Author Topic: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?  (Read 8676 times)

Offline ~Lin

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Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« on: August 09, 2006, 04:00:21 AM »
I am waiting to hear back if I was approved to be a foster home for the Italian Greyhound rescue near me. For those not familiar with IGs, they are 5-15 lbs on average and a toy breed. Not related at all to the greyhound. I was wondering if small dogs can eat raw meaty bones too? Like, are their mouths big enough/jaws strong enough? I have been unable to get my cats to eat prey style raw meat, so I use the ground raw meat for them still. Ive been feeding my GSD various RMBs like chicken wings, pork necks, etc. I was wondering if an IG can eat them too. The whole basis of the raw diet, is how its evolutionarily correct for dogs as a species.. But toy breeds don't really fit in with natural evolution?

Offline dragynflye

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 01:20:25 PM »
i was fostering a three pound chimutt at one point.  she was eating raw like a champ!  had no problems with chicken wings, backs, necks (i got those just for her, too small for any one else).  she also got basically the same things as the big kids, just less and it took her waaaaaay longer to eat!  have you invested in a good pair of kitched shears yet?  'cause those things are a life saver!  i'd basically just snip things down to a more appropriate size!

Offline elegy

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 02:58:54 PM »
i know several people who raw feed small dogs like chihuahuas and papillons. there's no reason an IG can't eat raw too if given appropriately sized portions.

Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2006, 03:12:22 PM »
I would say check with the group you are fostering for.  I know personally if I adopted a dog that had been in foster for Xmonths and wasn't used to any type of food I can buy at any pet store I would be very irritated at having to buy raw for that one pet and figure out how to swtich them from something I do not know about, or have to research quickly and find places to buy the stuff. 

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2006, 08:44:47 PM »
^^ I do not feed only raw. The Rescue knows that I feed a combination of kibble, canned, and raw. And if they have a problem with me feeding only the best quality kibble and canned, well then thats just too bad.

Also, the food I buy is not available at "pet stores" you really need to go to an actual feed store to get good quality food. And a raw diet, is easier to find than a good dog food seeing as you can pick it up with the rest of your groceries.

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2006, 10:43:50 PM »
Quote
I would say check with the group you are fostering for.  I know personally if I adopted a dog that had been in foster for Xmonths and wasn't used to any type of food I can buy at any pet store I would be very irritated at having to buy raw for that one pet and figure out how to swtich them from something I do not know about, or have to research quickly and find places to buy the stuff.

alternatively, many rescues can and are annoyed at owners who think that feeding high quality foods, doing research, paying the money and doing the legwork to find the foods, is a waste of time. it works both ways - if you dont like it, then dont adopt from them. personally every rescue ive ever fostered, etc - has been completely raw fed. thats MY perogative. i have to pay for the food, and thats what i will pay for.
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Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2006, 10:47:08 PM »
But I thought the rescue still had some say on what the dogs should be feeding.  With feeding all raw to fosters are you supplying the info to the owners?  Is it posted with the animal that is up for adoption that that is what they need to be fed?

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2006, 10:52:14 PM »
Kat, why do you enter the raw meat threads? We know you dont believe in raw diet, so why bother coming in to the threads only to start controversy?

edit: As for the dogs Ive fostered, yes Ive provided the adoptive owners with information about what I was feeding. I typed up a document and then emailed it to them, of a brief description on how to read an ingredient label. I also give them a small sample of what I had been feeding and telling them exactly where they can purchase the same brand. No, the rescues/shelters generaly dont make any big deal about what you feed. YOU are buying the food, not them. As long as the animal is healthy and well taken care of, they dont care what diet your using. Your doing them a great favour by taking in this animal, working with it and feeding it. They arent going to demand you feed X brand of food. As far as the humane society in my city, the employees dont even know anything about nutrition. They have told me that Science Diet was the best pet food there is, and didnt care to learn why its really not.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 11:16:59 PM by ~Lin »

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 09:37:58 AM »
I agree - you don't agree with feeding raw and you have made it clear multiple times -  why post just to disagree?
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Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 10:02:08 AM »
and yes, little dogs can eat RMB's - not only do i raw feed my fosters, but i rawfeed my visiting guest dogs :) no kibble in MY household :)

WARNING RAWFEEDINGPICS FOLLOW..


********


**********



****************



you were warned :)








duke is a 10 lb min pin. and i believe that was his first raw meal, ever :)

while across the room that evening, this is what you would have seen.
bowie is thinking watson is a pretttttttty daring cat.

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Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2006, 10:08:39 AM »
I agree - you don't agree with feeding raw and you have made it clear multiple times -  why post just to disagree?


I am trying to learn.  Asking questions is one way to learn.  You are posting on a public forum and I thought having a different opinion was allowed.  Maybe I'm not the only one here who does not understand the raw diet?  Often if one person has a question, so does someone else who is lurking rather than asking.

I understand that shelters are not the ones paying for the food for an animal once they are in foster care, but they are responsible for the animal and the adoption of the animal.  I had asked if they were informed that a raw diet is being fed?  Do people know before the animals you fostered are inquired about that your method of feeding is not what most people are used to doing for a pet? 

If you think raw diet is great, that is fine.  I'm still waiting for a reason to verify that in present day, not fresh from the bone meat, is safe, and how you can be sure of that - but it doesn't seem to be a question anyone is able or willing to answer.  I understand in the wild k-9's and felines ate meat.  BUT they killed it and ate it, not waited a week or so and then ate it.  It was fresh. 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 10:16:12 AM by *Kat* »

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2006, 10:22:21 AM »
Some wild pics there kim :) I will def feed the fosters raw too then. Theres 2 reasons why I'm not on a pure raw diet yet... One is because I'm still having issues keeping my OWN diet down while feeding the crew, and 2 theres the convience of kibble for my pets when I go out of town. For the dog, its easier to bring kibble with me, and for the cats I can leave kibble in a gravity feeder if I need to be gone for 2-3 days. But lately Ive been feeding 90% raw and canned, and 10% kibble. I wish I could just convince my cats that prey style meat is good, because the ground meat is the hardest for me to handle feeding.

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2006, 10:34:08 AM »
what difference does fresh v. frozen meat make to you? if anything, fresh meat is one of the few things i REALLY don't think I would feed (and I have the option too - I have a source of fresh pasture-raised beef, calves, and pig that the woman literally slaughters in her backyard or in the field and will ship out to you on ice). THAT is the meat I am concerned about being unclean and full of parasites. The only fresh food I would feed is something I raised myself - otherwise I want it to have gone through a USDA slaughterhouse and inspected to at least SOME degree. I know if it made it into a slaughterhouse in some areas, the pork will be essentially free of trichinosis or pseudorabies (Since we inspect for it). I know if it goes to a slaughterhouse, an animal that died unnaturally will not be, or should not be, approved for human consumption. I know if its lungs were full of abscesses, if it's liver had many masses, or it's muscle meat was riddled with parasites, the meat will not be approved for human consumption (and ironically, it will go to be fed to dogs and cats in kibble!). I have no such assumption or assurances with Joe Farmer in Pennsyltucky who kills Bessie out in the back pasture - or worse yet, Bessie just died out there and he slaughters her 10 hours after she's been sitting there.

adult cats are the HARDEST thing to transition - my cats won't eat every meat in RMB form, and won't eat every meat in ground form, either - in fact they are very picky and tend not to want to eat things repeatedly (ie no beef two meals in a row) - unlike my dogs. They have certain favorites though, which include beef heart and whole rabbits, so that's always a plus. and yes, thats why watson is licking up rabbit juice from that plate and dared enter bowie's realm -- rabbit is THAT YUMMY.

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Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2006, 10:36:10 AM »
and no, i have never hid what i fed to anyone - its on my adoption and foster applications that i feed, and always intend to feed, raw.
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2006, 10:40:52 AM »
Off topic, but Watson does really look like my Lorelai. Shes going to the vet this afternoon at 1:30... Her chin is hairless and rubbed raw to bleeding in 2 spots. A couple months back she had feline acne that I treated with 10% benzoyl peroxide gel per vet instructions.. It cleared up, but now its back or something else is going on. Also she has a hairless patch on her forehead thats been hairless for WEEKS. I dont know if its related, it started much smaller and looked like she skinned it or something in a tiny area and it just expanded. Its not ringworm though, and she IS starting to grow hair back there finaly... Because I love this picture, I'll share this one...

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2006, 10:44:01 AM »
is lorelai the new kitty you just got, or one of your other ones?

sounds a lot like allergies in cats...
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2006, 10:46:46 AM »
Lorelai is the new kitty, I adopted her around mid June I think. She had the feline acne going on pretty bad when she arrived, and also had an upper respiratory infection with eye involvment upon arrival so she saw my vet the day after I got her. The original rescue that took her in DID call her a Birman, but the main rescue changed it to siamese/balinese mix. So Ive been calling her a Birman after talking to you, and talking to her foster mom who also called her a Birman. (not that her breed has anything to do with the ongoing conversation, but since we've discussed it  ;D )

Edit: I forgot to add, that since I got her into my vets office so fast, they didnt have me seeing my usual vet but instead one of her partners. I wasnt as impressed with him as I am with my usual vet, so when I scheduled todays appointment I requested her.

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2006, 10:56:59 AM »

I understand that shelters are not the ones paying for the food for an animal once they are in foster care, but they are responsible for the animal and the adoption of the animal.  I had asked if they were informed that a raw diet is being fed?  Do people know before the animals you fostered are inquired about that your method of feeding is not what most people are used to doing for a pet? 

Well, I know that when I picked up my foster girl last night (from the humane society) no one asked me what I planned on feeding her.  They know I have dogs that look to be healthy and figure I will provide the foster dog with comparable food.  (I do not feed raw right now, but would like to)

Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2006, 11:00:38 AM »
yeah trub - some shelters are so desperate to get animals into foster care, they could care less what you feed an animal.

personally i had a client yesterday who we were discussing problems in her dog, etc - and she pulled me aside in the waiting room to whisper -- i *also* feed him people food, could that be it? she just about dropped dead when i said absolutely NOT, that i didnt want her to stop feeding her dog people food :) 
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Offline kim

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2006, 11:02:23 AM »
and yeah lin, i still think shes a birman.

watson says he is offended that someone expects him to actually kill something to eat it. he would like you to place it by his face and back away quickly so he can eat without moving, thankyouverymuch.

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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2006, 11:08:17 AM »
Ive always fed my dogs table scraps, in reasonable amounts. Nothing cleans by dishes before the dishwasher like my Tessa!!! When I'm done eating macaroni and cheese and theres real cheese stuck to the walls of the bowl, Tessa does my prescrubbing before I stick it in the dishwasher. I also often eat pasta dishes from lean cuisine (I'm veggie, so the majority of my diet is carbs...) and I always let Tessa lick the leftover sauce before I toss the plastic dish. If I'm out at a restaurant and ordering something that usualy comes with meat, I just ask them to package up the meat for me and I bring it home for her and the cats. On holidays, I always ask to bring home some meat scraps for the pets. I see nothing wrong with feeding "people" food. If your feeding purely table scraps in a non balanced matter, then yes theres a problem... On another forum (non pet) someone got very rude with me for feeding table scraps, saying how wrong it is. But the same person feeds her dog Ol Roy from walmart and I couldnt for the life of me get her to understand why thats bad.

And since this is turning into a kitty thread too, more pics :D The first one was shortly after I got her, so you can see the feline acne issue going on, her chin is quite dark (it had minimal hair and was covered in blackheads)


And I love this picture... My bed is a couple inches from the wall, to allow the side of the comforter to fit down. Lorelai thought it was the perfect place to *hang* out.


Edited to Add: Just got back from the vet. The forehead thing on Lorelai is very suspicious and looks fungal under a blacklight, so she is on "program" one giant pill with food today, and one giant pill with food in 2 weeks. As for her chin, its completely unrelated to the forehead. It *could* be an allergy, so for the time being Lorelai is strictly on canned rabbit. Its also looking pretty nasty, so I was given pyoben gel for it topicaly and cefa-drops oraly.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 02:38:54 PM by ~Lin »

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2006, 02:35:04 PM »
Kim, I think that Min Pin makes that raw stuff look like it is very enjoyable....

(if you like raw stuff, I myself like my meats cooked)


Offline elegy

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2006, 02:54:55 PM »
catzilla's my only cat who will have anything to do with raw. the kitten we're teaching from the very beginning :)



my mom had one of her cats to the vet several weeks ago and the vet suggested she add raw meaty bones to their diet for teeth-cleaning reasons. i was rather surprised and quite happy to hear that.

Offline *Kat*

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2006, 04:38:17 PM »
How often do you wash your kitchen floors with this diet, and it does not seem like an option if there are small children in the house - how is that handled?

Offline elle

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Re: Raw Meaty Bones and Tiny Dogs?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2006, 05:11:21 PM »
yay raw kitty thread... my kittens joined the wonderful world of bone crunching at 8 weeks...


toke trying to attract the lady cats by licking his meat sexy-like


kiwi chowing down on rabbit pieces


they really are good carnivores. there is practically nothing they won't eat, except chicken thighs, apparently!?! they love rabbit (i can get whole, quartered rabbit for $3/lb at the foodstore here). they love any type of heart -- beef, turkey, chicken -- love to chew meat off lab stew bones. toke's favorite meat seems to be pork... he goes nuts for pork roasts and ribs. they both love lamb, too. they eat whole prey very well so far (whole chickens, cornish game hens, rabbits). pretty soon we're going to be trying whole-whole prey (feathers, fur, etc)...



Kat - I clean the kitchen floor off every time they eat. Kiwi refuses to eat from bowls and will drag anything i put down out of the bowl.  I use cleaner/paper towels to clean up where they eat after every meal (really not a big deal, squirt squirt, wipe) and i swiffer the whole kitchen about once a week. If you have small children in the house, I would simply reccomend the same thing I would say for any diet -- when the pet is eating, keep the child away. Many many animals can be protective of food, in no case should small children be left alone with an animal eating ANYTHING. If you are careful to keep your kid supervised and teach them to leave the animal alone when eating, it shouldn't be a problem to clean up before the child plays in that area.

And, as a microbiologist, I really do think the chance of normal, healthy, adults getting sick from raw meat is much less than common hype makes it out to be. If you are immunocompromised in anyway, you might want to consult with your doctor about the risks raw meat poses to you. But, for the rest of us, as long as you don't let meat sit out for days and then eat it, the risk is quite small... just having it around in your house is highly unlikely it will pose a real danger to you.