Author Topic: Raw Diet  (Read 18908 times)

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2006, 12:15:51 PM »
every person is entitled to their opinion. the fact remains you will not easily find a vet well educated on the topic, period - and if you arent well educated on the topic, its hard to give an educated opinion :)

theres no reason to grind up the bones at all -just today rah had a whole chicken. yesterday he ate a whole rabbit.

thats why god gave them teeth :)
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Offline osutigeress

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2006, 02:19:31 PM »


theres no reason to grind up the bones at all -just today rah had a whole chicken. yesterday he ate a whole rabbit.

thats why god gave them teeth :)

I think her reasoning for grinding up the bones was due to the fact she'd pulled so many out of dogs' throats.

I'm honestly not pro or con...my theory is "to each his own" if you feed your dog a proper raw diet, great, if your dog is on a raw diet and is skinny, find what you're missing, or switch back to Eukanuba.



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Offline 1lila1

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2006, 07:12:15 PM »
I have some questions about the raw diet:

1.  Can I give my dog a chicken or turkey neck or back everyday while she is on kibble?  She gets her main meal in the morning but I was thinking of giving her a piece of a raw meaty bone each night while I research and decide if I want to do the full raw diet.

2.  I feed her Eagle Pack Holistic Select both dry and canned right now.  She is healthy, is 7 years old, and people often mistake her for a puppy.  If there are no problems how would a raw diet improve her general condition?

3. I spend about $40-$50 a month on food.  Would this be aprox. what I'd pay on a raw diet?

Thanks
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Offline Heather

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2006, 02:10:56 AM »
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

This is a good FAQs page. I've been feeding raw for over a month now and I'm just starting to find the right places to buy food for cheap. It takes some tweaking in the diet to find the good deals but it costs about as much per month as a high quality food, often times ceaper. Amos eats around $40 a month but now I have a place to buy much cheaper chicken and I hunt the almost expired meats out too.

Offline 1lila1

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2006, 05:37:54 PM »
Thanks, that page looks really interesting.  The raw diet seems so simple.  The hard part seems finding all the stuff at reasonable prices.  Thanks again.
Mama to 5 rattie boyz, 1 kittie boy, and 1 doggie girl.

Offline Heather

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2006, 02:42:30 PM »
If you have a Walmart Supercenter, they sell chicken quarters for like $4.30 for 10 lbs. Going to a less popular grocery store can land you good deals on canned fish and talk to the butcher about the meat scraps or the nearing expired meats. I have a guy at Dierberg's that sells me stuff that's a few days before the date that they pull out of the cases. It's not REAL cheap, but it's cheaper. I can usually get lamb and veal real cheap that way (I don't agree with lamb or veal production but if the animal is already slaughtered I figure why waste that life?) as they throw it all in the dumpster. It's just a trial an error thing. I bought chicken for 99c/lb and then I found Walmart's deal so next time. Meat markets I have yet to try out. I need to pick up some kidneys and heart there, as well as shop for some turkey necks. I'm also looking at some elk, bison and venison to mix up the meals with. Right now all he gets is chicken, turkey, beef, pork, veal (very rarely), lamb (also rarely as it's a bit fatty) and canned fish (he definately won't eat raw shrimp.. afraid to buy a whole fish and he not eat it). I honestly have fun shopping for him.. and that's weird because I'm a vegetarian , LOL. I also never thought I'd get over the handling of raw meats and organs but really, I only have trouble with the texture of liver anymore. He won't eat it raw, only frozen, so I just cut it up and freeze it, thankfully, so I never have to deal with much of the squishyness. ;D Amos also had yellow tartar covered teeth when I found him and now his teeth are getting snow white and the tartar is going away. Yay for RMBs! :bow:

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2006, 04:45:22 PM »
Heather how long did it take you to get over handling the meat? I still gag... Its the texture plus the smell. I think I could handle one or the other, but not together. I need to get a mask or something lol, IVe pulled my shirt over my nose to help. Not to long ago I actualy went from just gagging to throwing up a little. I have a very narrow kitchen though so all I had to do was turn around and the sink was infront of me  :-\

Offline Heather

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2006, 08:58:39 PM »
It took me about 3 weeks. I found it absolutely repulsive the first week and asked myself many times WHY I was doing this again? Now only the liver bothers me  a bit and I reckon the heart and kidney will too when I aquire them. Chicken hearts and gizzards do not phase me though. As soon as I get the meat, I rinse it off and stick it in a ziploc bag and freeze it. Amos won't chew properly thawed meats so I have to feed him frozen meals. I can't smell anything when it's frozen, so that helps alot.. especially with the liver. I did gag when I had to handle it raw. Once I feed him I run upstairs and wash my hands. Makes it easier.

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2006, 09:27:15 PM »
Hmm, maybe I should start feeding the meals frozen. Its been a couple months, and I still gag.

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2006, 08:25:43 PM »
you cannot feed a whole chicken cooked because you cannot feed cooked bones - so you automatically lose calcium there.

in addition, cooking neutralizes enzymes and breaks down some proteins, and you also lose most of the fat from the skin, etc. in general without getting into absolute specifics and actual numbers, cooking changes the nutritional content of the food, and not in a better direction.
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2006, 10:25:44 PM »
I'm sure Kim meant this when she said "you cannot feed cooked bones" but I'm going to elaborate. Cooked bones splinter and can be sharp, while raw bones are soft and can be crunched down and do not pose a threat as long as chewed. Aside from calcium, raw bones are the best thing there is for teeth cleaning. The old myth that kibble cleans the teeth is simply not true, to clean teeth properly kibble would have to rub at the gum line which it does not. So as far as teeth cleaning, it does nothing because the problem area for gingivitis is the gum line.

Offline Kati33

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2006, 10:31:11 AM »
And better than any form of food or chew toy for cleaning teeth is BRUSHING!! Dogs and cats should have their teeth brushed at least every other day, but most require it every day. They get all the same dental disease as people, and we don't rely on our diet to keep em clean.
Kati33
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Offline rhinecat

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2006, 06:33:30 PM »
Here is a link to an article Ruthiechan posted in the cat reference section...http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=thedangersofarawdiet  It outlines some of the things I am concerned about for this type of diet. 

That article is in *support* of a homemade raw diet, and only expresses concerns about raw *bones* and about inadequate diets. Even on the one serious concern, bones, she acknowledges that problems can be attributed to inappropriately-sized or -stored bones. Even in the title, "dangers" is in quotation marks, making the author's feelings plain.

Raw food recipes from the same site

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Offline Heather

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #63 on: August 11, 2006, 08:31:22 PM »
"However, there are many documented cases of even raw bones causing intestinal impactions or even perforations, which are deadly. At the least, many dogs have fractured their teeth on raw bones; probably either from bones too big for the dog, or from bones left out too long--they dry out and become virtual concrete after as little as a few hours in warm weather."

And from that little blip, I want to express how vitally improtant it is get feed PROPER sized bones and always, always, ALWAYS supervise the dog when eating to make sure the food is being chewed and not gulped. Weight bearing bones should also never be fed, which includes shanks and knuckle bones. THAT is what cracks a dog's teeth. Neck, back and tail bones are the best I can think of at the moment. Those bones are softer and easily crunched. Amos had issues with small buffalo wing type bones. I would feed him about 3 raw buffalo wings/drumsticks and he would have issues with them, as I posted earlier in the thread. I found blood in his stool and bone shards. After I took Kim's advice and gave him larger sized meat meals (and cut out the weight bearing bones), I've never had a problem since. Vets always see dogs on a raw diet when they have serious problems, so that's why most have such terrible opinions about it (not to mention it is not a form of nutrition taught in vet schools). Some people don't research the diet like they should and wonder why they have problems and blame the diet. All I can suggest to anyone thinking about switching is read, read, read. Read everything you can about the diet and what it all entails. Don't be quick to jump into it because if you're feeding it and the proportions are not right, you'll do more harm than good (ie feeding only one type of meat or the improper size rmbs).

Offline rhinecat

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2006, 06:26:34 PM »
But it still points out possible problems that DO accure.

And then talks about how they aren't actually injurious (in the case of bacteria and Toxoplasmosis), or are attributable to owner error (improperly sized, stored, or chosen bones, feeding the wrong things.) I'm not getting why I should be concerned about problems that wouldn't hurt my pet, or that were my fault and could be prevented if I did things correctly.

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Offline rhinecat

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2006, 07:06:25 PM »
For years we have been cooking meats.  If it was so much better for us raw everyone would still be eating it raw.

Um, people aren't dogs. Dogs eat raw meat in the wild, as do their immediate predecessors, grey wolves. Humans benefit from cooked meat because we are susceptible to the bacteria in it, and not really all that equipped to break down raw meat. Dogs don't need the bacteria protection or pre-breakdown that cooking meat provides.

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Offline rhinecat

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2006, 09:33:45 PM »
For years we have been cooking meats.  If it was so much better for us raw everyone would still be eating it raw.

Um, people aren't dogs. Dogs eat raw meat in the wild, as do their immediate predecessors, grey wolves. Humans benefit from cooked meat because we are susceptible to the bacteria in it, and not really all that equipped to break down raw meat. Dogs don't need the bacteria protection or pre-breakdown that cooking meat provides.

But our dogs are not wolves.  Many of our dogs are mutts that are suseptable to a lot more things.  That article does cover things that make feeding the raw to our dogs possibly bad for our dogs and also for us.  I doubt the saliva gets rid of all chances of toxoplasmosis - so there goes pet kisses if pregnant or trying to get pregnant. 

I can understand feeding real meat - balanced cooked diet - but not raw and I'm still waiting for support that it is truely safe for our Domestic animals and for us to have in our houses. 

Dogs are the same species as wolves, so in a very real sense, they are wolves. There are no structural differences which would impact their ability to digest a diet of raw prey, or make them more susceptible to food-borne illness. The article says that while those bacteria may be present in meat, they are not harmful to dogs. Most people have already been exposed to toxoplasmosis and are therefore not at risk, so I don't buy that objection, either, unless the person in question has been tested and therefore shown to definitely be at risk for toxoplasmosis.

If having raw meat in the house isn't safe for humans, I wonder where all the deaths from people who eat meat (a majority of our population!) are being hidden.

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Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2006, 09:47:37 PM »
first, there haven't been plenty of studies showing problems with feeding raw. there have been pitiful few, and most of them were very biased and NOT well designed - in fact, many of them have extremely glaring flaws.

we have mcdonalds, burger king, taco bell - using the "if its so much better for us" doesnt really work. do you know why we made kibble? because we were LAZY and didnt like to make meals for our pets, so manufacturers decided (and boy, did those guys hit a GOLDMINE) to make a pelleted little meal that came in a bag. and voila, people ate it up. and why is kibble bigger in america than any other country, where many people still do feed raw to their pets? because america is quite possibly the laziest country anywhere.

if we did what was best for us, we wouldnt have fast food, soda, snack foods galore, etc. clearly we dont actually care about what is BEST for us, purely about what we want and what is EASIEST. and its pushed onto our pets.

and kat, our dogs are very much still the animals descending from the wolves. what about them do you think has changed? it certainly hasnt been their teeth. it certainly hasnt been their GI tract. it certainly hasnt been their nutritional needs - because we have been selectively breeding for certain OUTWARD characteristics doesnt mean their genotype has changed at all.

if your biggest concern with a raw diet is catching toxoplasmosis, not only is there a severe lacking of the risks, but also a lack of understanding about the diet.

kat, youve made it plenty clear you dont WANT to learn about the diet. again, why post if all you want to do is argue. youre waiting for something that iwll never happen. where is the paper saying its safe for me to eat mcdonalds? where is the paper telling me ANYTHING in life is safe? seems to me every other day what was good last week is now bad. what once caused cancer now protects the heart. seems to me the news tells me every day people die in cars, and we still drive them. papers still tell us that pine shavings and cedar shavings are absolutely fine to use for rats!

life is a risk, plain and simple. personally, i choose to feed my animals a species appropriate diet in an effort to stave off the poor health that results DIRECTLY from feeding an innapropriate, grain-laden, kibble that affects their coats, their teeth, their internal organs, and their mental well-being. i made that decision by thinking for myself - not waiting for someone else to publish a paper - and besides, anyone and everyone can get something published that supports whatever we want to believe if you search hard enough. finding some "professional" that agrees with you doesnt make it more right than anything else. we all take risks that we deem appropriate for ourselves.

no one said raw was what humans should eat. humans are not carnivores. dogs are. cats are. i choose to seek a higher standard than what AAFCO dictates as a good food (that a certain percent of animals didnt DIE or lose more than 20% of their body weight when eating the food for a certain amount of time).

if you dont like the diet, then fine, no skin off my back. this isnt here for us to argue - some people are interested in feeding the diet. there is no absolute proof of ANYTHING in this world, and thats the only true fact. you seek absolute truth, good luck kat - let us know how THAT search goes.
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Offline 1lila1

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2006, 10:48:45 PM »
I have a Q about what "sweetbreads" are.  I've read that they are organs such as the stomach and pancreas.  I posted in another thread about how after researching raw for a few months I don't plan on putting my dog on it at this point in time.  Instead I'm trying out the Timberwolf brand of food.  Although not required, they recommend supplementation with raw meat and "sweet breads".  I can do the supplementation but not an exclusively raw diet.  I give my dog pieces of raw meat while I'm cooking and she loves it.  I have given her raw bones like chicken legs and thighs on occasion and she loves those too.  I'd like to know what the best types of meat to supplement the timberwolf food are.  Should I switch out meat with organs or give a little of both everyday?   Thanks.

Oh, and what about my cat.  I'm switching him to timberwolf too. My cat only has one canine left from when he was hit by a car years ago so would anything he eats have to be cut up?  Will he still get some benefit from that?  He doesn't like cooked meat but haven't offered any raw food to him.  Or should I just stick with canned, which is 1/2 his diet anyway?   
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Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2006, 11:40:54 PM »
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Kim - I'm curious about it.  You say it's so great, so you should be able to support that better

im sorry kat, but there is nothing i could ever tell you that would convince you. im not going to waste my breath - you dont WANT to know benefits of the diet. When did I ever say it was without risk? When did I ever say this is the most PERFECT DIET and every animal will LIVE FOREVER and NEVER BE SICK and no one would ever have any repercussions or any potential negative side effects from the diet? Can you tell me anything in life that comes with those guarantees? Cause if so - sign me up.

The fact is, your mind doesn't seem to be open to the diet. And if you only want negatives, it is all you will see. I've heard this song and dance multiple times before, I used to be on the other side, and I've lived it for years. I've been on the forefront of this argument, considering I am IN the very profession that seeks to discredit this diet, in multiple ways - both as a scientist, someone trained to critically evaluate scientific publications, and as a veterinarian. The facts remain what they are - there isn't a miraculous paper out there that supports the diet, and the facts remain that no matter how good it could potentially be for any animal, there most likely never WILL be such a paper. The research done in animal nutrition is funded by, sponsored by, and performed by, the companies producing the foods. There simply isn't any other interest or funds to perform alternative studies, except at the academic level. And believe me, from what I experienced in my own academic career, as well as those shared by others - those who are willing to open their minds, and then step it up a level as those who are willing to speak OUT as dissidents - well, are few and far between. But being a minority doesn't make you wrong. The papers that are published - well, in fact, at least two came from someone I know personally, as she was one of my instructors in regards to nutrition! Those papers came from my very school - and believe me, I am not the only raw feeder at my alma mater, just perhaps the most vocal. I know technicians, I know researchers, I even know some clinicians at the school, who feed it themselves, encourage it, or at least RESPECT it.

What support do you want? The support against it is riddled with holes. I can give you anecdotal evidence, I can give you evolutionary biology, I can give you the support of zoos world wide.


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- without causing hazards in houses with children or pregnant women.  It might not matter to you, but I have lost one child already, I prefer not to put my pets on a diet that could be hazardous to my future children.

LIFE is hazardous, Kat. you pick and choose what you want to deal with. if you don't want to deal with it, then don't. i am not going to waste my breath trying to convince you that the diet won't kill your kids, because the minute something goes wrong you will immediately blame the diet anyway. Go out and buy a bag of kibble and believe that it's safe, and be on your merry way. Plain and simple - who said you have to have large pieces of meat all over the kitchen? My dogs have been fed in their crates (meat doesn't even touch the floor). I know multiple dogs that were trained to eat their meat on one specific mat or towel that can be washed every day. After my dogs DO eat it on the floor, the floor is bleached and cleaned off. How is this any more of a risk than me cooking meat at home? or having meat in the fridge or on the counter thawing... or having ANYTHING in the house that can potentially grow bacteria?

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You say Kibble is so bad, but cooked meat isn't any good either.
no, kat. i dont believe i ever said those words. i said that i feed raw because it is evolutionarily correct, in my opinion. i feel that feeding this diet allows me to feed a higher quality meat than what is seen in kibble (the 3-4D meats). i said that i feel not feeding a grain-laden diet is more appropriate for our carnivores. however, if anyone has ever asked me, i am more than willing to suggest some very good kibbles i believe are top of the line, that do a wonderful job for our pets. my own cats continue to eat some canned food when i don't have something thawed for them, i use innova EVO occassionally for training treats for my dog, as well as natural balance rolls for training and tracking. i feed innova kibble to my rats in their mix i make. i have never said all kibble is evil and feeding it will kill your dogs - thats just the extremist view you WANT to paint me with.

and no, i never said cooked meat is bad. what i said is, that cooking the meats removes nutritional value from the diet. and that you CANNOT safely feed a cooked bone to an animal (well, i didnt outright say it, i implied it and lin elaborated). I have some very good friends who homecook for their dogs, and more power to them - i have no problem with the diet, and i feel its still leaps and bounds more healthy for a pet than a raw diet. but i also feel that cooking it still removes some intrinisic nutritional value for the pet, and simply put, i dont feel like cooking for my dogs when they do just fine with a raw diet.

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I don't see how having raw meat moved around the kitchen floor etc is a good idea.
are you going to allow your dog near children? are you going to disinfect your dog every single day, or at least their feet, to prevent anything from coming inside? believe me, after seeing as many dogs as i see on a daily basis since my involvement in veterinary medicine (which is nearing a decade now, i believe), my dog is probably CLEANEST after he eats his meals. in fact, and those who have met my dog can back this up, i would dare say my dogs are some of the cleanest ones around - they are well groomed, their nails are immaculate, they have clean ears, their teeth are spotless. when they have dirty meals that mess with their paws, i sit there and they wait patiently while i clean their feet with baby wipes and all natural cleansers, including picking out every last bit from their toenails (since i dont want meat in my bed, and they often eat some big meals right before bed).


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Sorry for presenting a different side to this post.  Being more questioning of this diet.  I take concern for my pets, my family, and my children.

and the implication is, the rest of us dont? just because we have questions and DO NOT COME UP WITH THE SAME ANSWERS AND CONCLUSIONS AS YOU doesn't mean we dont care, haven't thought it out, or are negligent! life is open to interpretation, and i have never said that you as a kibble feeder (or whatever you feed, since i dont believe youve ever said, or if you did i dont recall it) were a horrible terrible person. i have never accused anyone on this board, or anywhere else to my recollection, of being a terrible owner for being a kibble feeder. in fact, some of my best friends continue to feed kibble, and i respect that. what i will not respect is using half-truths, misinformation, and someone putting words in my mouth, to attack the method in which i feed without the full information. ive had concerns, ive had questions - however, i come to the same conclusion that i always have - that i feel this diet offers my pets so many benefits, that it is worth it. i have had a dog break a tooth. i have never had a dog choke, i have never had a dog bloat, i have never had a dog have any other problem besides that. i have never said dogs will not have problems - however, every single DAY that i practice or enjoy the veterinary field, i see dogs that have issues DIRECTLY related to their diet, and those are problems *i do not see* in my own animals - so for that reason alone, i can say it is worth it for me.


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You don't know me - or how my life is.  I don't run a McDonalds, I don't supply their income.
and you just missed the entire point of that.

tell me kat, what kibble are you feeding?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2006, 11:48:20 PM by kim »
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Offline kim

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2006, 11:54:49 PM »
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I have a Q about what "sweetbreads" are.  I've read that they are organs such as the stomach and pancreas.  I posted in another thread about how after researching raw for a few months I don't plan on putting my dog on it at this point in time.  Instead I'm trying out the Timberwolf brand of food.  Although not required, they recommend supplementation with raw meat and "sweet breads".  I can do the supplementation but not an exclusively raw diet.  I give my dog pieces of raw meat while I'm cooking and she loves it.  I have given her raw bones like chicken legs and thighs on occasion and she loves those too.  I'd like to know what the best types of meat to supplement the timberwolf food are.  Should I switch out meat with organs or give a little of both everyday?   Thanks.

Oh, and what about my cat.  I'm switching him to timberwolf too. My cat only has one canine left from when he was hit by a car years ago so would anything he eats have to be cut up?  Will he still get some benefit from that?  He doesn't like cooked meat but haven't offered any raw food to him.  Or should I just stick with canned, which is 1/2 his diet anyway?   

sweetbreads are the pancreas of the animal (i believe they are also southern delicacies, which is where the name may have originated from?), however there is also a second type of sweetbread which is the thymus. however, the thymus is typically only present in young animals, as it regresses as the animal ages, so unless you are eating or feeding young animals, the sweetbreads are most likely pancreas.

i am familiar vaguely with timberworlf, but as others said in the post, the sheer cost alone has turned me off (besides, i only research kibbles because i need to recommend them to others). PHD also makes a kibble that is designed to feed along with raw. i personally did feed half and half for a few months before i realized i might as well just feed all raw.

as for what meats are best to feed - that is up to you. personally it depends on the size of your dog, what you have access to, and what you can afford (and what your dog prefers) - oh, and how often you plan on feeding it. if you jsut give it 1-2 times a week, what you feed really shouldnt matter much since 90% of the diet will be kibble and theoretically "nutritionally balanced" :) if you are feeding it every single day, then you need to ensure that your raw aspect is "balanced" in the sense of bone to meat ration, as well as organs and heart.

whole meals of organs i wouldnt recommend. as lydia can concur, they are extremely prone to giving animals diarrhea :)


as for your cat - missing teeth is no problem. willow had only about 1/3rd of her teeth left when i got her, and she still managed to eat most things - let your cat tell you what he will and will not eat. have you researched about switching cats? (it has its own concerns, since you cannot safely "starve" a cat into eating raw, which some people recommend).

personally no matter what, depending on what your cat eats and why, i may suggest switching over to entirely canned minimally, which i find much healthier in a multitude of ways that i can elaborate on when i am less tired and dont have work in 6 hours :)
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Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2006, 07:06:17 AM »
Kim - I'm curious about it.  You say it's so great, so you should be able to support that better - without causing hazards in houses with children or pregnant women.  It might not matter to you, but I have lost one child already, I prefer not to put my pets on a diet that could be hazardous to my future children.  You say Kibble is so bad, but cooked meat isn't any good either.  I don't see how having raw meat moved around the kitchen floor etc is a good idea. 



Hu?

Do you really think the people that feed raw let their dogs carry raw meat all over the house and leave raw meat residue every where to decay and such?

Do you really think that anyone who feeds raw would do anything to cause danger to their kids or such?


I just can not see how wiping clean the kitchen floor (or their cage, or such) after they eat is any more difficult than cleaning up after my dog eats her kibble.  (one dog licks the floor all around ALL the dog bowls)
I imagine the stuff you carry onto your kitchen floor from walking down the sidewalk in front of your house is far worse than what feeding your dog a raw diet (and wiping where they eat after they are done) would subject any child to.

Add that the simple addition of a child gate would keep any child away from the dog until you had a chance to clean up and the dog was safely done with their meal.  That should be the case even feeding kibble.

I totally can not see how feeding raw puts anyone at any health risk....child or adult.


Sorry for presenting a different side to this post.  Being more questioning of this diet.  I take concern for my pets, my family, and my children. 

I am very offended by that comment!

You are saying that if I feed my pets raw that I do not care about them or my family?



Let me add that I know PEOPLE that prefer their meat pretty much or totally raw.  If the meat is handled properly it isn't a risk.  My brother's entire family eats everything VERY rare.  As in, barely brown the outmost edges.  He even eats raw pieces as he is trimming the meat.  He is a Chef, he knows the risks of food handling, etc.  He is educated, etc.  He feeds this to his kids and his wife.  None have become sick.

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2006, 12:33:27 PM »
I didn't say no one else cares about their families.

Some of the things Kim stretched to etremes I did not say. 

That is how I read it...sorry.

And how I read it has nothing to do with what Kim said.  I was thinking on my own there.


Offline Heather

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2006, 12:36:05 PM »
Quick question Kim! If the dog CAN handle organ meals can they be fed? Is the only concern diarrhea? Amos is able to handle the liver once weekly as a meal, though it is slightly smaller than his RMB meals which equal 1/4 lb. And how should heart be fed? It's classified as a muscle and offal.. so nutritionally is it to be treated like liver/kidneys/etc or like a lean meat?

Offline Kati33

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Re: Raw Diet
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2006, 07:12:22 PM »
Kat- feeding your dog raw will not make you any more susceptible to toxo than anything else in your life. In fact, since you own cats- you have probably already been exposed and have titers to it. Have it checked by your doctor if you are that worried. And here is a good link with some more info on toxo- you are more at risk getting it from eating undercooked meat yourself and gardening- Link

As far as the raw feeding goes- I've researched it and don't think its the best option for me or my pets right now. But I've come a long way in what I do feed my dogs- I make the effort to get a better brand of kibble and also feed my dogs homecooked. No, it doesn't have the same nutrients as raw, but when I cook meat I use the water I cook in to make their grains (I do add grains to my diet, it works for my dogs) and I supplement the calcium using egg shells. And what I cook for my dogs is leaps and bounds better than the kibbles that have so many added chemicals. And what is most important to me- my dogs are doing well on the diet I'm feeding now. Asher's epilepsy is easier to control and the much smaller amount of sodium in my cooked diet vs kibble has allowed me to lower the dose of one of her meds. Each dog does differently on different diets, some dogs can't tolerate grains, others can't eat raw, I've found a combo that works for my dogs.
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