
My son is moving out and he wants to take a couple of the rats with him and since he will be on a tight budget we decided that the two boys we have would be the best option for him at this time...even though he loves loves the girls.
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rodent_girl_1985
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #36 on:
May 17, 2008, 12:06:20 PM »
Quote from: tonivan on May 17, 2008, 11:37:13 AM
i sympathize with you but please hear me out. I have lost a couple of girls to vaginal bleeding and that was with immediate vet care. the first girl must have been cleaning herself so well that we didnt know that she was even bleeding until it was too late to do surgery as she would not have made it thru surgery becuz she was too unstable. The treated her with steroids and antibiotics that first day and by the end of the day we knew the correct decision was to have her pts.
The 2nd girl was a rescue that we didnt' know the age other than she was over 2 years old. She was as sweet as they come and she quickly become one of our favorites. Her bleeding didnt seem as heavy and it stopped on its own so after being given the options by the vet, I chose to treat her with antibiotics and steroids at home. She did great but then the bleeding started again with a vegance. I learned from that experience that I will get a girl spayed immediately and not mess with the antibiotics and hope again.
As parents of human children we make choices everyday for our children and this is no different. No on purposely hurts their children with these decisions. Its no different with our rats.
The peice of advice that I would give you is this. If you are on such a tight budget then I might suggest keeping male rats in the future. I feel that they require less vet care as they are not as prone to as many types of problems such as the mammory tumors and pyometra, pregnancy, etc. Also if you do decide to neuter them it is less expensive.
My son is moving out and he wants to take a couple of the rats with him and since he will be on a tight budget we decided that the two boys we have would be the best option for him at this time...even though he loves loves the girls.
Believe me, thats one piece of advise I already promised myself. Unless I am better off in the future, and live in a town that has a vet that does spays, I'll only have boys.
I'm not holding my breath, but Buffy does seem to be doing much better. I haven't seen any bleeding for the past few days, not even on her hammocks or liners, and she's eating, drinking, and playing as usual.
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Moondust
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #37 on:
May 17, 2008, 03:26:11 PM »
Quote
Believe me, thats one piece of advise I already promised myself. Unless I am better off in the future, and live in a town that has a vet that does spays, I'll only have boys.
I'm not holding my breath, but Buffy does seem to be doing much better. I haven't seen any bleeding for the past few days, not even on her hammocks or liners, and she's eating, drinking, and playing as usual.
I'm very glad to hear that she's feeling good. She's been in my thoughts and I hope that you are doing okay too. *hugs*
I put the part about euthanasia not because I thought that it was needed now, but because in a case like pyometra (which is very much like appendicitis, just in a different organ, same symptoms and course of infection) it can go downhill VERY quickly and not having much money = no access to emergency vets. There's nothing worse than waiting until a monday when your girl needs relief saturday. *hugs* I hope that didn't sound callous at all. We don't even know for sure if it is pyometra, but if it is from all the reading I've done it says even if you sucessfully beat it with antibiotics (it's a very rare treatment, but it has been used in dogs with pyometra where the owner is trying to keep the animal fertile for breeding purposes), you'll probably need to get her spayed ASAP because she is 70% prone to reinfection (that's whats quoted for other species and I'd assume rats aren't that different).
I didn't even know this condition existed in rats, which horrifies me because I own 5 females. I did all sorts of research on the different kinds of tumors, and symptoms of PTs and URIs and all the common disorders but this is one condition I missed. It made me run home and check my girls. It makes me think that as soon as I can get the money I would like to get my two youngest spayed, to nip many of the problems in the bud. I'm uncomfortable with older rats going through anesthesia, even though many people have had great experiences. It has been shown that age is a factor in survival and recovery, and I don't like the idea of putting my oldest three through it. An emergency would be different of course, I'm just referring to routine.
I hope everything goes well and she pulls through without troubles. *hugs* Take care of yourself too.
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rodent_girl_1985
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #38 on:
May 17, 2008, 04:35:14 PM »
Quote from: Moondust on May 17, 2008, 03:26:11 PM
Quote
Believe me, thats one piece of advise I already promised myself. Unless I am better off in the future, and live in a town that has a vet that does spays, I'll only have boys.
I'm not holding my breath, but Buffy does seem to be doing much better. I haven't seen any bleeding for the past few days, not even on her hammocks or liners, and she's eating, drinking, and playing as usual.
I'm very glad to hear that she's feeling good. She's been in my thoughts and I hope that you are doing okay too. *hugs*
I put the part about euthanasia not because I thought that it was needed now, but because in a case like pyometra (which is very much like appendicitis, just in a different organ, same symptoms and course of infection) it can go downhill VERY quickly and not having much money = no access to emergency vets. There's nothing worse than waiting until a monday when your girl needs relief saturday. *hugs* I hope that didn't sound callous at all. We don't even know for sure if it is pyometra, but if it is from all the reading I've done it says even if you sucessfully beat it with antibiotics (it's a very rare treatment, but it has been used in dogs with pyometra where the owner is trying to keep the animal fertile for breeding purposes), you'll probably need to get her spayed ASAP because she is 70% prone to reinfection (that's whats quoted for other species and I'd assume rats aren't that different).
I didn't even know this condition existed in rats, which horrifies me because I own 5 females. I did all sorts of research on the different kinds of tumors, and symptoms of PTs and URIs and all the common disorders but this is one condition I missed. It made me run home and check my girls. It makes me think that as soon as I can get the money I would like to get my two youngest spayed, to nip many of the problems in the bud. I'm uncomfortable with older rats going through anesthesia, even though many people have had great experiences. It has been shown that age is a factor in survival and recovery, and I don't like the idea of putting my oldest three through it. An emergency would be different of course, I'm just referring to routine.
I hope everything goes well and she pulls through without troubles. *hugs* Take care of yourself too.
Thanks so much for the possitive thoughts, there very appreciated.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #39 on:
May 17, 2008, 05:27:49 PM »
Rodent Girl,
I had a girl who had minor vaginal bleeding and then quickly developed what appeared to be a tumor nearby. The first vet tried antibiotics but refused to adjust medications. I swapped vets. He increased antibiotics heavily and the bleeding did recess. I made the appointment for exploratory surgery and tumor removal.
He told me her uterus was almost the size of a cat and she most definitely had pyometra. In my case the antibiotics probably bought me time. She did also have a mammary tumor.
Is there a reason the vet won't spay or is it because he does not feel confident in doing so? If he treats other pets (spays cats/dogs) he should be able to do a rat.
I truly hope you find a good resolution to this.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
«
Reply #40 on:
May 17, 2008, 07:43:23 PM »
Why not ask your vet if he's open to consulting other, more experienced vets about spaying rats?
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NightmareWolfie1
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #41 on:
May 17, 2008, 10:01:05 PM »
Woah, the callousness of some people amazes me.
It sounds like your vet is doing what he can, seeing as he doesn't spay.
And at this point, if I were you, I'd try to save up some cash while she is doing well,
And get her to another vet, just to get a second opinion.
I've had to do the same thing. Even though I trust my vet, sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry, you know?
Also, seeing as she is being herself, euthanasia doesn't seem to be a viable option at this point.
It would very well have just been an infection.
But for peace of mind, I'd take her to a second vet.
I know that the drive may seem long, but maybe you could check and see if there are any rescues in your area?
They usually have good vets nearby, and if not, some shelters spay and neuter...
Always an option.
Keep us posted on your girl.
I'll be thinking of her.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #42 on:
May 17, 2008, 10:31:13 PM »
Thanks for keeping her in your thoughts. The thing is, I probably live in the worst city to own a pet rat. I live in Corpus Christi Tx, and the closest rescue is in Houst on Tx (5 hours away). There are only 4 vets in town that treat exotic pets. One is Banfield in Petsmart, and that vet killed one of my first rats. My rat had a minor URI when I took him there. He didn't give him the right meds so it quickly developed into a major URI, plus my rat became dehydrated. He then gave him meds to pull the liquid out of his lungs, which would up killing my rat.
I then switched vets. I had a boy last year that had a pitutary tumor. I knew it was a pitutary tumor, but oh no, the vet was positive it was an eye infection, so he treated him with meds. It got so bad with my boy that he started having very bad seizures. Thats how I found my current vet. I took my boy there for a second opinion. My vet took one look at him and said it was a pitutary tumor, and should have been treated as such from the beginning. It was too late so he had to be put down.
The only other vet in town is the one I don't trust. It used to be a great place, but the main vet retired and it's now very dirty and the vet there says he knows so much about rats, but people I've talked with says he doesn't and has made some very tragic mistakes.
One of the nurses at my vets clinic used to work in Houston with a vet that treated many exotics. She says that my vet is the best she's ever worked with. He knows alot about exotic pets, and has worked with them for years. He just doesn't feel comfortable doing a spay on such a small animal. He says it a dangerous surgery on dogs and cats, but with a rat it's double that because their so small.
He doesn't think it's pyometra(sp?) because the blood she had coming out has no odor to it whatsoever, and she was in no pain, even when he felt her abdomen.
All other vets in town and surrounding towns here the word rat and they either laugh or give you a funny look.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #43 on:
May 18, 2008, 12:25:02 AM »
neither of my girls had an odor to the blood. The second one I know for sure had white cells and bacteria in it so was definately infected. The reason we did not do an immediate spay was becuz there was only a small amount of actual blood loss going on at the time. With the antibiotics and steroids we could get the bleeding under control, keep hydration up, strengthen he up a little and do surgery in a couple of days.
they actually took a swab of the discharge and looked at it under a microscope. smell unfortunately is subjective and not always indicative of an infection.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #44 on:
May 18, 2008, 08:28:02 AM »
Tonivan's post made me think of something.
Could your vet swab and test the blood?
Wouldn't that be able to tell you if it was pyometra?
And maybe an xray?
I'm not very familiar with pyometra, but wouldn't it show up as a mass on the xray, where an infection would not?
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #45 on:
May 18, 2008, 04:10:09 PM »
pyometra is an infection and it might show up on an xray but not be definative. I think the swab would be the best at this point followed by a spay..hopefully scheduled and not as a middle of the night emergency.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #46 on:
May 18, 2008, 05:17:41 PM »
Ok guys... I think it's understood that a spay is an option.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #47 on:
May 18, 2008, 08:44:04 PM »
A swab would have been great, but unfortunately she wasn't bleeding anymore when I got to the vet. That always happens to me. If one of my rats is sneezing or showing signs of a URI, those signs "mysteriously" go away once the vet comes in. I had taken the pics I took of the bleeding with me to show to the vet. Good thing I did.
I think we can say that at this point, not so much because of cost, that a spay is not an option for me.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #48 on:
May 18, 2008, 08:48:09 PM »
Watch her VERY closely and treat immediately if you should ever see more bleeding!! Good luck with her and keep us updated.
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #49 on:
May 19, 2008, 09:05:51 AM »
Quote from: rodent_girl_1985 on May 17, 2008, 10:31:13 PM
Thanks for keeping her in your thoughts. The thing is, I probably live in the worst city to own a pet rat. I live in Corpus Christi Tx, and the closest rescue is in Houst on Tx (5 hours away).
I have been to that area and there really is NOTHING around
. Are you closer to San Antonio? I can't remember...I was in the area a year ago. I also went to Del Rio, but I am not even sure if that is in the same area.
Good luck to you and your girl. I hope something can be done and I am sorry you live in such a small town with nothing around...when I went to Texas, I felt like I was lost in the middle of no where with only a Walmart around (literally).
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Re: *EMERGENCY* My rat has vaginal bleeding *graphic pics*
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Reply #50 on:
May 19, 2008, 10:53:36 AM »
Quote from: undergunfire on May 19, 2008, 09:05:51 AM
Quote from: rodent_girl_1985 on May 17, 2008, 10:31:13 PM
Thanks for keeping her in your thoughts. The thing is, I probably live in the worst city to own a pet rat. I live in Corpus Christi Tx, and the closest rescue is in Houst on Tx (5 hours away).
I have been to that area and there really is NOTHING around
. Are you closer to San Antonio? I can't remember...I was in the area a year ago. I also went to Del Rio, but I am not even sure if that is in the same area.
Good luck to you and your girl. I hope something can be done and I am sorry you live in such a small town with nothing around...when I went to Texas, I felt like I was los