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Rats Rule! => Rat Care Corner => Topic started by: Bananana on September 27, 2011, 05:17:55 PM

Title: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 27, 2011, 05:17:55 PM
Okay, I apologize in advance for the length of this.  I wanted to be thorough and give you guys as much information as possible to work with. I tried to format it so it wasn't so intimidating to tackle, though.

Background (for those who haven't seen my thread about them):  A little less than two weeks ago, I adopted four female rats from a long-time GM member who made it sound like she had been running (or working with) a small rescue, and then her life got out of control and she was in urgent need of homes for her remaining fosters.  But when I went to meet her to pick up my girls, I was horrified by the condition they were in.  She had repeatedly told me they were perfectly healthy but they had obviously been horribly neglected in the three months she had them (they were all too thin, all had URIs and mites, one had untreated pneumonia, one had an untreated bladder infection, all were horribly impacted with feces).  Full story starts near the middle of the page here: http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?topic=4090578.0

Anyway, given the condition these rats were in versus how the woman I adopted them from had described them, it seems reasonable that she may have been slightly dishonest about some other things too. 

That brings us to the problem at hand: 

The other day, one of the girls (Cooper) started showing frantic nesting behavior (like ripping apart everything in the cage and balling it up in a huge pile in the corner).  I looked her over and noticed that her belly was protruding a bit and she had some hair loss around her nipples.

Pictures:

(if you tilt your screen back, you can see the nipples in the third picture a little clearer)

(http://i.imgur.com/UO09Nl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HrDtel.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ErJ2sl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/V8TpZl.jpg)

I've been through a lot of different things with my rats, but this is a new one for me and I need help. This is especially complicated because a) Cooper was too thin when I adopted her and has been gaining weight anyway, so it's impossible to tell whether the weight gain is normal or possibly pregnancy-related, and b) it is possible that she has had a past litter (or litters), which might make her nipples look deceptively pregnantish. 

I can't get in to see my vet today, but he's supposed to call me soon to discuss our options for later in the week. In the meantime, I have some questions:

1. Does she look pregnant to you?

2. Given that Cooper is about 18 months old (possibly younger, though), currently in stable health but recently in very poor health, in your opinion, would an e-spay or labor be more dangerous for her?  I've really fallen hard for this scraggly little thing and I want to do what is best for her (I'll also ask my vet about it, but it's a tough decision, so the more opinions/considerations the better). 

3. What does a pregnant rat's belly feel like? Should I feel lumps? What if I don't feel lumps?

4. If she's pregnant, about how far along does she look in the pictures?

5. If this isn't a pregnancy, what else could it be?

Okay, thanks for any help you can provide. I know this is long, so don't feel like you have to address everything in your answer. Any information at all is appreciated. 


Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: smilez_n_hugs on September 27, 2011, 06:00:27 PM
She looks preggo to me and in the little experience I have when they look preggo espaying isn't an option. In my opinion espay would be better for her but I think she's too far along (hopefully your vet will have a different opinion). As for the feel, just because there aren't any lumps doesn't mean anything either way. A preggo belly can feel just like a fat belly and I would guess she is in her last week.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: applecavy on September 27, 2011, 06:19:28 PM
She definitely looks pregnant...but I didn't think there were any males at that girls house?
It's possible that this is just from having access to a great diet.

Honestly I would go for the espay (for a lot of reasons) primarily because of her age. 18 months is old for a litter...like...
really old.

I wouldn't want to put her through that. You should see what your vet says, because while spays are obvious risky, this
litter could be much more so. Poor Cooper. Poor YOU.

/hugs.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on September 27, 2011, 06:47:10 PM
1. Does she look pregnant to you?
Going by that first picture and coupled with the fact that she is frantically nesting, I have to agree that yes, she does look pregnant.

2. Given that Cooper is about 18 months old (possibly younger, though), currently in stable health but recently in very poor health, in your opinion, would an e-spay or labor be more dangerous for her?  I've really fallen hard for this scraggly little thing and I want to do what is best for her (I'll also ask my vet about it, but it's a tough decision, so the more opinions/considerations the better).
If what you're seeing actually is a baby bump, she is far enough along that an e-spay is probably going to be a rather risky procedure.  While 18 months is rather old to be having a litter, Rubie is about the same age, and did fine with her litter of 13.  Rubie was rescued just a week before having the Gemstones, also scrawny and rather neglected.  You may have to help her out a bit more than if she was younger, but I think your best bet would be to let her have them (if there is a them).

3. What does a pregnant rat's belly feel like? Should I feel lumps? What if I don't feel lumps?
If you poke around, you may be able to feel lumps, but not always.  It should feel pretty firm.

4. If she's pregnant, about how far along does she look in the pictures?
Rats generally don't show until their last week of pregnancy.  The rescue didn't notice Rubie's pudge until 2 days before she gave birth.

5. If this isn't a pregnancy, what else could it be?
If she isn't pregnant, like apple said, it could just be the change to a healthy diet.  She also could have something wrong internally, like an abdominal tumor, etc.

Here are some pictures of Rubie right after I got home with her, only about 12 hours before she gave birth.
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/308767_10150288034658756_502753755_7582762_5783012_n.jpg)

(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/316144_10150288035363756_502753755_7582774_3631072_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: strangeduck on September 27, 2011, 07:05:45 PM
In my opinion (limited as it is, since I've only ever dealt with a handful of pregnant rats in my long love affair with rats) she definitely looks pregnant, and likely much too far along for an e-spay, though that would likely be the safest option for her...if she is pregnant, and is as far along as she looks to me, you'll have babies in the next few days.  I would definitely get the vet's opinion, though, because if you can get her an e-spay, that would be so much better for her.  After all she's been through, having to raise a litter would be rough on her....poor girl...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Stacy M on September 27, 2011, 07:14:10 PM
I think she is pregnant.  I would concede to your vet's comfort level with the emergency spay.  I know Lilspaz has had e-spays on very obviously pregnant rats, as she has a very experienced vet.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: GhostMouse on September 27, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
I've never dealt with pregnant rats, but I did take in a pregnant cat once. I found her exactly one week before she gave birth, and she was frighteningly thin. She looked like a football on twigs, I can't emphasize enough how scrawny she was. The only weight to her body was the five kittens inside. Still, somehow, after only a week of feeding her, she delivered five perfectly healthy kittens with no complications. She's been totally fine since then, and that was over two years ago now.

I know this doesn't directly relate to your situation, but I wanted to reassure you that poor health doesn't always mean that a mother and her litter will be unhealthy. Good luck, I can't believe you're having to deal with this on top of everything else you just went through with these poor girls.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 27, 2011, 09:23:43 PM
My vet never called me back.  I'm hoping he'll at least call early tomorrow. But if Cooper is as far along as you guys are saying, she's going to pop before I even have a chance to discuss an e-spay :(  (He is the ONLY vet I would even slightly trust to perform a spay on one of my rats, let alone a high-risk e-spay). 

Anyway, I know for sure that the woman I adopted them from has rats of her own and a few of them are males. I texted her today to ask if there was ANY possibility at all that Cooper could have come into contact with her males or any other males (even though I already asked her that before I even adopted them and she assured me that no such thing had happened), and this is what she texted back:

"Certainly hasn't come in contact with a male. My roommate has been the one taking care of the rats for the last few months, but he luckily knows the difference between the three dwarf males and the other cages." 

So.... that makes it even more confusing.  First of all, this is the first time I've ever heard of this alleged roommate of hers who was supposedly taking care of the rats the whole time. I received numerous texts, emails and phone calls from this woman where it was made abundantly clear that SHE was the one taking care of the rats (example: "I'm feeding the girls their dinner now:)")  So I really don't know what to make of this at all. Could she really be that blatant of a liar? The pieces of her story aren't matching up at all :(

For the time being, I'm going to assume Cooper is pregnant and do the best I can. A couple more questions:

Should I stay up with her tonight in case she goes into labor and needs help? 

I don't really have an appropriate maternity cage, but should I at least move her into the lower level of their DCN by herself or set up our travel cage for her? (it's an SP XL rabbit cage - has a deep pan but 1" bar spacing)

Since coming to live with us, she's been on baytril and clavamox and has been receiving weekly injections of ivermectin. If she is pregnant, would those medications harm the babies? I know that baytril is controversial for treating pregnant animals, and I think ivermectin is too, but how bad is the damage? How horrifying is this going to be?

Thanks for all the information, guys.  And eyohkay, thanks for reminding me about Rubie.  Her story is at least a little bit reassuring.  My vet said Cooper is between 1 year and 18 months (Alicia said she was only a year, but who know whether I can believe that), so it's good to know that she at least has a chance of making it.  When you say I may need to help her a little more, what do you mean?  Like, will I have to help her pull them out?  I want to be prepared in case I have to do that. 


Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Stacy M on September 27, 2011, 09:30:13 PM
Never try to pull the babies out.  If any get stuck in the birth canal she will need a vet.

When the vets don't call back, I keep calling.  They do get very busy.

The line about the roommate sounds to me like a setup to absolve responsibility.  After all the other lies you really can't be that surprised  :-\
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 27, 2011, 09:39:18 PM
Never try to pull the babies out.  If any get stuck in the birth canal she will need a vet.

When the vets don't call back, I keep calling.  They do get very busy.

The line about the roommate sounds to me like a setup to absolve responsibility.  After all the other lies you really can't be that surprised  :-\

Would an e-vet who knows nothing about rats be able to help if one gets stuck? Our e-vet is really kind and willing to work with us on things she doesn't know a lot about, but she admitted that she hasn't really worked with rats much before. 

I called my vet a couple times to check back today, but I'll call even more tomorrow if he still hasn't gotten back to me. He's usually really good about calling back  :-\

And yeah, that's what I thought about the roommate story too.  I guess I'll know soon enough, though. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: strangeduck on September 27, 2011, 10:13:29 PM
While it's certainly not a good situation for the poor girl, most rat births, even in older rats, or rats without optimal care end up going surprisingly well.  I suspect that even if we tell you not to stay up and hover over the mama waiting for babies, you'll do it anyway. 

Make sure she has plenty of nesting material...plain white paper towels if possible.  Babies can get lost in the folds of the fleece, so I'd stay away from that.  Just keep treating her like you have been...maybe throwing in some extra protein (I've yet to meet a rat that didn't go crazy for eggs).

I would definitely move her to the lower half of the CN by herself.  That way, her cagemates are close enough for her to smell and hear them, but you don't have to worry about a non-lactating rat stealing babies. 

Keep us updated!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 27, 2011, 10:36:55 PM
While it's certainly not a good situation for the poor girl, most rat births, even in older rats, or rats without optimal care end up going surprisingly well.  I suspect that even if we tell you not to stay up and hover over the mama waiting for babies, you'll do it anyway. 

Make sure she has plenty of nesting material...plain white paper towels if possible.  Babies can get lost in the folds of the fleece, so I'd stay away from that.  Just keep treating her like you have been...maybe throwing in some extra protein (I've yet to meet a rat that didn't go crazy for eggs).

I would definitely move her to the lower half of the CN by herself.  That way, her cagemates are close enough for her to smell and hear them, but you don't have to worry about a non-lactating rat stealing babies. 

Keep us updated!

Thank you! I'll almost definitely be a wreck no matter what, but it's good to know that she's likely to manage okay. 

Would it be okay to leave her with her cagemates while I'm home to supervise them, but move her away at night?  She's extremely bonded to her sister and doesn't seem like the type of rat who would handle solitude well :(  (she already has some neurotic behaviors like barbering herself half bald, and I want to minimize stress for her as much as possible). And I just realized that I should probably take out the lower shelf so she doesn't have anywhere to drop the babies from. 

I'm making her some hard boiled eggs right now and I'll give her some paper stuffs as soon as I put her back in her cage (I'm halfway tempted to just put a whole roll of paper towels in there to giver her something fun to do!). 

Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: strangeduck on September 27, 2011, 10:55:31 PM
Maybe put her sister with her and just move the sister when/if she has the bubs?  That would probably be less stressful for her.

And, yeah, I'd definitely take the shelf and any hammocks out.  And if you put a whole roll of paper towels in there for her fun, I want to see pictures!!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: smilez_n_hugs on September 27, 2011, 11:09:57 PM
Just be careful with the paper towel, it can get stuck to the bubs and dry their skin out. I have always used cut up fleece strips for preggo moms.

As for complications the only experience I have is when one girl's contractions stopped mid-labour so we rushed her to the vet who gave her a shot of oxytocin. Luckily the mom was okay but she lost a baby in the process :(
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 27, 2011, 11:20:25 PM
Okay, I gave her some paper towels while she was hanging out on the couch with me (I couldn't resist - rats carrying paper is pretty much the funniest thing ever) and she started eating them. Like, actually ingesting them.

Can she choke on the paper towels or harm herself if she eats them?

EDIT: I gave her an egg. I have never seen an animal eat that frantically.

How much egg can I allow her to have?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on September 27, 2011, 11:25:49 PM
Oh poor girl.  She's either preggers, or there's something else going on.  I also think it's too late for an e-spay once they start to show like that; the Rescue I work with no longer spays late term after we lost some during late term e-spays.  I know some people recommend it on here, but I don't know if they've actually had experience with it, and if they're quite aware how much riskier it can be due to the increased blood flow and stress that's already on the rat's body. 

If this person you adopted from actually is telling the truth about her having no contact with males and she isn't pregnant, another possibility could be a pyometra.  A few years ago a friend and member here took in a pregnant girl, however she showed no signs of giving birth.  Eventually it was decided the best course of action was to operate and it turns out she had a pyometra.  Her uterus was filled with pus and it was the size of a softball.  Given the fact this person has lied or omitted other things regarding these rats, odds are you can't reply on her not having contact with males so pregnancy is likely, but it's still a good idea to keep in mind there could be other causes for this weight gain.

If you haven't already, I recommend you read the Ratguide section on breeding (http://ratguide.com/breeding/).  It's an invaluable resource and also covers what to do in the case of labour emergencies. 

Regarding the drugs she's on, the makers of Baytril have  studies that show no evidence of carcinogenic or teratogenic effects in rats at higher doses of up to 50mg/kg, so provided those studies can be trusted, they shouldn't impact on the babies' development.  With Ivermectin, the risks could be cleft palates, but that refers to rats that were given Ivermectin daily throughout the whole pregnancy, so hopefully it won't affect these babies.

Re the paper towels, it's ok if they ingest a little bit.  Odds are she's just testing it out and will stop soon.   I have a rat that treats any paper products like chocolate.  I can't read anything with her about, although I must admit having a couple of pages nibbled on my Rats of NIMH book was kinda cute. :)

Good luck with her.  Hopefully things will be as trouble free as possible.









Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 27, 2011, 11:36:05 PM
Oh poor girl.  She's either preggers, or there's something else going on.  I also think it's too late for an e-spay once they start to show like that; the Rescue I work with no longer spays late term after we lost some during late term e-spays.  I know some people recommend it on here, but I don't know if they've actually had experience with it, and if they're quite aware how much riskier it can be due to the increased blood flow and stress that's already on the rat's body. 

If this person you adopted from actually is telling the truth about her having no contact with males and she isn't pregnant, another possibility could be a pyometra.  A few years ago a friend and member here took in a pregnant girl, however she showed no signs of giving birth.  Eventually it was decided the best course of action was to operate and it turns out she had a pyometra.  Her uterus was filled with pus and it was the size of a softball.  Given the fact this person has lied or omitted other things regarding these rats, odds are you can't reply on her not having contact with males so pregnancy is likely, but it's still a good idea to keep in mind there could be other causes for this weight gain.

If you haven't already, I recommend you read the Ratguide section on breeding (http://ratguide.com/breeding/).  It's an invaluable resource and also covers what to do in the case of labour emergencies. 

Regarding the drugs she's on, the makers of Baytril have  studies that show no evidence of carcinogenic or teratogenic effects in rats at higher doses of up to 50mg/kg, so provided those studies can be trusted, they shouldn't impact on the babies' development.  With Ivermectin, the risks could be cleft palates, but that refers to rats that were given Ivermectin daily throughout the whole pregnancy, so hopefully it won't affect these babies.

Re the paper towels, it's ok if they ingest a little bit.  Odds are she's just testing it out and will stop soon.   I have a rat that treats any paper products like chocolate.  I can't read anything with her about, although I must admit having a couple of pages nibbled on my Rats of NIMH book was kinda cute. :)

Good luck with her.  Hopefully things will be as trouble free as possible.

That's fantastic information, Siana. Thank you!  And the more I think about it, the more I think an e-spay just sounds too risky at this point (from what people on here have said and from what I've been able to find elsewhere on the internet). 

I had also considered pyometra as a possible cause of her symptoms (I think that's the scenario I'm most scared of).  But she's been on clavamox and baytril for the last ten days for a URI - should that have helped, or could a pyometra just not respond at all to antibiotic treatment?  Would an ultrasound or x-ray help to diagnose a pyometra?  (And if so, which would you recommend?)

Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Stacy M on September 27, 2011, 11:53:33 PM
Oh poor girl.  She's either preggers, or there's something else going on.  I also think it's too late for an e-spay once they start to show like that; the Rescue I work with no longer spays late term after we lost some during late term e-spays.  I know some people recommend it on here, but I don't know if they've actually had experience with it, and if they're quite aware how much riskier it can be due to the increased blood flow and stress that's already on the rat's body. 

You know, it is fine to disagree with people about it not being a good idea, but was the passive-aggressiveness really necessary?  So are you suggesting that Lilspaz, HVRR, and various other rat experienced and rat educated people who have done late e-spays just weren't as intelligent as you were to realize that there is a greater risk of blood loss?  I also wonder if people who are against e-spays because of their negative experiences ever considered that maybe some vets are more skilled with such surgeries...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on September 28, 2011, 12:43:03 AM
Oh poor girl.  She's either preggers, or there's something else going on.  I also think it's too late for an e-spay once they start to show like that; the Rescue I work with no longer spays late term after we lost some during late term e-spays.  I know some people recommend it on here, but I don't know if they've actually had experience with it, and if they're quite aware how much riskier it can be due to the increased blood flow and stress that's already on the rat's body. 

You know, it is fine to disagree with people about it not being a good idea, but was the passive-aggressiveness really necessary?  So are you suggesting that Lilspaz, HVRR, and various other rat experienced and rat educated people who have done late e-spays just weren't as intelligent as you were to realize that there is a greater risk of blood loss?  I also wonder if people who are against e-spays because of their negative experiences ever considered that maybe some vets are more skilled with such surgeries...

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound that way.  I just often see it being recommended by people that haven't dealt with that kind of thing before - if Shelagh or a rescue had recommended it, then I would have told her my experiences with late term spays.   Apologies if I came across as passive aggressive, it certainly wasn't my intent.  I've actually also never seen anyone on here actually do late term e-spays, so if they have and it's been successful, that's great. 

I'm extremely pro e-spay.  We spay most females that come into the rescue, especially the ones suspected of being pregnant, and do end up having been pregnant in the early stages.  We just are very hesitant to do it with rats that are obviously pregnant.  Most vets are too. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on September 28, 2011, 02:52:21 AM

I had also considered pyometra as a possible cause of her symptoms (I think that's the scenario I'm most scared of).  But she's been on clavamox and baytril for the last ten days for a URI - should that have helped, or could a pyometra just not respond at all to antibiotic treatment?  Would an ultrasound or x-ray help to diagnose a pyometra?  (And if so, which would you recommend?)

An x-ray would show a pyometra - not so sure about an ultrasound.  It's one of those things were you don't want to disturb her if she is pregnant and take her in to the vet, but at the same time, if it is a pyo, do you wait?  It's a judgment call, and I don't think there's a clear cut right thing to do.  But usually when they get to the nesting stage, they're close to giving birth, so since she's nesting,  I'd personally probably leave it a little while to see if she does give birth.  Odds are she probably is pregnant. 

Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on September 28, 2011, 07:36:45 AM
I haven't actually done a late-term spay, only recently discovered that my vet will spay up to almost birth, so you will see more in the future I imagine.

Your girl looks classically pregnant to me, but I read carefully and saw that no one suggested weighing her daily to see how much weight gain is going on, and if its increasing steadily.  I find once they are gaining over 10 grams a day consistently, you are very close.   If your little momma is 18 months there's also a chance of reabsorption as well.  TBH I would take her to the vet to ask if they are comfortable with an e-spay this late in the game.  Figure out where she is in her pregnancy (by weight gain) and then make up your mind.  It's a very tough call, and I am glad I am not the one making it.

She looks soo much like my 3-legged Inca in that last pic  :heart:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Critter Crazy on September 28, 2011, 08:00:58 AM
Just keep her on a top-notch diet & build her up. Due to her poor health & the pregnancy, I'd be inclined not to have an e-spay done, but rather let her have the litter, & remove the bubs to a foster mother if available. If not, well, just let her raise the litter. I've had a few rescues do extremely well with litters after a good diet & lots of TLC. In saying that though, I have a lot of room & time on my hands.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on September 28, 2011, 09:58:46 AM
Thanks for all the information, guys.  And eyohkay, thanks for reminding me about Rubie.  Her story is at least a little bit reassuring.  My vet said Cooper is between 1 year and 18 months (Alicia said she was only a year, but who know whether I can believe that), so it's good to know that she at least has a chance of making it.  When you say I may need to help her a little more, what do you mean?  Like, will I have to help her pull them out?  I want to be prepared in case I have to do that.

No problem!  There's no telling how old Rubie actually is, but we were told 18 months, so that's what I'm going with.  As far as helping with the bubs, I just meant supplementing their diet.  I didn't have much luck getting any of mine to take formula, but I gave it to Rubie often, and when they started trying out solid foods, I started making them a "mash" of KMR powder, HT crumbs, water, and various flavors of baby food.  They went nutso over it and it gave Rubie at least a little bit of a break from feeding.  I actually still catch her nursing occasionally, and Monday was 5 weeks.  ::)  Despite her health, the whole crew has done wonderful (minus the 3 we lost, which was obviously no fault of Rubie's).
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Blackthorn on September 28, 2011, 01:29:53 PM
I also thought possibly pyometra.  If it's a pyo, antibiotics don't really help (they might provide a stall, but not a cure).  Only cure for pyo is a spay.  She is definitely either pregnant or having a major medical issue.  Based on her health history and the lies of her prior owner, honestly I think either could be possible.  :-\  Considering the furious nesting and her previous owner's evasiveness, though, I think pregnancy is more likely.  However, I'd try to rule out pyo ASAP if she doesn't give birth very soon.  I'd also be watching those other girls like a hawk and considering spays for them...

I've done late term e-spays.  I don't *like* doing it, and it's not something to undertake lightly, as it IS riskier, but sometimes it is necessary/the best decision.  I think once they are far along it is very much a situational dependent choice best made taking all factors into consideration with your vet.  I don't like how a lot of people automatically label them as "too risky" because sometimes they ARE the better/less risky action, all factors considered, but it should definitely be an educated choice and it is never an easy one.

On a side note, her skin/fur looks worrisome to me.  I've had rats come in looking just like that, and they turned out to have a nasty case of ringworm.  You might want to do a fungal culture at the vet especially if you are there already.  It couldn't hurt, and if it were me I'd rather know sooner rather than later if it was ringworm.  I could just be gunshy, though, after my experience. :P
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 28, 2011, 01:55:46 PM
I'm sorry to hijack your thread, Bananana, but we seem to be going through the same thing at the same time!
http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?topic=4090976.0

I did follow the link that Siana gave above for the Ratguide, and it says that you can feel fetuses in the 2nd-3rd weeks, but don't press on the abdomen because you can damage the babies! EEP! That's the first time I've seen that warning; of course, according to other sites that mention that you can feel the babies in a late-pregnancy doe, I have been feeling my girl's tummy to try to verify if she's pregnant. Is it a big problem, damaging the bubs in utero by pressing the tummy? And of course, I've watched her squeeze herself into some pretty tight spots (like between the food dish and the cage bars)... will that damage the bubs, too?

EDIT: Oh, and your girl looks preggers to me, too, if the pictures all over the web are any indication. I also read on the Ratguide site that a doe's coat will stretch out and look thin if she's carrying a large litter. Could that be what you're seeing, Blackthorn, and not ringworm?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 28, 2011, 03:22:12 PM
Whelp, now my vet can't get me in until Friday (the day I already had an appointment anyway), so it looks like it's time to find an alternate vet for emergencies (I absolutely ADORE my vet, but everyone else here adores him too, so he's a busy, busy man). 

I've been calling around all morning trying to find another vet that knows a bit about rats. The only other vet in town who is specifically listed as an exotics vet is a horrible, horrible woman who inexplicably knows next to nothing about rats but somehow still manages to be perfectly confident in herself to the point of being bulldozer-like (example: at first, she refused to refill my prednisone prescription because "rats don't get pituitary tumors so that's not what it is" and she flat-out WOULD NOT give me doxy and baytril and I don't even know why).  A couple of the other places sound like they'll see rats, but they don't necessarily have much experience with them. 

But Cooper needs to see somebody TODAY, so I'll be taking her in somewhere.  I'll discuss the option of an e-spay with whomever I take her to, but I have to admit that I would have a really hard time trusting a new vet who doesn't have a ton of rat experience to perform surgery on my rats.  I mean, if I go with an e-spay, I have to do it ASAP and I don't feel like I'd have enough time to feel out whether I can trust a new vet to do it. But I realize that it's possible that labor could be even more dangerous, so I won't rule out the idea of an e-spay until I discuss it with a vet. 

Quote
On a side note, her skin/fur looks worrisome to me.  I've had rats come in looking just like that, and they turned out to have a nasty case of ringworm.  You might want to do a fungal culture at the vet especially if you are there already.  It couldn't hurt, and if it were me I'd rather know sooner rather than later if it was ringworm.  I could just be gunshy, though, after my experience.

My vet looked at that when we first brought her in, but he said it was most likely just barbering (it's hard to see in the picture, but the hair on her back has a "chewed-off" look to it and she barbers her arms and legs really bad to the point where they're almost bald).  I'll ask about a fungal culture, though. I'm usually of the mindset  that it's better to be safe than sorry.

Quote
I'd also be watching those other girls like a hawk and considering spays for them...

As soon as I realized Cooper might be pregnant, I immediately became horribly afraid that the others might be too.  They all have sticky-outy nipples (which could just be the way they are, or could be from litters they may have had in the past), but Cooper is the only one whose nipples have hair missing around them. And none of the other girls' bellies look round at all (they all still look kind of skinny and a little "sunken" when they stretch out). But how worried should I be?

About nesting behavior - is it normal for a rat to nest frantically one day and then just nest casually after that?  Cooper went through one night of extreme, crazy nest-building, but for the past few days, she's more just been rearranging things nonchalantly.  We'll see what she does after I clean their cage today, though.   

Oh, and Sailorgrrl, I saw that too! I was also like "wait, that seems really important and like it should be plastered all over any site that gives information on rat pregnancy..."  I've been really gentle with her belly, but I still worry.


Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on September 28, 2011, 03:46:43 PM
As soon as I realized Cooper might be pregnant, I immediately became horribly afraid that the others might be too.  They all have sticky-outy nipples (which could just be the way they are, or could be from litters they may have had in the past), but Cooper is the only one whose nipples have hair missing around them. And none of the other girls' bellies look round at all (they all still look kind of skinny and a little "sunken" when they stretch out). But how worried should I be?

Don't worry at all, cause it won't help anything anyways.   :P

I damn near had a heart attack shortly after putting my neutered male in with his already neutered brother, my 5 girls, and 2 of my friends girls that I was sitting while she was on vacation.  I went to my parents for the weekend, came home, and all the girls seemed HUGE.  I lost it.  I was sitting on the floor, weighing all my girls in tears, and wondering how on Earth I was going to handle 5 litters at ONCE.

I had had a busy week at school the week before, and it turns out they had just chunked up from the lack of out time and fresh foods.  I let them out to get some exercise, gave them their veggies, and weighed them again the next night, and every single one had shed a couple grams.  ::)

Moral of the story- just take daily weights.  If you see big jumps (20-30 grams in 24 hours), then worry!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 28, 2011, 04:02:51 PM
I got an appointment at 2:00 with a different vet. She said she'll do x-rays to see if we're dealing with a pyometra.  Is there anything else I should ask her to do (aside from discussing an e-spay)? 

I'll also go buy a digital scale today. We have a kitchen scale for getting general weights, but I think it's time to spring for a digital one since it's way more accurate. 

Okay, I'll update when I get back from the vet! Wish us luck!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Blackthorn on September 28, 2011, 05:12:02 PM
Yep, I'd start weighing all the girls and look for big gains, and also note who goes into heat and who doesn't (start tickling those backs).  If they go into heat you can relax.

I hope everything goes well at the vet!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 28, 2011, 06:14:38 PM
Back from the vet, but I don't know how much closer I am to figuring out what's going on  :-\

The vet we were able to get an appointment with was really nice and helpful, but she didn't know very much about rats at all (she didn't know what porphyrin was and she didn't know the general lifespan of a rat). She wasn't able to diagnose anything, but we got an x-ray and an accurate weight, so maybe you guys can help me interpret all the information (the vet just said "well, she looks pregnant...").

Okay, so Cooper has gained 50 grams in the past 6 days (the last time we had her weighed on a vet's scale, she was 340 grams, today she was right around 390).  So there's that. 

The x-ray didn't show any fetuses, though.  Should rat fetuses show up on an x-ray or are their skeletons not yet calcified enough? 

The vet said she didn't see an obviously enlarged uterus or anything, but she sounded kind of unsure.

Anyway, here's the x-ray:

(http://i.imgur.com/erO2Wl.jpg)

Can any of you tell if there's something going on?  Should you be able to see babies?

Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on September 28, 2011, 06:27:40 PM
I think only a trained vet could let you know what they see on that x-ray. Even when my vet points things out to me on an x-ray I think to myself jeeze how do they see that?!

Can you fax this to your normal vet to get an opinion? I hope its good news that there's no baby looking things in there.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 28, 2011, 06:32:57 PM
I think only a trained vet could let you know what they see on that x-ray. Even when my vet points things out to me on an x-ray I think to myself jeeze how do they see that?!

Can you fax this to your normal vet to get an opinion? I hope its good news that there's no baby looking things in there.

They sent it to our regular vet before we left, so he'll definitely get to look at it, I'm just not sure if it'll be before Friday :(
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on September 28, 2011, 07:05:34 PM
Aww :( I hope he gets back to you before then, especially if there is something serious there. I'm so sorry you have to wait, I know how hard that can be  :heart:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: strangeduck on September 28, 2011, 07:52:59 PM
Okay....supposedly fetal cat skeletal structure can be seen at 43 days...and since rats never get to be that pregnant, I don't know what that would translate to in rats.  My guess is that you wouldn't see anything.  Rat pinkies are very undeveloped at birth.  Even with my mad Google skillz I couldn't find a single rat x ray showing fetuses.  Jack rabbits, Marmosets and a host of other small animals, but no rats.  And since rats are used so widely in lab studies, I'd think they'd be somewhere on the web.

That being said, it's still not conclusive.  I think at this point, if you don't see babies in a week, you're going to have to assume some kind of pyometra or uterine mass.  :BlueDumboBigEyes:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 28, 2011, 07:59:13 PM
Okay....supposedly fetal cat skeletal structure can be seen at 43 days...and since rats never get to be that pregnant, I don't know what that would translate to in rats.  My guess is that you wouldn't see anything.  Rat pinkies are very undeveloped at birth.  Even with my mad Google skillz I couldn't find a single rat x ray showing fetuses.  Jack rabbits, Marmosets and a host of other small animals, but no rats.  And since rats are used so widely in lab studies, I'd think they'd be somewhere on the web.

That being said, it's still not conclusive.  I think at this point, if you don't see babies in a week, you're going to have to assume some kind of pyometra or uterine mass.  :BlueDumboBigEyes:

I've been googling like crazy too, but having similar luck.  And I'm really starting to hate rat terriers.  They crowd out all the relevant search results for rat medical stuff because Google is like "LOL, did you say 'rat?' Like a terrier? Okay, here's some information on rat terrier pregnancies!" 

It seems like there should be TONS of information about rat fetal development since they are used so often as laboratory animals, but there inexplicably isn't. 

Perhaps we can approach this from a different angle, though:

Does anyone know how clearly a pyometra would show up on an x-ray? Is it like "Whoa, okay, that's a huge, obviously pus-filled uterus" or more subtle and sneaky? 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Critter Crazy on September 28, 2011, 09:04:28 PM
When I had a girl x-rayed for a pregnancy, she was x-rayed the day before she gave birth to 13 pinkies. Not a single thing showed up on the x-ray, other that a huge white mass inside her abdomen with a darker spot here or there. My vet is pretty savvy with rats, but she's never x-rayed a pregnant one so late & was quite surprised nothing showed up. I would think a pyometra would be similar, but possibly a different shape to the huge white out that was my girls tummy.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Stacy M on September 28, 2011, 09:08:03 PM
When searching and not wanting a term, type a - before it, for example: rat -terrier  It makes googling rat stuff much easier!

The only x-ray I've seen of closed pyo, the uterus was pretty white from the pus I guess.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 28, 2011, 09:09:45 PM
Oh, I am so disappointed that the x-ray wasn't more conclusive. I wish I had some info re: pyo in rats... my only experience is in dogs, where I do believe the swollen uterus is easily identified on an x-ray (in a recent x-ray of one of my dogs, you could easily tell that he needed to poop before getting the x-ray - LOL!). I haven't seen too many x-rays of rats, but this one doesn't have very good resolution (you can see enlarged hearts from rats suffering from CHF, for instance), because I would have expected to see an enlarged (or normal) uterus. I can't see anything in the pic, and I would have also expected to be able to pick out ritten-like blobs even if you couldn't see clear skeletons. There is some haziness there, as if it's a dense mass obscuring other rattie parts, which makes me wonder if it's not a mass of rittens. But perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part... can you feel lumps in her abdomen (pressing very gently, of course! LOL)?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 28, 2011, 09:17:50 PM
When I had a girl x-rayed for a pregnancy, she was x-rayed the day before she gave birth to 13 pinkies. Not a single thing showed up on the x-ray, other that a huge white mass inside her abdomen with a darker spot here or there. My vet is pretty savvy with rats, but she's never x-rayed a pregnant one so late & was quite surprised nothing showed up. I would think a pyometra would be similar, but possibly a different shape to the huge white out that was my girls tummy.

Thank you!! That's extremely helpful.  I can't make out much of any sort of white mass in Cooper's x-ray, but it's comforting to know that it could still be babies instead of a pyometra or other scary, bloat-y-making thing (or maybe it's nothing! That would be the best!)

 
When searching and not wanting a term, type a - before it, for example: rat -terrier  It makes googling rat stuff much easier!

Haha, I already tried the whole advanced search thing without "terrier" and without "dog." It helped a little, but people with rat terriers often just call them "rats."  (related side note: today at the vet, someone in the waiting room asked me what I had with me in the carrier, and I was like "a rat." And they were like "Awwww, is it a puppy?")
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 28, 2011, 09:24:17 PM
Oh, I am so disappointed that the x-ray wasn't more conclusive. I wish I had some info re: pyo in rats... my only experience is in dogs, where I do believe the swollen uterus is easily identified on an x-ray (in a recent x-ray of one of my dogs, you could easily tell that he needed to poop before getting the x-ray - LOL!). I haven't seen too many x-rays of rats, but this one doesn't have very good resolution (you can see enlarged hearts from rats suffering from CHF, for instance), because I would have expected to see an enlarged (or normal) uterus. I can't see anything in the pic, and I would have also expected to be able to pick out ritten-like blobs even if you couldn't see clear skeletons. There is some haziness there, as if it's a dense mass obscuring other rattie parts, which makes me wonder if it's not a mass of rittens. But perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part... can you feel lumps in her abdomen (pressing very gently, of course! LOL)?

I can't really feel distinct lumps, but I've been very, very gentle with the palpation, so I might not have been pressing hard enough to feel any even if they were there.

And yeah, the x-ray does seem a little hazy to me. I wish her leg wasn't in the way, too.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on September 28, 2011, 10:54:18 PM
The way she's positioned makes it difficult to tell, but I think I'm seeing something right beneath that big blob of leg and hip bones.  Does anyone else see the slightly lighter, ovalish thing there?  Since Critter's almost full-term rittens didn't show up on an x-ray, I'm still leaning toward her being preggers.

ETA:  I tried to circle it so you could see what I'm talking about.  The outline of it is just within the circle I drew, and it's more visible on the bottom and right sides.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/Br0knHrtdL0ser/erO2Wl.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Stacy M on September 28, 2011, 11:05:35 PM
When I had a girl x-rayed for a pregnancy, she was x-rayed the day before she gave birth to 13 pinkies. Not a single thing showed up on the x-ray, other that a huge white mass inside her abdomen with a darker spot here or there. My vet is pretty savvy with rats, but she's never x-rayed a pregnant one so late & was quite surprised nothing showed up. I would think a pyometra would be similar, but possibly a different shape to the huge white out that was my girls tummy.

Thank you!! That's extremely helpful.  I can't make out much of any sort of white mass in Cooper's x-ray, but it's comforting to know that it could still be babies instead of a pyometra or other scary, bloat-y-making thing (or maybe it's nothing! That would be the best!)

 
When searching and not wanting a term, type a - before it, for example: rat -terrier  It makes googling rat stuff much easier!

Haha, I already tried the whole advanced search thing without "terrier" and without "dog." It helped a little, but people with rat terriers often just call them "rats."  (related side note: today at the vet, someone in the waiting room asked me what I had with me in the carrier, and I was like "a rat." And they were like "Awwww, is it a puppy?")
Hm, well doing that I found some pictures of pregnant rats xrays on a snake forum, I just could only get the thumbnail not being a registered user, I registered though and once I'm approved I'll link back the pictures to here for you.

Eyohkay, to me, that looks like movement, which can mess up x-rays like that (and is probably also why this one isn't very clear, since she wasn't sedated).
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 28, 2011, 11:07:37 PM
Yes! I see what you mean! And there's actually two more oval-ish shapes above and slightly to the left, where you might not expect football shaped organs to be. I don't know how to do the circles on the pic and then upload it again.... Do you see them, eyohkay?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MaatAset on September 28, 2011, 11:18:16 PM
I see a bunny and something shaped a bit like Florida... oh that probably doesn't help..  :D

Seriously though, good luck and I hope it's not anything serious!  I only ever dealt with one pregnant rat, and I never once suspected she was pregnant until the day I came home and found 15 rat pups in the cage with her.  :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on September 28, 2011, 11:26:56 PM
I saw those, but assumed they were just other organs cause I'm pretty sure she would only have one uterus.  :yelcutelaugh:

I'm not really sure what movement would look like on an x-ray, Stacy, but I'm seeing a distinct oval.  The bottom part of what I'm seeing could possibly be from movement of her leg bone, but I'm not sure how her moving what explain the right edge of the oval.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on September 28, 2011, 11:56:25 PM
Hm.  Was the vet at least able to discount the possibility of a pyo by looking at the x-rays?  On Ratguide there's an x-ray with a rat with a pyo which apparently shows a uterus full of fluid.  I've always been told you can see late term babies on x-rays, but now I'm wondering how accurate it is.
(http://ratguide.com/health/figures/images/gu/pyoxray1.jpg)

Regarding weight gain, it can be so hard to tell when you get in rats that were previously underweight in their previous home.  One  boy that recently came to me gained around 10g a day for over 10 days before finally slowing down on the weight gain. 





Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on September 29, 2011, 12:06:30 AM
I saw those, but assumed they were just other organs cause I'm pretty sure she would only have one uterus.  :yelcutelaugh:


Actually rats have a Y-shaped uterus (http://ratguide.com/breeding/anatomy/female_reproductive_system.php) like a cat or dog, so the horns would extend to the sides.

I think what Sailorgrrl meant by the other two oval shapes were these, which I saw as well:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/ratdog423/Other/erO2Wl.jpg)

I'm don't know much about interpreting x-rays, but I can pick out some organs, and I'm not sure what those ovals would be. My dad said muscle, but that doesn't look right to me. :dontknow: I tried to look up x-rays of pregnant rats on Google to compare, but didn't get any that were big enough to be  useful.  :-\

ETA: I'm not sure how accurate this is... I was trying to find out on Google when a rat fetus's skeleton calcifies during gestation. I got mostly snippets of scientific journal papers, and from those, it seems the majority of calcification occurs in the last week... at least that's what I got from it. Like I said, I'm not sure it's accurate since I couldn't find a source that said definitively that calcification occurs at this time frame, but it may be why it's hard to see babies on x-ray.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on September 29, 2011, 12:18:01 AM
I saw those, but assumed they were just other organs cause I'm pretty sure she would only have one uterus.  :yelcutelaugh:


Actually rats have a Y-shaped uterus (http://ratguide.com/breeding/anatomy/female_reproductive_system.php) like a cat or dog, so the horns would extend to the sides.

I think what Sailorgrrl meant by the other two oval shapes were these, which I saw as well: *snip*

That's just... weird.  But yeah, I did see those, but was mainly just looking for obvious signs of babies/pyometra... which I assume wouldn't be up near her ribs?

The one on the right looks like an aliens face.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Critter Crazy on September 29, 2011, 12:24:34 AM
They look like storage deposits to me. I had a girl given to me (rescue) who was towards 3 year mark, but she'd been very well cared for by her old owner & she had some soft mounds on her rump & back. They turned out to be fattie tissue, storage for when times are tough ;)

However, for Cooper, could be fluid swelling or a bunching on the muscles as she's twisted. In saying that though, I swear I can see a creepy looking skull. It's upside down, but it's stright up from the top left of the 'R', under a vertebrae in front of the pelvis. I could be imagining it, I've been staring at it for like an hour lol
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on September 29, 2011, 12:35:48 AM

However, for Cooper, could be fluid swelling or a bunching on the muscles as she's twisted. In saying that though, I swear I can see a creepy looking skull. It's upside down, but it's stright up from the top left of the 'R', under a vertebrae in front of the pelvis. I could be imagining it, I've been staring at it for like an hour lol

I was thinking the same thing about the skull, but like you said - stare at it enough, and you start to see things that may not actually be there. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Chaosbadgerling on September 29, 2011, 12:36:49 AM
Oh gods I'm not the only one seeing it.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on September 29, 2011, 12:41:14 AM
I saw those, but assumed they were just other organs cause I'm pretty sure she would only have one uterus.  :yelcutelaugh:


Actually rats have a Y-shaped uterus (http://ratguide.com/breeding/anatomy/female_reproductive_system.php) like a cat or dog, so the horns would extend to the sides.

I think what Sailorgrrl meant by the other two oval shapes were these, which I saw as well: *snip*

That's just... weird.  But yeah, I did see those, but was mainly just looking for obvious signs of babies/pyometra... which I assume wouldn't be up near her ribs?

The one on the right looks like an aliens face.  Just sayin'.

It's so they can have multiple births in one litter. From what I've seen the horns can extend quite a bit when full. The weird ovals could just be fat pads though. Like I said, I don't really know much about x-rays. I think it's also kind of hard to tell with the position she's in. :)

Critter Crazy... I see the skull too, but it's not upside down for me. Could just be we're staring at it too much...

Sorry for any typos or not making much sense. I'm tired and about to go to bed...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on September 29, 2011, 12:44:42 AM
Does no one see the alien?!  The right arrow is pointing at one of it's big creepy eyeballs and it's looking up.  Two little dots for nostrils.  Line for a mouth.    :eek:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 29, 2011, 01:55:10 AM
Oh my god, you guys are too funny.  I've gotten a few much-needed laughs reading through these replies!

I saw the ovals too. The one near her side could just be the boundary of her peritoneal cavity and the one on top of her hip could be a muscle, but then again, maybe not.  It's so hard to tell! I don't know what to think about the one under her leg (I asked the vet about it while we were looking at it and she didn't seem to know what it was either).  Cooper doesn't have any obvious storage deposits on her, but I suppose they could just be internal. 

HOWEVER, I think I may have felt something while I was playing with her on the couch.  She crawled through my hands and I could feel a.. thing... right underneath her last rib on the left. It was kind of poking out past the rib, so it didn't necessarily feel like an organ.  But, could be a spleen, could be a poop, could be a baby. Who knows.  Something's in there, though. 

Whatever's in there, I for sure see the creepy skull. 

Guys, I think my rat is pregnant with Cthulu.

EDIT: I totally see the alien. Things just got weird.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 29, 2011, 02:05:44 AM
Hm.  Was the vet at least able to discount the possibility of a pyo by looking at the x-rays?  On Ratguide there's an x-ray with a rat with a pyo which apparently shows a uterus full of fluid.  I've always been told you can see late term babies on x-rays, but now I'm wondering how accurate it is.
(http://ratguide.com/health/figures/images/gu/pyoxray1.jpg)

Regarding weight gain, it can be so hard to tell when you get in rats that were previously underweight in their previous home.  One  boy that recently came to me gained around 10g a day for over 10 days before finally slowing down on the weight gain.

She wasn't able to completely rule out pyo, especially since Cooper's leg got in the way right where we'd need to be looking.  However, if she's got a pyo, it's still relatively small. Nothing like the pictures I was able to find online (they all seemed like really extreme examples of it).

Trying to interpret weight gain is definitely difficult in this case! But if it helps, she gained about 10 grams in the first week (though that could be confounded by how much backed up poop she still had in her at her first weighing - she could have gained more body mass than 10 grams, but then lost poop weight) and 50 grams last week.   
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MaatAset on September 29, 2011, 03:05:27 AM
I should totally post some of my MRIs on here to see what the experts here have to say about what I have in my wrist, leg, and lower back...  I really think you guys will be more informative than my docs.  I'm not really sure any of them REALLY know how to read radiology prints.

Also, I see a big giant letter "R".  Did she by chance have some Alpha-bits or those letter shaped spaghetti-os recently?  Cuz I think I'm onto a breakthrough now.

I totally see the skull now and cannot unsee it  :BlueDumboBigEyes:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: bleedingheart on September 29, 2011, 04:04:58 AM
I'm not quite sure if I'm entertained or terrified by her random abdominal skull... Also, I can see the alien too.  :thumbsup2:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: mariskamoon on September 29, 2011, 07:59:17 AM
I have had to have 3 girls spayed due to pyro and they all had some sort of vaginal discharge, either blood or a "slime" (sorry for the graphic language) so I would imagine if it was pyro you would, by now, see something else. Also I have had to have 2 girls x-rayed late in pregnancy due to 1 being past due and 1 gaining lots of weight, and then not going in to labor. Both had reabsorbed and nothing showed up on the x-ray. From what I understand the fetal bones do not calcify enough to show up on an x-ray. Good luck with your girl.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 29, 2011, 08:03:38 AM
Does no one see the alien?!  The right arrow is pointing at one of it's big creepy eyeballs and it's looking up.  Two little dots for nostrils.  Line for a mouth.    :eek:

I see it! I see it! The end is near!

And if you think that babies can't be up near the rib cage, you've obviously never been pregnant!  LOL  My son spent the last month in utero with his right foot jammed up against my rib cage.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: ceopet on September 29, 2011, 10:16:27 AM
I also see the creepy skull  :eek:

I hope this all turns out very well whatever is going on with her. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you guys  :heart:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Favorite Kitty on September 29, 2011, 11:11:53 AM
Ohhh, Sailorgrrl, you said what I was exactly thinking when I was reading that they probably shouldnt be near her ribs. My ribcage even twanged a little when I read that! Ha!

Since everyone else is giving their opinion, I will add mine :) I have only dealt with cats, and lots of 'em, being pregnant or having pyometra. Most of the girls that had pyometra didnt want to eat, were lethargic (granted, different levels of being lethargic.), and just basically looking like yuck. How is her mood? Your girl really looks pregnant to me. Not just overweight, but pregnant. I also see aliens, ovals (CAN they be babies?), but no skulls.

;)
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Favorite Kitty on September 29, 2011, 11:12:39 AM
Ohhh, Sailorgrrl, you said what I was exactly thinking when I was reading that they probably shouldnt be near her ribs. My ribcage even twanged a little when I read that! Ha!

Since everyone else is giving their opinion, I will add mine :) I have only dealt with cats, and lots of 'em, being pregnant or having pyometra. Most of the girls that had pyometra didnt want to eat, were lethargic (granted, different levels of being lethargic.), and just basically looking like yuck. How is her mood? Your girl really looks pregnant to me. Not just overweight, but pregnant. I also see aliens, ovals (CAN they be babies?), but no skulls.

;)
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on September 29, 2011, 11:25:58 AM
Does no one see the alien?!  The right arrow is pointing at one of it's big creepy eyeballs and it's looking up.  Two little dots for nostrils.  Line for a mouth.    :eek:

I see it! I see it! The end is near!

And if you think that babies can't be up near the rib cage, you've obviously never been pregnant!  LOL  My son spent the last month in utero with his right foot jammed up against my rib cage.

Actually there's 2 types of pyometra...the open variety where you get the discharge draining, and the closed which is much more dangerous, as they just fill up with pus/bacteria.

I weigh my rats and figure out if they are pregnant by a steady weight gain...you expect a big jump when they come to you neglected and starved but it usually tapers off within a week, whereas most of the gain for a preggy mom is in the last 10-11 days.

A few days before they give birth you can sometimes feel them moving.  I use the flats of my fingers on the areas just behind the rib cage or on the belly itself.  The babies will push out and retreat. 

I had another old girl who had an enlarged spleen, it stuck out o her side but i was able to push it back in but it didn't move like a baby would.  She was pts curing her exploratory surgery.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Favorite Kitty on September 29, 2011, 11:42:46 AM
Are you sure its two different kinds, lilspaz? I thought there was one. If there was no discharge its because the infected uterus had not burst. If there were discharge it was because the puss filled uterus had burst from the infection already.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Kati33 on September 29, 2011, 11:59:12 AM
Lil spaz is right on the two kinds- the open has less of a chance of bursting as the fluid is able to leak out the cervix, where a closed one allows the fluid to build up and may cause the uterus to burst within the abdominal cavity as it stretches out the tissues.

I don't see much of anything definatively on that rad due to the horrible positioning of the leg. If it is digital I'd want to play with the contrast and if not use a bright light to try and see better- but really it is all about the positioning when looking in that region. Though reading all of your replies reminded me of the hours spent in radiology lab looking at films and trying to pick out random pathologies!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 29, 2011, 01:56:01 PM
I see what you mean about musculature, though. On the other hand, if it's a ritten tucked inside the hip bones, it might seem to bulge upward.

And usually, with a bad case of pyo, the animal feels sick and is lethargic/not eating. There's not usually weight gain and normal activity. I would expect a rat to be in the hunched posture and puffed up, especially with pain in the abdomen like she would have with pyo.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on September 29, 2011, 02:29:17 PM
Maybe I've just been staring at it too much between last night and this morning, but I totally see the alien now!

/not helpful 

Your vet appointment is tomorrow right? I hope your vet can figure out what's going on!  :heart:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 29, 2011, 02:34:39 PM
So no babies yet. She made another nest, though.  We cleaned the cage yesterday and messed up her former work of art, so she made another one. 

We put down paper towels like you guys said, but we still tried to use the fleece shelf liner so she would have something absorbent and soft underneath her.  Well, she pulled up the whole liner and balled it up in the corner, so it looks like that option is out (from what you guys have said, fleece is no good as a nesting material). Should I JUST put paper towels in there?  What if I make her a really low-hanging hammock (even one that touches the ground)? 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 29, 2011, 02:38:56 PM
Maybe I've just been staring at it too much between last night and this morning, but I totally see the alien now!

/not helpful 

Your vet appointment is tomorrow right? I hope your vet can figure out what's going on!  :heart:

Yeah, 5:00 PM tomorrow. And as far as I'm concerned, it can't get here soon enough. I'm hoping he'll be like "psh, she's just fat, you dummy. Try not to worry so much." I can hope, right?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: applecavy on September 29, 2011, 03:59:58 PM
Fleece isn't recommended because of the strangulation/suffocation possibilities.
I totally get where you are coming from with the low hanging hammock, but if Cooper is anything like Elizabeth was, she will take it down, and then apart to use as bedding.

Much safer to just got the paper towel route.
I also put a layer of Sunseed paper bedding in, because you can't clean the cage for the first several days, and it starts to stink pretty quickly.
The best you can do is change out soiled paper towel scraps for fresh ones.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 29, 2011, 04:45:23 PM
Much safer to just got the paper towel route.
I also put a layer of Sunseed paper bedding in, because you can't clean the cage for the first several days, and it starts to stink pretty quickly.
The best you can do is change out soiled paper towel scraps for fresh ones.

Would the Kaytee Soft Granule bedding work as well? I can get the Kaytee easily, but to get the Sun Seed I need to make a special trip to Petsmart. I have never used Sun Seed, so I don't know how it compares to the Soft Granule in texture, etc (I stopped using the granules because they just tossed it EVERYWHERE - worse than aspen!).
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: strangeduck on September 29, 2011, 05:33:59 PM
When I was pregnant with my daughter, she was looking straight out in the ultrasound picture, and looked like a demon...but she was born 12 years ago, and so far she hasn't possessed anyone's soul or sacrificed any animals or babies or anything.  I am only telling you this so you don't have be afraid of the demon your rat may or may not be gestating.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: blowingkisses on September 29, 2011, 06:51:24 PM
When I was pregnant with my daughter, she was looking straight out in the ultrasound picture, and looked like a demon...but she was born 12 years ago, and so far she hasn't possessed anyone's soul or sacrificed any animals or babies or anything.  I am only telling you this so you don't have be afraid of the demon your rat may or may not be gestating.

Love this.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: BostonRatLady on September 29, 2011, 06:57:24 PM
When I was pregnant with my daughter, she was looking straight out in the ultrasound picture, and looked like a demon...but she was born 12 years ago, and so far she hasn't possessed anyone's soul or sacrificed any animals or babies or anything.  I am only telling you this so you don't have be afraid of the demon your rat may or may not be gestating.

 :yelcutelaugh: :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: applecavy on September 29, 2011, 07:38:21 PM
Would the Kaytee Soft Granule bedding work as well? I can get the Kaytee easily, but to get the Sun Seed I need to make a special trip to Petsmart. I have never used Sun Seed, so I don't know how it compares to the Soft Granule in texture, etc (I stopped using the granules because they just tossed it EVERYWHERE - worse than aspen!).

Hmmm. It's very light weight, and isn't scented (I think?), so I imagine it would be okay.
This big thing you want to look out for is that is isn't dehydrating the babies skin. Apparently YN has a habit of doing that.

Sunseed is a heavier, pelleted bedding made out of recycled magazines.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 29, 2011, 08:17:06 PM
Would the Kaytee Soft Granule bedding work as well? I can get the Kaytee easily, but to get the Sun Seed I need to make a special trip to Petsmart. I have never used Sun Seed, so I don't know how it compares to the Soft Granule in texture, etc (I stopped using the granules because they just tossed it EVERYWHERE - worse than aspen!).

Hmmm. It's very light weight, and isn't scented (I think?), so I imagine it would be okay.
This big thing you want to look out for is that is isn't dehydrating the babies skin. Apparently YN has a habit of doing that.

Sunseed is a heavier, pelleted bedding made out of recycled magazines.

There are two kinds, scented and unscented, so I would get the unscented kind. Yes, it's very light - good to know about the dehydration factor. That would never have occurred to me! Thanks!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Critter Crazy on September 30, 2011, 09:29:59 AM
Well, my vet saw both alien & the creepy skull, but she doesn't think she's pregnant, or if she is, not very far along. We both came to the conclusion that if she has another x-ray that basically shows a great white mass in her abdomen, but still appears healthy, that would probably mean she's a couple days off birth. Mind you, this is going off my Shiraz's day-before-birth x-ray.

I swear that alien winked at me though >_O
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on September 30, 2011, 08:57:49 PM
Just got back from the vet with Cooper. She's gained 30 more grams in only two days (so in the last 7 days, she's gained 70 or 80 grams total, which is really a lot). 

My vet looked at the x-ray the other vet took and, after he increased the contrast a bit, he said he might be able to see fetuses in there, but it's so hard to tell with rats. I'll show you what he pointed out though.

Increased contrast of x-ray (taken on Wednesday):

(http://i.imgur.com/WxUFgl.jpg)

?? ??:

(http://i.imgur.com/we4WKl.jpg)

If those are little fetuses, she's less far along than I thought, but still pretty close (like maybe 3-5 days away from delivery). We discussed an e-spay, but my vet said he thinks an e-spay would be much more risky than letting her have them (if there is a "them" in there).

He also said it could be a false pregnancy (he's seen that a couple times before), but he didn't think it was a pyo, which is good since that was my worst fear with this.

I feel a little less panicked now that he's looked at her and we're pretty sure it isn't a pyo.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 30, 2011, 09:04:22 PM
Thank goodness it's not pyo! That's such bad stuff. Of course, now you may be dealing with an unexpected handful of furbabies, but at least she's not sick.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on September 30, 2011, 09:06:30 PM
I hope its a false pregnancy. If she is pregnant I hope everything goes well, if not you will be well planned for it. So sorry all of this has happened, the lady who owned these rats before was so stupid.

Good thoughts and wishes coming your way  :heart:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: BostonRatLady on September 30, 2011, 09:16:50 PM
Wishing you all the best. As you can see in my own post, my rescued Petco "back room special" was very special, indeed! And now I have 10 extra eepers to worry about!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on September 30, 2011, 10:51:03 PM
That's interesting. That was what I thought could be intestine. All of it together kinda looks like a fetus to me, but individually... ???  lol... I'm glad it's not a pyo! I hope everything goes well! I've been lurking your blog thread and Cooper seems like a sweet girl! :heart: I'm glad you found each other!  :BlueDumboSmile:

Again, this is one of my posts where I'm too tired and need to go to bed, so sorry for typos, etc...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on September 30, 2011, 10:58:53 PM
Out of curiosity, I googled images of pregnant ratties... Sadly there were lots of images of dissected pregnant ratties. But what I saw in those dissections and did not expect was how the rittens are lined up in the abdomen, like a fat large intestine, larger than would be seen in a rat. So I could buy it that those little lumps all in a row are babies!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MaatAset on October 01, 2011, 01:23:03 AM
Cooper is definitely carrying Cthulhu..  :shocked2:

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/MaatAset/WxUFgl.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on October 01, 2011, 03:05:03 AM
Congrats, it's a Cthulhu.  Lol.

30g in two days really is much more than normal weight gain from good food, so your vet is probably right that those are babies.   Although here's hoping for the chance of a false pregnancy.  One can hope!   
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 01, 2011, 08:02:21 AM
She is close it sounds like to me :)

I never understood the uterus of a rat until my vet took a pic of one after an e-spay.

DO NOT click on the link if you are squeamish or sensitive about e-spays

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/Spays%20and%20Neuters/uteruswipupsjun1710.jpg

Now I understand why bigger litters are smaller, and how the runts (on the ends most likely) come out looking a bit squished.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: RattusNorvegicus on October 01, 2011, 09:10:28 AM
You guys and your creativity. I would have never thought that looked like Cthulhu.   :laughing7:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on October 01, 2011, 09:32:05 AM
 :yelcutelaugh: :yelcutelaugh: :yelcutelaugh: :yelcutelaugh: :yelcutelaugh:

I had never heard of a Cthulhu before this thread! Bananana, what are you breeding over there?   :eek:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Favorite Kitty on October 01, 2011, 11:02:12 AM
Ha! Your little :| face next to babies?? made me smile! I wouldnt have guessed those little bubbles down the bottom would be babies either. What did he say those ovals were up at her back that everyone keeps thinking are babies? Did he say?

And hooray for no pyometra! (and I cant wait to see baby pictures!)
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: ceopet on October 01, 2011, 11:27:15 AM
Oh wow Lilspaz is that the actual size of the uterus? I'm baffled at how something so small can have something that big inside of them  :eek:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Stacy M on October 01, 2011, 11:46:39 AM
Ceopet, the uterus is normally very small (the horns are long, but small.)  They stretch with pregnancy, like with humans.  Non pregnant women have uteruses about 3x2 inches.  A women close to giving birth has a uterus with 1,000 times the volume of a non pregnant uterus.

I see the babies, and your vets analysis makes sense, but I'm crossing my fingers for a false labor.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: ceopet on October 01, 2011, 11:51:05 AM
Quote
Ceopet, the uterus is normally very small (the horns are long, but small.)  They stretch with pregnancy, like with humans.  Non pregnant women have uteruses about 3x2 inches.  A women close to giving birth has a uterus with 1,000 times the volume of a non pregnant uterus.

That Makes sense, It's just really hard to picture that being inside of something it just make me go  :eek:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: K Rat1417 on October 01, 2011, 01:02:56 PM
Quote
Ceopet, the uterus is normally very small (the horns are long, but small.)  They stretch with pregnancy, like with humans.  Non pregnant women have uteruses about 3x2 inches.  A women close to giving birth has a uterus with 1,000 times the volume of a non pregnant uterus.

That Makes sense, It's just really hard to picture that being inside of something it just make me go  :eek:

I felt the same way!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 01, 2011, 02:00:11 PM
Thanks for that picture lilspaz! I had seen a few pictures of what a pregnant rat uterus looks like, but I think the one you posted is a better example than the ones I was able to find. 

And holy crap, you guys - there is now no doubt in my mind that this rat is carrying Cthulu. And possibly also some jelly beans.  But definitely Cthulu.   

What did he say those ovals were up at her back that everyone keeps thinking are babies? Did he say?

It was pretty much what I was thinking - the top one is probably just the boundary of the peritoneal cavity, the one on her rump is either a muscle or some fat tissue and the one under her leg is just an artifact because the x-ray is so crappy.  He said he saw some gas bubbles in there in the middle (that's what the darker areas are), but he said it wasn't abnormal or anything. 

In other news, Cooper was so naughty last night!  We let her out on the couch for playtime and snacks (hard boiled egg, chicken baby food and blueberries) and she was doing everything within her power to cause trouble.  She tore up the couch, chewed up a blanket, climbed onto the window sill and tried to chew out the screen, became completely fixated on getting inside an empty tortilla chips bag (even though she had her own buffet of snacks right in front of her), and when we moved the tortilla chip bag off the couch, she very nearly escaped onto the floor trying to get to it again.  She was so pleased with herself - whenever she'd do something naughty, she'd popcorn (well, as much as a heavy rat can) across the couch and back afterward.  She even hand-wrestled with me a little.  She's such a goofball.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 01, 2011, 10:30:16 PM
I just took some new belly pics while Cooper and her friends were out running around on the couch:

(http://i.imgur.com/Ukj64l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zNzZvl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HRSEel.jpg)

If looking pregnant was an olympic sport, Cooper would win a medal for sure.


Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: applecavy on October 01, 2011, 10:31:18 PM
Wow. That poor, poor creature.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 01, 2011, 10:34:19 PM
Wow. That poor, poor creature.

I feel so bad for her!  She can barely pull herself around anymore.  I mean, she has to be getting pretty close, right? She can't possibly get any bigger...  :eek:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: rodentsrevenge on October 01, 2011, 10:36:08 PM
poor thing looks like a football with legs!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 01, 2011, 10:46:21 PM
poor thing looks like a football with legs!

Or a less purple version of Grimace:

(http://withduckandgoose.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/grimace.gif)




Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on October 01, 2011, 11:05:02 PM
She is light bulb shaped.. Did she eat a light bulb? lol
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MaatAset on October 01, 2011, 11:45:10 PM
She is light bulb shaped.. Did she eat a light bulb? lol

LOL This and Grimace.. I  :heart: this thread..  :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: strangeduck on October 02, 2011, 01:54:59 AM
She definitely looks like she's about to pop...although...I'm not sure how long Cthulu gestates.  Anyone else?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 02:22:15 AM
So I think I may have just found some blood spots in Cooper's nest...

I'm not positive yet since it could just be porphyrin spots from one of the others sneezing or something, but I'm very guardedly preparing myself for babies in the nearish future.

I moved Cooper to the lower level of the DCN, which has been eeper-proofed. She's not happy about being separated from her friends, but she's settling down a bit and making another nest.   

She somehow looks less pregnant, though. Like, she looked crazy pregnant about 3 hours ago and now she just looks kind of pudgy. And when I was moving her down to the lower level, she didn't feel as... firm? I don't know how to describe it. Maybe I'm just freaking out.  Do rats' preggo bellies get less firm when they go into labor?

No matter how pregnant she looks and acts, I'm still kind of incredulous about this whole thing - like, I don't think I'll believe she was ever pregnant until I physically see eepers.  And even then, I'll be like "where did you get those?"
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: rodentsrevenge on October 02, 2011, 02:34:06 AM
dun nuh.... dun nuh... dun nuh dun nuh dun nuh...

imminent eeper alert!


maybe possibly. or maybe it's just pudge.  :cheeky:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: GhostMouse on October 02, 2011, 03:22:40 AM
Do you think she could look less pregnant because you're getting used to her looking (and feeling) pregnant? Like, what was "crazy pregnant" to you earlier is now "Oh, that's what Cooper's like" ?

I have no idea, just throwing that out there. I've been following this and I'm so glad it's not a pyo!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 02, 2011, 03:48:18 AM
What have been her daily weights for the last few days?  The weights often tell the story.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Livideum on October 02, 2011, 04:45:38 AM
I hope Coopers doing ok (and you, I bet this is super stressful/oddly exciting) and we can both hope that if she is in fact pregnant that she is the only one of the girls that is!
I still am hoping for like .. weird gas or something...  :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: ceopet on October 02, 2011, 07:52:22 AM
Did she have them?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Melissaratmama on October 02, 2011, 08:23:20 AM
Any babies yet??
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on October 02, 2011, 10:15:54 AM
*chews off her fingernails in anticipation*
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: RattiesSix on October 02, 2011, 01:34:48 PM
Do rats' bellies drop when they are close to birth? I know tons of other animals and people do. That could be the reason she feels less round.

This is the best pregnancy thread ever. Hope she's doing alright!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 02, 2011, 01:42:25 PM
Yep they get a low down bulgy look...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 02:04:45 PM
No babies yet.  ???  ???

She's nesting like crazy, but I haven't seen any more blood spots on the paper towels, so it could have just been a false alarm before (Cooper's sister Millie is still sick, so it's totally possible that it was just porphyrin from a particularly hard sneeze). 

This is just killing me, though. She HATES being away from her friends. She can smell them above her on the top level, so she spends all her time clinging to the side of the cage and spidering around frantically, trying to get out to be with her cagemates. Being alone really stresses her out.  While I'm awake to supervise, I let her be with her sister on the lower level, but then they BOTH panic and spider around trying to get to Murphy and Elliot.  It's heartbreaking  :(
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: wickedrodent on October 02, 2011, 02:36:34 PM
I've been stalking this thread for quite a while. Lol. When/if she finally pops, you should totally use a cars naming theme. Lol. Cooper reminds me of mini cooper. Lol. Lots of baby name possibilities with that. XD Royce (rolls royce), Ford, Audi, Beetle/Bug, Porche, etc. Lol
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 02:43:20 PM
I've been stalking this thread for quite a while. Lol. When/if she finally pops, you should totally use a cars naming theme. Lol. Cooper reminds me of mini cooper. Lol. Lots of baby name possibilities with that. XD Royce (rolls royce), Ford, Audi, Beetle/Bug, Porche, etc. Lol

I've been avoiding picking out names because I'm still so skeptical about there even being babies in there, but I kind of like the car thing.  In fact, we very nearly named Cooper "Mercedes" (pronounced with a heavy Spanish accent). We also considered Portia, which is kind of like "Porsche."

If we end up going with a theme, I'll definitely consider it.

 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 03:20:15 PM
What have been her daily weights for the last few days?  The weights often tell the story.

Here's what we've got (we only got a digital scale a couple days ago, so the first few weights are from vet visits):
 
Friday (9/23): 340
Wednesday (9/28): 390
Friday (9/30): 418
Saturday (10/1): 426
Sunday (10/2): 435
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on October 02, 2011, 04:59:58 PM
Besides the vet visits have you been weighing at the same time of day? Even if you aren't it does look like a very significant weight gain.

I can't wait until this mystery is solved. This is more suspenseful than any movie!

hypothetically if the babies exist they should be named after mystery books/movies/characters.

I hope something happens soon for all of our sanity, but especially yours Allie.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Dragonfly on October 02, 2011, 05:18:47 PM
I know.. I can't wait to find out the outcome of this.. How long have you had her?!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: rodentsrevenge on October 02, 2011, 05:20:17 PM
if there are eepers all up in there, i think they should be named after all the things people thought they saw in the x-ray tbh.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 05:29:45 PM
Besides the vet visits have you been weighing at the same time of day? Even if you aren't it does look like a very significant weight gain.

I can't wait until this mystery is solved. This is more suspenseful than any movie!

hypothetically if the babies exist they should be named after mystery books/movies/characters.

I hope something happens soon for all of our sanity, but especially yours Allie.

Thanks Christy :) 

I've been weighing her at around the same time (within an hour) since I've had the digital scale. I'll weigh her again around 5:00, since that's when two of her last three vet appointments were (the middle one was at 2:00). 

I like the mystery books/movies/characters idea!  Nancy Drew would be a great name, as would Sherlock and Watson.

I know.. I can't wait to find out the outcome of this.. How long have you had her?!

I've had her for 17 days now! If anything's going to happen, it should be soon!
 
if there are eepers all up in there, i think they should be named after all the things people thought they saw in the x-ray tbh.

Cthulu, Alienface, Bubbles, Skull, Bunny, Florida, Storagedeposits, Blobs and Ovalshapes!  The perfect little family!


Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: rodentsrevenge on October 02, 2011, 05:31:38 PM

if there are eepers all up in there, i think they should be named after all the things people thought they saw in the x-ray tbh.

Cthulu, Alienface, Bubbles, Skull, Bunny, Florida, Storagedeposits, Blobs and Ovalshapes!  The perfect little family!


you forgot It.  :poke:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 02, 2011, 05:32:00 PM
I would say a few more days, but preggy moms are always in the business to confuse us :P
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: K Rat1417 on October 02, 2011, 05:33:30 PM
Sherlock and Watson would be AWESOME!! I'm kind of abbsessed with the movies (Robert Downey JR One) and the books!
Btw i've been following this thread just not commenting (I've had nothing useful to say) and Hopefully something will happen soon!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on October 02, 2011, 05:43:49 PM
I see a Nancy Drew in that x-ray I don't know about you! You could name one M. Night Shyamalan for the unexpected twist ending ;) (or M. Night Sham-a-llama-ding-dong... which is what I call him).

If its a false pregnancy I'm going to start calling Cooper M. Night  :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on October 02, 2011, 06:15:53 PM

if there are eepers all up in there, i think they should be named after all the things people thought they saw in the x-ray tbh.

Cthulu, Alienface, Bubbles, Skull, Bunny, Florida, Storagedeposits, Blobs and Ovalshapes!  The perfect little family!

OMG, there MUST be one named Ovalshapes!  :yelcutelaugh: Storagedeposits is pretty awesome too!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 10:02:48 PM
Okay, this is gonna get weird, guys. Cooper seems to be oozing a bit of poo...

Please bear with my while I try to describe this and figure out whether it's something to worry about.

She's been asleep most of the afternoon lying completely flat on her stomach with her legs behind her (like a frog). I checked on her and I lifted her tail to see if there was any blood. There wasn't any blood, but I noticed that there was a very thin string of soft poo slowly oozing out of her bum.  Have you ever seen one of those black snake fireworks? Like that, but much smaller and poopier. And when she stretches, more comes out (she seems to be very tired and she's been stretching a lot).  She doesn't seem to notice the poo coming out.

Is this something that I need to worry about? Are pregnant rats supposed to ooze squishy poop? Has anyone here witnessed something like this? She seems completely fine other than being a little more sleepy and the part where she is oozing poop like a tube of toothpaste. 

I swear, ever since I adopted Cooper, I feel like I spend half my time talking about poop.  She just does it so often and so weirdly... I've never had a rat who poops this much.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: rodentsrevenge on October 02, 2011, 10:12:31 PM
i have no idea about the poop thing, but the stretching could mean she's hurting. poor cooper, stop that!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 10:31:50 PM
i have no idea about the poop thing, but the stretching could mean she's hurting. poor cooper, stop that!

She doesn't seem to be sucking her sides in like they do when they're doing "ouchie" stretches, but then again, maybe there's no room for her sides to go inward  :-\  She does yawn along with the stretch most times, though.  To me it looks like relaxed, tired stretching. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: applecavy on October 02, 2011, 10:35:04 PM
Maybe really bad contractions?  :-\
I'd probably be running for the evet, because I am full of paranoia.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on October 02, 2011, 10:41:00 PM
Is it possible she has late onset megacolon? What color is her poo? Does it have any redish tinge to it?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 10:52:47 PM
Maybe really bad contractions?  :-\
I'd probably be running for the evet, because I am full of paranoia.

She doesn't look uncomfortable at all, otherwise I'd be out the door already for sure!  The stretching just looks like normal, tired rat stretching (with the yawn and the little arm flourish at the end), but I thought it might be relevant since she's doing it a lot.

Is it possible she has late onset megacolon? What color is her poo? Does it have any redish tinge to it?

Oh god, I hope not. I don't think it is, though. When my vet was palpating Cooper's belly on Friday, he said he couldn't feel any obvious constipation (we wanted to rule that out as a cause of her distended belly, especially since she was so backed up to begin with), and she's well over the age when late onset usually crops up. But are smeezes a high risk marking? If she does end up having babies, will I need to worry about MC with them?

EDIT: the poop problems could also be due to the Clavamox she was on.  I've been giving her a bit of yogurt to help, but her poops have still been pretty soft and orange/yellow-ish. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: applecavy on October 02, 2011, 10:55:06 PM
Smeeze/Himi are really safe, I thought. A lot of reputable breeders work with Siamese, and they wouldn't otherwise...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on October 02, 2011, 10:59:23 PM
Siamese is not known to be linked to MC. As far as I know, it's mostly a problem with the high white markings. I don't think you have to be worried about it. :) Hopefully the poo problem is just linked to the ABs...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on October 02, 2011, 11:05:13 PM
It's most likely the ABs.  Rubie had to go on Amoxy shortly after the Gemstones were born because for a URI and it gave her some super funky poos... squishy, smelly, weird shapes.  I gave her Bene-bac allll the time and it didn't seem to help at all.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 02, 2011, 11:11:53 PM
Well, I just checked on her again and it appears as though the pooing has ceased for the time being.  I took her out on the couch so I could observe her a little better and she's acting totally normal now.

I've heard that near the end of a pregnancy, people often feel like they always have to "go,"could that be what this is? Do pregnant rats poo and pee more often?  I'd imagine their poor little organs would get pretty cramped...

It's most likely the ABs.  Rubie had to go on Amoxy shortly after the Gemstones were born because for a URI and it gave her some super funky poos... squishy, smelly, weird shapes.  I gave her Bene-bac allll the time and it didn't seem to help at all.

Did her poops eventually firm up on their own?  Charlie had some squishy poops when she was on Clavamox, but it was pretty mild and she got over it really quickly after I started giving her yogurt. Cooper has been off the Clavamox for almost a week now, but she's still having the squishy poops.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on October 02, 2011, 11:44:39 PM

I've heard that near the end of a pregnancy, people often feel like they always have to "go,"could that be what this is? Do pregnant rats poo and pee more often?  I'd imagine their poor little organs would get pretty cramped...

A combination of the two, perhaps... yes, the pressure of the baby makes you feel like you have to "go" a lot, so that, combined with the looseness from the ABs, probably contributed to poor Cooper's GI effusiveness. Plus, if she were starting to have contractions, she might have been laying there doing some pushing, which would have... well, you know!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: RattiesSix on October 02, 2011, 11:56:55 PM

I've heard that near the end of a pregnancy, people often feel like they always have to "go,"could that be what this is? Do pregnant rats poo and pee more often?  I'd imagine their poor little organs would get pretty cramped...

A combination of the two, perhaps... yes, the pressure of the baby makes you feel like you have to "go" a lot, so that, combined with the looseness from the ABs, probably contributed to poor Cooper's GI effusiveness. Plus, if she were starting to have contractions, she might have been laying there doing some pushing, which would have... well, you know!

I'm going with this theory, too.

I seem to always have the rats who get squishy poos on ABs. My least favourite thing, lol. Even with the yogurt, sometimes they seem to have issues with it. Unless it's unusually coloured, or she seems to be in pain, I'd really assume that it's the ABs.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: eyohkay on October 03, 2011, 12:30:03 AM
It's most likely the ABs.  Rubie had to go on Amoxy shortly after the Gemstones were born because for a URI and it gave her some super funky poos... squishy, smelly, weird shapes.  I gave her Bene-bac allll the time and it didn't seem to help at all.

Did her poops eventually firm up on their own?  Charlie had some squishy poops when she was on Clavamox, but it was pretty mild and she got over it really quickly after I started giving her yogurt. Cooper has been off the Clavamox for almost a week now, but she's still having the squishy poops.

It took several days, probably more than a week, for her poops to finally harden up and become normal again.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: rodentsrevenge on October 03, 2011, 06:52:27 PM
how is miss pooper cooper today?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 03, 2011, 07:40:02 PM
how is miss pooper cooper today?

Well, she looks perky and happy, but still no babies. And her weight was down a little bit at her weigh-in today. She was at 435 grams yesterday and 426 grams today. 

If there are babies in there, I wish they would hurry up and show themselves because I don't think I can take much more of this worrying. 

Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: rodentsrevenge on October 03, 2011, 07:42:34 PM
come on pooper cooper, reveal your secrets!  :poke:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: dolln on October 03, 2011, 10:10:01 PM
How long do you have until it can be ruled out that she is pregnant?   
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on October 03, 2011, 10:21:15 PM

Well, she looks perky and happy, but still no babies. And her weight was down a little bit at her weigh-in today. She was at 435 grams yesterday and 426 grams today. 


Did you weigh her at the same time?  While a drop in weight isn't that unusual, it's less common in the later stages of pregnancy.  If there's another loss tomorrow, it could be she's absorbing the babies. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MollyElizbeth on October 03, 2011, 10:39:38 PM
I've been lurking through this thread as well.  I know you are super stressed Allie but I can't help but giggle a bit through this whole thread.  I hope Cooper pulls through...whatever she has/is. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 03, 2011, 11:18:06 PM

Well, she looks perky and happy, but still no babies. And her weight was down a little bit at her weigh-in today. She was at 435 grams yesterday and 426 grams today. 


Did you weigh her at the same time?  While a drop in weight isn't that unusual, it's less common in the later stages of pregnancy.  If there's another loss tomorrow, it could be she's absorbing the babies.

I weighed her at the same time, but I woke her up from sleep today for her weighing and yesterday she was already awake. She could have eaten right before yesterday and then not today.

How long do you have until it can be ruled out that she is pregnant?   

We adopted her on September 15th, so even if she got pregnant that same day, we should see babies before October 8th (23 days later). If not, we can probably assume she's either not pregnant, or that she resorbed the litter.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on October 03, 2011, 11:38:38 PM

Well, she looks perky and happy, but still no babies. And her weight was down a little bit at her weigh-in today. She was at 435 grams yesterday and 426 grams today. 


Did you weigh her at the same time?  While a drop in weight isn't that unusual, it's less common in the later stages of pregnancy.  If there's another loss tomorrow, it could be she's absorbing the babies.

I weighed her at the same time, but I woke her up from sleep today for her weighing and yesterday she was already awake. She could have eaten right before yesterday and then not today.

It is amazing the difference a big feed makes to their weight.  I had a girl on pregnancy watch, and out of curiosity I weighed her before she ate in the morning, and after.  There was a 21g weight gain after her breakfast!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 04, 2011, 08:37:07 AM
Let us know her next weights...a steady drop could mean reabsorption of all or some of the babies. Glad she's perky and happy while you are stressed and worried.   :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 04, 2011, 08:15:34 PM
I've decided to start weighing Cooper twice a day (when I wake up and again at 5 PM) so I can average the weights together for a more accurate number.

This morning, she was 433 grams, and at 5:00, she was 426 again.  So no weight loss from yesterday, but no gain either. 

In other news, she made a gigantic, completely over-the-top nest last night.  She tried to pile every single thing in the cage into one corner.  She's lying in there right now looking very pleased with herself. 
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Sailorgrrl on October 04, 2011, 08:22:42 PM
In other news, she made a gigantic, completely over-the-top nest last night.  She tried to pile every single thing in the cage into one corner.  She's lying in there right now looking very pleased with herself.

 :yelcutelaugh:   Pictures, please! Is she still *looking* pregnant, at least?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 04, 2011, 08:28:30 PM
In other news, she made a gigantic, completely over-the-top nest last night.  She tried to pile every single thing in the cage into one corner.  She's lying in there right now looking very pleased with herself.

 :yelcutelaugh:   Pictures, please! Is she still *looking* pregnant, at least?

I'll see if I can get some pictures in a little bit. I need to go buy some batteries first!

But yes, she still looks quite pregnant.  I wince a little when I look at her because she looks so very pregnant and so very uncomfortable.  I had her out on the couch yesterday and she fell asleep all sprawled out on her belly. When she was all relaxed and pancaked, I could really see how far her belly expands out to either side.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Wren's Ridge on October 05, 2011, 04:12:49 AM
Poor Cooper. I know how she feels though, 1st time mom, 8 months pregnant and feel and look  like I consumed a blue whale for dinner. Give her super scritches for me, God knows I could use some myself right now...
We had a rescue a while back that ended up being pregnant and went through alot of the same things you're going through with Cooper. She was in fairly decent shape, a little on the small/scrawny size but otherwise healthy. We had her for roughly 9 days when she started showing. Both my husband and I kept a really close eye on her and placed her and her sister in a single level cage with a high sided bottom pan and made all the necessary preparations for pups... It was a strange progression, steady weight gain that seemed to "plateau" for a day or two before picking back up, nesting off and on, etc... She finally started "grooming" around her nipples and sporadically nesting around day 15 and became very restless at the start of day 16. That was on a Sunday. My husband and I left for church and when we got home, we had 10 pink jelly beans waiting for us and not long after our arrival, she graced us with another two, totaling 12 little eepers. I know each rat's pregnancy and patterns are different, but maybe she'll suprise you here real soon. Either way, best wishes to both you and Cooper.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on October 05, 2011, 04:40:46 PM
I was just going to second the request for pictures!  :poke: :cheeky:

Poor Cooper. She sounds pretty uncomfortable. I hope she pops soon!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Eluin Gentry on October 07, 2011, 03:39:06 AM
Any babies yet?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 07, 2011, 02:39:24 PM
Sorry for not updating in a couple days! I've been busy and the news is pretty anticlimactic.  Prepare for anticlimactic-ness in 3... 2... 1...

There are no babies yet. Tomorrow will be 23 days from when I adopted her, so I can then be pretty sure she's not pregnant (or, if she is, that the pregnancy is false or she has started to resorb the litter). 

Weights for the past two days:

10/5: 438 grams
10/6: 445 grams

I haven't gotten a second weight on her today to average out (I've been weighing her twice a day, at the same times, and then averaging it because her weight fluctuates so much), but this morning she was around 440 grams, which is her highest morning weight.  Also, I've seen all three of her cage mates go into heat, but Cooper hasn't yet, at least not that I've been able to tell. 

I'm going to make a vet appointment for Monday in case she doesn't pop this weekend.  She's acting perfectly normal and happy, but if she's not pregnant, there's obviously something else going on and I want to get to the bottom of it. 

In other news, have I mentioned how much I adore this rat? If I haven't (and I'm pretty sure I have, but I need to say it again), Cooper is totally awesome, guys. She's so love-y and playful and, no matter what, I'm really happy she's mine. Every time I have her out, I find myself thinking "how are you so great? How did nobody else appreciate how great you are?"  It blows my mind.  /sappy little interlude.


Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: AlexP on October 07, 2011, 03:04:43 PM
Definitely keep us updated! Hopefully it's either babies and there's a nice, easy delivery with healthy babies and mom, or something that while no fun for either of you (or your wallet!) is treatable and not life-threatening.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MaatAset on October 07, 2011, 04:22:39 PM
In other news, have I mentioned how much I adore this rat? If I haven't (and I'm pretty sure I have, but I need to say it again), Cooper is totally awesome, guys. She's so love-y and playful and, no matter what, I'm really happy she's mine. Every time I have her out, I find myself thinking "how are you so great? How did nobody else appreciate how great you are?"  It blows my mind.  /sappy little interlude.

I know exactly what you mean!  Two of my current rescues, Saber and Isis, were just sitting in their foster home for MONTHS with no one adopting them.  They looked cute, what with their dumbo ears and all, but what really got me was how incredibly friendly they were.  The very night I brought them home, after a 2+ hour car ride, they were happily running around my couch, climbing all over me and my friend, giving kisses, bruxing, and being total love bugs.  It was absolutely beyond me how they could possibly have gone so long without finding a loving permanent home (or even how they ended up needing one to begin with).  Don't get me wrong, I love Mia and Lula very much too, but they both are taking a little more understanding and patience to come out of their shells and I could maybe see how a pet needing more work could take a little more time to be adopted.  I just couldn't understand how two absolutely adorable, extremely friendly, and perfectly well adjusted pets could seem to unwanted by the general rat adopting public.

That said, I am glad no one else got them before me ;)

Cooper, quit being a tease! haha  :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 07, 2011, 05:09:41 PM
The averaging out isn't really accurate which is why we say once a day only.  I have done twice a day and it was insane the amount of different between a morning and a night weight, etc.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Livideum on October 08, 2011, 02:51:36 AM

In other news, have I mentioned how much I adore this rat? If I haven't (and I'm pretty sure I have, but I need to say it again), Cooper is totally awesome, guys. She's so love-y and playful and, no matter what, I'm really happy she's mine. Every time I have her out, I find myself thinking "how are you so great? How did nobody else appreciate how great you are?"  It blows my mind.  /sappy little interlude.

I keep thinking the same thing about my girls, they are absolutely amazing! I think River might actually be hitting the heart rat status, I always try to not play favorites but the way she will just sit in my hands and brux and then 10 minutes later she is popcorning all over the living room (they all learned to jump off the couch to play in the big fun room  :P) Something about the 3 of them is just kind of different, and they want attention So badly all the time. All 3 will pull my hand in the cage and Gwen will actually hold onto it with her teeth if I try to pull it away before she is done giving kisses!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 08, 2011, 08:20:15 AM
How long have you had your girl now?  You started the post with a "obviously pregnant" girl 10 days ago.  She's only gaining about 7 grams a day still?

What is the total gain then?  50 grams?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Stacy M on October 08, 2011, 10:17:44 AM
Today is 23 days since she got her so it is fairly certain something else is going on I think.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 08, 2011, 10:20:01 AM
Today is 23 days since she got her so it is fairly certain something else is going on I think.

Could be a phantom pregnancy...
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Hippidy on October 10, 2011, 12:37:48 AM
Any updates? How M. Night Cooper doing?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: betuana on October 10, 2011, 08:02:44 PM
Crossing my fingers here that its just a false pregnancy, and she continues to just do well and eventually just evens out. I've known of a few rats other people have had who have had false pregnancies - gained weight, nested, acted like they were going to pop...and then....nothing, weights drifted back towards normal, no problems for the mom, just no babies. Seems like that would be an ideal outcome for her, no babies to deal with, no health problems, just some weight gain!

Whatever happens, hoping that it turns out well for her and the other ratties! This long after getting her and no babies...doesn't seem like a successful pregnancy is likely, so a false one or just a weight surge would be better. We'll be watching for updates!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Bananana on October 15, 2011, 03:10:58 PM
Okay, so we finally have a verdict. 

Are you guys ready?

[drumroll...]

.
.
.
.
.
.
.


She's been faking the whole time!!!

We were finally able to get her in for an ultrasound yesterday, and the ultrasonographer couldn't find anything noteworthy whatsoever in there. No fetuses, no masses, no tissue clumps, no pus, no constipation. She just looks really, really pregnant because of hormonal abnormalities.

Our vet gave her a dex injection to maybe help snap her out of it, and he said she should return to normal within the next few weeks.

I'm happy because this is the absolute best-case scenario. I just have a crazy rat who thinks she's pregnant! Though it would have been fun to have babies, I'm really glad that's not what ended up happening. 

Anyway, thank you so much for all of your support through this.  It was a truly crazy few weeks, and being able to joke around about it a little with you guys and be reassured was so very helpful.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Dragonfly on October 15, 2011, 04:22:49 PM
I am so glad it wasn't anything serious!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: cerulean.blue on October 15, 2011, 06:22:09 PM
I'm glad to hear that Cooper is okay!  :BlueDumboSmile:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: applecavy on October 15, 2011, 10:45:34 PM
Yay Cooper!
That really is a best case scenario. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Siana on October 16, 2011, 02:00:49 AM
Well, she had everyone guessing, didn't she!  So glad she's ok. :)
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MaatAset on October 16, 2011, 02:28:32 AM
I think Chthulu could easily evade an ultrasound.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Livideum on October 16, 2011, 04:15:26 AM
I think Chthulu could easily evade an ultrasound.  Just sayin'.

 :laughing4:

Let us all pray that that is not the case!
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: ceopet on October 16, 2011, 06:16:54 PM
Glad to hear everything turned out ok.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Been to the Mountaintop on October 22, 2011, 12:45:25 AM
I always thought LOL was just an expression, but my reaction to "Guys, I think my rat is pregnant with Cthulu" woke up my oldest.  I had tears coming down. I couldn't stop, and flip flopped between giddy laughter over "xray alien guessing games" to heartfelt sniffing over how much you have come to love her. It probably didn't help that I delivered one of my favorite fosters to a wonderful home tonight. Both an up and a down. After a long day in a car, and a spell without his water bottle because I didn't know it had come off, he ran to peer at his new Mom and Daughter with such an alert and cheerful expression. Chipper had his little hands on the bars, looking right at them and "smiling," and the girl said, "Mom! He looks just like Ratatouille!" And so he did. Except, of course, my 11-year-old pointed out in disgust, he is not blue.

You've given us a sampling of all the ups and downs of rat ownership and community in one thread. Thanks, I needed that. Sorry you went through it, though. Really, truly, LOL (sniff where are the tissues?)  :heart: :heart: :heart: 

Oh no another gale of helpless laughter when spell check did not recognize "Cthulu." I'm gonna die  :yelcutelaugh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Eluin Gentry on October 22, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
There seems to be a lot of that going around lately. My cousin has been waiting to see if her lab/rott mix was pregnant. She actually thought that the dogs water had broken all over her couch and that there would be puppies soon. Then a day passed. No puppies, no signs of labor. It turns out that the silly dog was just vibing off of my other cousin's preggy hormones and having a weird phantom pregnancy. It also turns out that dogs don't really have a water to break, so I'm guessing the poor confused dog just peed the couch. At least alls well that ends well.
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: lilspaz68 on October 22, 2011, 08:25:53 AM
I went through a phantom pregnancy with an older girl...she was a former BYB's breeder (black rex dumbo girl #1) so I guess her body knew all about being pregnant.  She gained  weight, she looked pregnant, it was really freaky.  I got her spayed just in case there was something else going on, but there was no babies, no infection, nothing.   :doh:
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: MaatAset on October 22, 2011, 03:18:59 PM
How is M. Night Cooper anyway?  Has she started to go back to normal?
Title: Re: Possible pregnancy in rescued lady rat - need opinions
Post by: Dragonfly on October 22, 2011, 03:40:54 PM
How is M. Night Cooper anyway?  Has she started to go back to normal?

I also want to know...