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Author Topic: what will too much protein do? How much is too much scratching? Is puppy sham...  (Read 186 times)
haleyboo
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« on: September 04, 2008, 04:09:19 PM »

  • what will too much protein do?
    I currently give them dog food as their staple and it is listed at 21% protein. I've heard that it shouldn't exceed 18%. What will happen if I don't fix it?

  • How much is too much scratching?
    I notice that all three of the boys I have scratch their sides at regular intervals. I've checked them for flees, but they don't seem to have any.
     
    • Is puppy shampoo bad for them?
      I got some sort of "extra-gentle" puppy shampoo that has lavendar scent, but will it hurt their skin.

    • One of the rats I have occasionally has wet sneezes and wheezes.
      Is something wrong with his respiratory system?
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haleyboo
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2008, 04:14:22 PM »

oh, and one more question...
I've been noticing that one has a really rough coat compared to the others. He has more buck grease, so I was wondering if that is why?
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Selestine
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2008, 04:44:02 PM »

I'm not even remotely close to a rat expert (or even a rat amateur, I suppose) but from what I've been reading lately:

Too much protein can cause itchiness and scabbing.  This could be why you're seeing them scratching at regular intervals?

A lot of people have suggested using Dawn dish soap to give ratty baths.

For the ratty with the buck grease, I've read that a bit of olive oil on bread a couple of times a week will help clear up the buck grease and make his coat healthier.
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Suebee
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2008, 04:49:17 PM »

An excess of protein can cause skin and coat problems, including itching and scabbing.

You say you feed the 21% dog food as a staple, but what else are you feeding them? If you are also feeding them a grain mix like my recipe, that will balance out some of that protein.

That said, 21% is still a tad high... Wink
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Addicted2Rats
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2008, 04:54:06 PM »

Too much protein is really hard on rats' kidneys and can cause kidney disease if you continue feeding a higher percentage than is necessary.  You will also see too much weight gain if you feed over 18% protein to a young rat.  18% protein is recommended for young rats under 6 months of age.  After 6 months, you can switch to a food that has between 14-16% protein.  Harlan Teklad makes several types of lab blocks -- HT2014 (14% protein), HT2016, and HT2018.  They make some other lab blocks too that have a higher protein percentage for pregnant/nursing rats.  You can also go to a pet store and find a good quality dog food that is in the Senior or Lite version -- those usually have about 14% protein and are higher in fiber.  One of the foods recommended is Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul Senior.  Another one is Holistique, in a green sparkly bag -- I can't remember who the manufacturer of that is right now.  That also has 14% protein.

Puppy shampoo is ok to use for bathing a rat.  But honestly, you don't really need to do it unless they've gotten into something and are a total mess.  Rats are usually pretty good about doing a decent job of keeping themselves clean.

If you're seeing wet sneezes, I would definitely bring that rat into the vet's office to be seen.  They can give some medication (usually Baytril and doxycycline) that will help him get better.  He should be kept on the antibiotics for no less than 3 weeks.  The sneezing can be due to mycoplasma flare-up (a bacteria that is always present in a rat's nasal passages), and can progress into pneumonia if it isn't treated.  Rats are good at hiding signs of sickness, and by the time they start showing it, they are VERY sick and need to be treated quickly or they will die.  Here's an article about mycoplasma and how to treat it.  You might want to print it out and bring it to the vet's office, if they have any hesitation about treating the rat for three weeks.

http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php

Deb
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haleyboo
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 04:57:43 PM »

gah! oh no!

I didnt realize! Well, I babysit, and I am happy to say that my spending jar reserved for the rats has really been filling up. I'm only allowed to spend 22.5% of my income, so I'm babysitting as much as possible. My parents are wonderful about letting me owe them and pay later for vet bills, so I'll take Jake to the vet ASAP. How much do you think it will cost? I guess I should get out the phone book, since different vets charge different amounts.

I've also been feeding them the Suebee mix with the dogfood, with a few modifications. For the rice puff cereal from kashi, and the puffed wheat cereal, I substituted two boxes of Kashi 7 whole grain puffs
( http://store.kashi.com/heritage_pk.aspx?SID=1&Category_ID=72& )
and I've added an entire extra bag of fried bananas. I've also used salted unshelled sunflower seeds (for people), because at the time I couldn't find the bird kind. I've found it now, so the next time I mix a new mix, I'll use those. I have the Total, the craisins (though I wonder about the sugar content for both), and the soy nuts. I can't remember if I added the oats, but I don't think I did because I figured that the 7 gran puffs had enough oats in it already. Gosh, what should I do about the dog food? I have a really nice brand (corn is not in the first ingredients), with enough to fill a juice container.

Since I live in Hawaii, shipping Harlan Teklad would be expensive, so I'll have to choose between that and Jake's vet appointment. What do you think is best? Probably Jake. My dad's deployed, I only have a permit, and my mom doesn't drive, so I'm limited to the base's commisary for food (it's walking distance). Maybe when dad gets back in a week I'll be able to convince him to take me to find better dog food. What should I do until then? Do you think they'll be okay? I've had them since June 15th. I believe they were exactly 7 weeks when I got them. Jake couldn't have been like this for more than a month (at most), but I've been feeding them like this since I got them.

Goodness, I'm really worried. Thanks for all y'all's help!
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 08:44:51 PM »

I live in Alaska and ship HT in flat rate boxes.  It comes out cheaper than the food I can buy local, and would be the same exact price for you (for 15 lbs (my rats eat about an ounce a day) 15 dollars + 9.05 or so for shipping, the rates go up over time).  I would recommend it, especially since you are having trouble finding a suitable dog food.  I'm personally under the opinion that dog food is made for dogs not rats, but many people do not share that opinion.  I make my cat food from scratch, because I don't believe much of the pet food on the market is worth anything.

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chiropteragirl
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 08:59:22 PM »

Suebee's and dog food is just fine. If you are feeding the dog food with Suebee's, the dog food evens out the higher protein dog food.

I would try to find unsalted sunflowers seeds. They are a lot better for rats. Too much salt isn't good. As well, I would take out the fried banana chips. As their name suggests, they are deep fried, as well as being soaked in sugar!

Instead of dried fruit, I like using dried vegetable flakes. (Like you put in soup) They are very nutritious but low in sugar!
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haleyboo
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 08:09:54 PM »

I'll go ahead and get the harlan teklad, then. Where do you recommend I go for ordering?
I'll also check out the veggie flakes. I think the commisary should have something like that.
The rats really, really like the bananas, so maybe I could try finding a recipe for home-drying bananas...

I try to give them only little bits of the food that I eat for their treats, but I'm scared because I wonder if whatever I give them will add up over time and be bad for them. I try to keep it at pure veggies and fruits for their treats, though they really like peices of spaghetti!

I'll keep you all posted (in case you happen to be interested). Thanks SO much for the help.
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