Author Topic: Raw Diet  (Read 19002 times)

Offline ~Lin

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Raw Diet
« on: April 29, 2006, 10:27:56 PM »
I am in the process of changing my dogs food over to Natures Variety Feed. Right now she is on mixed kibble, the new in with the old. She is still on the old canned food, I haven't begun that switch yet. I was planning on feeding her kibble and canned daily, with Natures Variety raw diet supplemented in, every couple days. She has had 2 of the raw diet patties so far, one 3 days ago and one yesterday. Today, she had diarrhea. And, all over the floor in the guest bedroom. I never go in there, and I wouldn't have even found it for a while except I smelled it. The litter box never smell that bad, so I went to investigate. So... I'm assuming there is something shocking her system here. Like I said, I havent changed the canned food yet, and the kibble is being switched over slowly. So it must be having given her the raw diet. I didn't think I was giving her too much too soon, so, advice?

Lin

Offline dragynflye

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2006, 02:36:16 PM »
when you switch to a raw diet, the dogs will often go through a detox period....  massive diareah, maybe some weight loss, their coat might look a bit splotchy, ect...  exact signs vary by dog.  it can last any where from a couple of days to a couple of weeks.....  not fun!  i had two great danes and a saint bernard all detoxing at the same time!  but trust me, a raw diet truely is healthier and sooooooo much worth it!  good luck!

and here is a link to my dane forum's raw room.  loooooots of helpful information on diet, and a great place to post any questions you might have....  don't worry, they'll forgive you for not having a dane!  :D
http://www.danesonline.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=196

Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2006, 10:12:45 AM »
Can you explain to me what the raw diet consists of?

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2006, 10:20:30 AM »
Raw meat...

Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2006, 10:29:51 AM »
What kinds?  how much, still feed dry and can food to?

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2006, 10:38:44 AM »
I don't know the amounts, usualy a variety of kinds. You can make your own raw diet by grinding up the meat yourself, or theres a prepackaged raw diet from Natures Variety which is what I'm using. I'm a veggie, so I don't want to handle meat. With this I thaw a patty and feed. And with still feeding canned and dry, is up to you. Many people love raw diets, and it is what our canine and feline friends are meant to eat. I think Kim feeds purely raw, I was hoping she would respond in this thread. I can't give up the convience of kibble, so I'm still feeding dry. Canned food is a much better option over dry food, better nutrition and also better for hydration. So I feed both canned and dry daily, and want to feed raw as sort of a treat, a raw patty every 2 days or so. The feed I'm using for both my cats and dog, Natures Variety, also has a raw diet biocoating on the kibble. It contains the probiotics and enzymes that are found in raw diets..

Offline dragynflye

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2006, 11:09:13 AM »
processed raw meat is usually not very good.  grinding it can mix bacteria and contaminants into the meat.  also, one of the main benefits of a raw diet is.... THE BONES!  they help clean the teeth (making the breath smell better) and help clean out the intestinal track.  raw, uncooked bones are totally healthy for your dogs.  you should avoid cooked, process bones (including the smoked ones at pet stores) because the splinter.  raw bones are not dried out and are flexible, so they break when your dog chews them, but won't splinter.  you use a variety of meats.... lots of chicken, with turkey, beef, pork, lamb..... whatever you have available to you.  also organ meat.  all this may sound terribly expensive, but it's truly not.... i fed my four dogs (two great danes, a saint bernard and a min pin) a raw diet for about $50-$75 a month, i was paying close to $200 a month for high quality dog food before i switched.  check out the link i posted earlier..... tooooons of great info!

oh, and no, you can't feed kibble and raw.....  they digest at different rates.  because dogs have a short digestive system, raw meat doesn't sit long enough to cause problems with bacteria.  however, kibble digests much more sloooooooowly, so if you feed kibble and raw, the kibble slows the digestive process and causes the meat to sit in the stomach much longer, which can lead to problems such as salmonella.

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2006, 11:36:04 AM »
The Natures Variety raw diet is complete, with bones. About processed, every recipe Ive seen for make your own raw involves grinding?

I didn't know that about feeding kibble and raw at the same time, what should I do about all the raw patties I have? I haven't fed it since my dog had that diarrhea. She had it TWICE on my carpet, and once on my kitchen tile. I still need to go out and rent a carpet cleaner because I dont think I did a good enough job by hand. And my house has NEW carpet. I was not a happy momma... I have a raw patty defrosting that I was going to feed tonight. I thought feeding in smaller amounts would help, I had given the whole patty before, my plans tonight were 1/2 to the dog, with 1/4 to each of my cats.

Offline dragynflye

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2006, 12:48:34 PM »
nope, no grinding necessary!  i'd have a freezer full of meat, take out one day's food, put it in the fridge to start defrosting and one day's food in the sink to finish thawing.  crunching up the whole bones is not only fun for them, but keeps their mouth clean.  you would be amazed at how much better the breath of a raw-fed dog smells over that of a kibble puppy!  and passing the bones also helps keep their anal glands cleared out.  there is no real "recipe" needed for feeding a complete raw diet.... just thaw and feed!  some people think veggies are a necessity, but in reality dogs don't get much nutritional value from them.  i give mine veggies every once in a while, mainly because they like them!  the diarrhea will continue until she's use to her diet one way or the other.  you need to decide what you want to do, and, unfortunately, deal with the diarrhea for a while.  when you switch brands of kibble, you do so gradually to reduce the shock on their system and help prevent/minimize the side effects.  but when switching to raw, "weaning" them on to will prolong the detox effects and can lead to other problems, like i mentioned, salmonella.  if you wanted to keep feeding kibble and give a small bit of a patty as a treat every once in a while, i don't think that would be a problem.  if you really want to mix the two diets, you need to keep at least 8 hours between a kibble meal and a raw meal.  kibble takes about 8 hours to digest, raw takes (i think) approximately 4.  otherwise, if you decide to stick with kibble and you've got tons of these patties, try donating them to a shelter or rescue or some such.  and sorry i'm rambling.... i tend to do that!  i go off on tangents and include whatever info pops into my head whether it's relevant or not and some how forget what i was originally trying to say!  this is why i am not a good teacher....  i have a hard time sticking to or reachin a single point!

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2006, 06:54:02 PM »
I'll feed them as a treat then, in the small amounts. 1/2 a patty should be fine fed with kibble? She gets free access to her kibble. I can't give them away... They were too expensive for one, and for a second one all the shelters I know around me don't usualy even feed canned, much less raw. They take only kibble donations. And then 1/4 a patty ok per cat? I hope they don't get diarrhea, I haven't tried them on the raw except they took a couple bites before Tessa ate hers. I don't want to switch completely over raw... I'm a vegetarian and cannot handle meat on a daily basis. I have no problem doing it once a year for something special (I cooked christmas dinner one year, with turkey and ham. I also mad a 5 cheese lasagna for myself...) But the smell of meat makes me nauseous (raw isnt as bad as cooked, and you should see me gag when I opened the canned food!) and I am quite squeamish about touching it. The patties look like large hamburgers, I just pull them out and thaw and feed. Natures Variety suggests a rotation of protein, switching from a stable of dry, to canned, to raw everytime you rebuy food. I don't understand how that would work if it takes a detoxing time everytime to go to raw? I wasn't planning on that anyway, I just have a 5 gallon gravity feeder plus I feed a can nightly, usualy just before bedtime.

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2006, 01:29:12 PM »
im going to disagree.

many dogs can and do eat kibble AND raw - there is no conclusive evidence that there is anything wrong with this. most dogs that get diarrhea when switching to raw, will get it irregardless if they get kibble or raw at the same time, or go cold turkey.

many people i know feed kibble one meal, and raw the next.

in addition, while i personally feed more of the prey style, there is NOTHING wrong with ground bones and mixtures that contain such. many people are not willing, able, or ready to feed huge whole rabbits, whole turkeys, or whole sides of beef. others may not have access to them, others cannot store them.

i personally have an older female with few teeth, and she NEEDS ground most of the time beacuse i cannot get a variety into her in RMBs beacuse she cannot digest them since she is unable to chew them.

i have switched 4 dogs cold turkey to raw with no problems. i have also intermittently fed kibble and grain-y treats to some (bowie at some kibble in the first 4 months he was switched almost 4 years ago). rah continues to get kibble (EVO) as training treats, as well as other pretty gross treats simply because we go through SO MANY.

lin, sorry i didnt see this thread sooner, i musta been blind! there are tons of ways to feed raw - in fact, i personally had a FAQ i believe about how i feed it, and answering some basic questions... i thought it was over on the dog board, ill search for it.
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2006, 02:54:12 PM »
About time you got here Kim!! The night I posted this you were in chat, but not in chat. I posted the link and asked you to check it out but I guess it was just a ghost of your user. So the way I was planning is fine? To feed kibble and canned daily and every other day give a patty? Do you think the diarrhea will resolve? Today she got her 3rd patty, I hadn't fed the raw since the diarrhea before... And I'm going to keep a hawks eye on her and take her outside extra often to make sure if she has problems again its not on my floor! Id like to supplement the raw in, but I can't afford it as primary plus like Ive said I like the convience of kibble. And I'm one of those people that will NOT deal with a whole whatever raw.

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2006, 04:39:49 AM »
Ok... I have some questions. I bought some frozen raw bones? Do you know if I thaw them? I'm assuming so.. They don't say anything about feeding directions lol. I was thinking give her one in her crate when I leave, so she doesn't make a mess (they do have some meat, very little) and an added reason for her to be happy in her crate. I'm thinking when I finish the prepared patties, maybe just buying whatever meat is on sale at the grocery store... Since its not her staple diet, I could just get whatever and give it as a treat? I just don't know how Id deal with that, I REALLY don't like handling meat.

Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2006, 07:34:00 AM »
I don't know if this will help, but really feeding the prepared, you are already handling meat, so if you can handle that I would think you can handle it in other forms.  Just try to adjust to it and deal if that is what you want to feed them from time to time.

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2006, 08:08:44 AM »
by prepared do you mean the patties? I know I'm handling meat, and it smells like meat, and thats hard. But it doesnt LOOK like meat. (looks like a hamburger yes, but not say a whole chicken..) I've cooked a whole turkey before, but I was very squeamish (I wouldn't touch it without gloves lol) and that was a one time thing, rather than something regularly... I will try then, and see how it goes.

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2006, 02:31:38 PM »
thats odd, i find handling the huge raw meaty bones less gross than handling the ground stuff :) and the whole raw stuff tends to smell better!

Quote
... I have some questions. I bought some frozen raw bones? Do you know if I thaw them? I'm assuming so..

depends on your dog. some of my dogs have not liked cold bones, but most of them will eat bones frozen out of the freezer. rah gets MOST of this things frozen because that way it takes him a lot longer to eat :)

Quote
They don't say anything about feeding directions lol.

im assuming what you got is a recreational bone - mostly bone with little else on it - in which case there are no "instructions" as its really just a treat.

Quote
I was thinking give her one in her crate when I leave, so she doesn't make a mess (they do have some meat, very little) and an added reason for her to be happy in her crate.

that is upt o you, but personally my dogs are NEVER left alone with ANY bone or ANYTHING to chew on while i am gone - its way too easy to choke or get something stuck somewhere. my dogs only get bones and things to chew when i am around to monitor them and make sure they are chewing. rah is currently working on a whole buffalo tail, one of his favorites - and he is in the crate and im watching him to make sure hes ok and chewing normally.

 
Quote
I'm thinking when I finish the prepared patties, maybe just buying whatever meat is on sale at the grocery store... Since its not her staple diet, I could just get whatever and give it as a treat? I just don't know how Id deal with that, I REALLY don't like handling meat.

you can theoretically feed almost anything from the foodstore as LONG AS the bones are big and something she would need to chew. i dont buy things that have cut bone shards in them, as i find them to dangerously sharp (ie no pieces of steak with bone in, pork chops, etc). things like whole chickens, ducks, turkey, game hens, whole pork roasts, beef ribs, etc.

buy something larger than her head and it requires that she chew :)
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Offline elegy

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2006, 07:55:01 PM »
my two cents (late as usual) on the kibble and raw thing is that i started feeding kibble for breakfast and raw at night, then switched to completely raw, and am now back to feeding probably 75% kibble meals and 25% raw meals, and the only time i've ever had any problem was the night i fed the canned food that i got for free :p

i do feed my dogs frozen recreational bones. everything else i thaw. and i do leave recreational bones with them alone in their crates. i know there's a risk, but i have to leave them *something* to do when i leave.

i was totally squicked out by the whole handling of raw meat in the beginning, but i got used to it. the only thing that really bothers me is liver.

Offline Heather

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2006, 10:57:23 PM »
Ok, I have a question/concern. I am feeding Amos some raw bits here and there. However, I am very concerned with the antibiotics and hormones added in commercial meats. Does that seem to affect dogs and defeat the purpose of a "natural" diet? I don't even know WHERE I could find all natural meats with no added hormones or antibiotics. I don't think it would be cost effective to be buying raw meats and such that are all organic. It'd probably cost me $100 a month to feed the dog. :shocked2:

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2006, 11:00:38 PM »
without getting into it since i am exhausted -
do you think the meat in the dog food is at all higher quality? the meat used in dog food is usually not even fit for human consumption.
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2006, 11:00:51 PM »
For all natural meats and such, youd need to look for them to be labeled Organic. Around here, the only place to find organic meats is at a health food store. Theres a large chain, Whole Foods where you can get organic and healthy food at reasonable prices. I used to go when I lived in Texas, but back in Indiana we don't have it.

Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2006, 11:12:30 PM »
the meat used in dog food is usually not even fit for human consumption.

Begin the stoning - raw meat isn't fit for human consumption either.

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2006, 11:14:29 PM »
But the only reason raw meat wouldnt be 'fit' for human consumption, is being raw. Not the quality of the meat. However, humans are the only animals that cook their meat before eating it. So its perfectly normal for a dog to consume raw meat.

Offline GinKaruja

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2006, 04:56:46 AM »


Begin the stoning - raw meat isn't fit for human consumption either.
[/quote]
Detour....No, *mishandled* raw meat isn't fit for human consumption.  I prefer my red meat cold in the middle or cooked on only one side, no matter how much it may disgust people.  Plenty of people around the world will eat raw, or very nearly raw meat, and there are plenty of raw dishes served worldwide.  Steak tartar and sushi for example.  Not to mention most dried meat was dried from raw.  Many of the problems comes from meat(of any kind) that has been left sitting out too long, isn't fresh, or hasn't been kept cold enough.  Most people are just so paranoid these days it's absurd.  Life is full of risks, I'm not going to sacrifice flavor just because my fiance goes 'you're gonna get sick', it's my choice.  I do not eat undercooked poultry or pork, something about the flavor of poultry, and domestic pork...~shudders~ I can't often eat even fully cooked pork other than bacon.
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Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2006, 07:47:42 AM »
the meat used in dog food is usually not even fit for human consumption.

Begin the stoning - raw meat isn't fit for human consumption either.

I know people who prefer their meat raw and will eat it that way...... So......

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2006, 09:24:36 PM »
if you had the optoin to eat cooked but diseased, downed piece of cow, or a piece of raw humanely raised healthy cow, which would you eat?

like ginka said, humans around the world eat raw things all the time. but i dont know of ANY culture/group that eats kibble :)
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